Prophecy Alert: "Blood Moon Over America" 1/19-21/ 2019

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Harvest 1874

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The reference was probably to the idea that a lot of prophecy was fulfilled in AD70.

There were quite a few prophecies which were fulfilled at the beginning of the age, and so too many have seen their fulfillment in and during the intervening time since, and still yet there are some which have not been fulfilled, but which are still future.

This was the point we were trying to get across, our preterist friends would have us believe everything was fulfilled in the past while our futurist friends say everything is still future. We prefer the idea that prophecy has been in the process of fulfillment all throughout the Gospel age, with many prophecies yet to be fulfilled.
 

farouk

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There were quite a few prophecies which were fulfilled at the beginning of the age, and so too many have seen their fulfillment in and during the intervening time since, and still yet there are some which have not been fulfilled, but which are still future.

This was the point we were trying to get across, our preterist friends would have us believe everything was fulfilled in the past while our futurist friends say everything is still future. We prefer the idea that prophecy has been in the process of fulfillment all throughout the Gospel age, with many prophecies yet to be fulfilled.
I do tend to the literalist approach unless there are very, very strong reasons why not.
 
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Taken

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Gotta keep a sharp eye on these guys, Harvest. They also keep changing "there will be great tribulation" to try to make it a specific event they call "THE Great Tribulation."

I don't care to go shopping...but read in Scripture we will have new clothes...
just taking the edge off the Tribulation :)

God Bless,
Taken
 

Jay Ross

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Jesus did tell those around him that they knew how to interpret the signs in the sky as an indication of what the weather would do, but they did not know how to interpret the signs of the unfolding times.

I wonder is this is also true for the blood red moons.
 

Naomi25

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And here you go again. Remember figurative language with a literal meaning is literal.

To this very day we call meteors in the atmosphere shooting stars.

And we all know what a rock star means literally.

You know what they say about someone who tries the same thing over and over and keeps failing? That is what you're doing.

In your thinking with your constant calling things figurative, who decides what the figurative means? Hundred people that have 150 different opinions, with none of them relevant or plausible.
Here's the thing. For Idealists, it's fully within our hermeneutical principles to, as you say, have figurative language with literal meanings. In fact, it happens more than you think. It's also in our wheelhouse to go strictly literal if the text demands it, as it often does.
The problem with Dispensational interpretation that I'm trying to point out, is that they are not consistant. They demand a literal hermenuetic, but don't follow through. They say that there are times it's okay to do symbolism, but Revelation always tells you when. But then there are times when it doesn't, and they still fall back on symbolism, because it clearly can't be literal.
This is my big drive, what i'm really trying to highlight, because it's a serious problem. And it should be a serious problem for you to, as someone who follows this system. Do you want to follow a system that is wildly inconsistent?
And it's not just a problem of "deciding who calls what figurative", its about the very basis of HOW people make that determination. If you cannot have an interpretive system that leads you true, then you'll wobble off course.

That is what I'm doing. Those verses are still in the Bible and they still have to have meaning.

So you say, but consistently you don't present bible verses to support your position. Shouldn't that be a priority?

The rapture is unknown but the second coming is exactly 7 years later.

With everything that happens during the Tribulation Period there's no way anybody with any kind of biblical knowledge would not know what's coming when.

And the earth is not destroyed it the second coming. You're denying the MK or being amillennialist.
See...you say you are biblically literal, but then this.
Let's see:

Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming (ἔρχομαι - erchomai) on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. -Matthew 24:29–31

But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. -Matthew 24:36–37

Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming (ἔρχομαι - erchomai), he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. -Matthew 24:42–44

When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats...
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.-Matthew 25:31–32, 46


For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming (παρουσία - parousia) of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. -1 Thessalonians 4:15–17

Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. -1 Thessalonians 5:1–2

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed. -2 Peter 3:10

Okay, what am I trying to say with these verses? In the Matthew verses, we can see that even though the "coming" of Christ is referred to as "erchomai", we can see from the context that the passage is still talking about the 'Rapture'. We know this because the text says that at this 'erchomai' the elect will be gathered to Christ at the blast of a trumpet. The text then goes on to clearly say that NO MAN can know the day or hour of this event, and uses the "thief" description we are familiar with. Christ then moves on, in the same Discourse that describes his 'coming' and the 'Rapture', and talks about how, when he "comes", he will sit on his judgement throne. Nowhere does it say that this is a different coming.

We can also connect all this to Christ's "coming" (parousia) in 1 Thess 4, which is undoubtably a Rapture passage. The similarities between it and the Olivet Discourse are unmistakable, and it goes on to use the "come like a thief in the night" description right after the description of the event itself. The passage also calls this event "the day of the Lord".

Which brings us to 2 Peter 3, which helps tie it all together. Peter uses the "thief" label, calls it "the day of the Lord" and also tells us that the heavens will pass away in a roar and be dissolved. All in all, this passage of cosmic destruction links "the day of the Lord" to the Rapture, and to the judgement seat. I could loop in 1 Cor 15 to show that the Rapture is the end of death, which, Paul tells us, is "the end".

Basically...none of the things you just said can be biblically supported. All the scriptures Dispensationalists usually use to support their case, in point of fact, only link them all together as a single event.
 
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Acolyte

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@Taken
1 Thessalonians 5:4
Ezekiel 13:18

Ezekiel 13:18-And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of My people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?

The word ‘pillows’ in Hebrew means, "a covering for secrecy." (Strong’s #3704 & #3680)

The word ‘armholes’ in Hebrew means, "a joint of the hand."(Strong’s #679)

The word ‘kerchiefs’ in Hebrew means, "a veil as spread out."(Strong’s #4555)

Ezekiel 13:20
Wherefore thus saith the LordGod; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
KJV

I guess the other translations don't use these words? One thing is certain, He is coming! Put on your GOSPEL ARMOR! In the twinkling of an eye we will be changed. AMEN!
BLESSINGS!
 
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Taken

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@Taken
1 Thessalonians 5:4
Ezekiel 13:18

Ezekiel 13:18-And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of My people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?

The word ‘pillows’ in Hebrew means, "a covering for secrecy." (Strong’s #3704 & #3680)

The word ‘armholes’ in Hebrew means, "a joint of the hand."(Strong’s #679)

The word ‘kerchiefs’ in Hebrew means, "a veil as spread out."(Strong’s #4555)

Ezekiel 13:20
Wherefore thus saith the LordGod; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
KJV

I guess the other translations don't use these words? One thing is certain, He is coming! Put on your GOSPEL ARMOR! In the twinkling of an eye we will be changed. AMEN!
BLESSINGS!

The Lord is going to call His church up to Him, no doubt.

But then there is, all of Israel, to be saved after the Church.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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farouk

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@Taken
1 Thessalonians 5:4
Ezekiel 13:18

Ezekiel 13:18-And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of My people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?

The word ‘pillows’ in Hebrew means, "a covering for secrecy." (Strong’s #3704 & #3680)

The word ‘armholes’ in Hebrew means, "a joint of the hand."(Strong’s #679)

The word ‘kerchiefs’ in Hebrew means, "a veil as spread out."(Strong’s #4555)

Ezekiel 13:20
Wherefore thus saith the LordGod; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
KJV

I guess the other translations don't use these words? One thing is certain, He is coming! Put on your GOSPEL ARMOR! In the twinkling of an eye we will be changed. AMEN!
BLESSINGS!
Very interesting Scripture words there; and searching applications...

Sometimes things hidden refer to divine mystery revealed in Scripture; but sometimes also - as you rightly point out - they refer to hiding from scrutiny what should be made plain.

Interesting! :)
 
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CoreIssue

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Here's the thing. For Idealists, it's fully within our hermeneutical principles to, as you say, have figurative language with literal meanings. In fact, it happens more than you think. It's also in our wheelhouse to go strictly literal if the text demands it, as it often does.
The problem with Dispensational interpretation that I'm trying to point out, is that they are not consistant. They demand a literal hermenuetic, but don't follow through. They say that there are times it's okay to do symbolism, but Revelation always tells you when. But then there are times when it doesn't, and they still fall back on symbolism, because it clearly can't be literal.
This is my big drive, what i'm really trying to highlight, because it's a serious problem. And it should be a serious problem for you to, as someone who follows this system. Do you want to follow a system that is wildly inconsistent?
And it's not just a problem of "deciding who calls what figurative", its about the very basis of HOW people make that determination. If you cannot have an interpretive system that leads you true, then you'll wobble off course.




So you say, but consistently you don't present bible verses to support your position. Shouldn't that be a priority?


See...you say you are biblically literal, but then this.
Let's see:

Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming (ἔρχομαι - erchomai) on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. -Matthew 24:29–31

But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. -Matthew 24:36–37

Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming (ἔρχομαι - erchomai), he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. -Matthew 24:42–44

When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats...
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.-Matthew 25:31–32, 46


For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming (παρουσία - parousia) of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. -1 Thessalonians 4:15–17

Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. -1 Thessalonians 5:1–2

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed. -2 Peter 3:10

Okay, what am I trying to say with these verses? In the Matthew verses, we can see that even though the "coming" of Christ is referred to as "erchomai", we can see from the context that the passage is still talking about the 'Rapture'. We know this because the text says that at this 'erchomai' the elect will be gathered to Christ at the blast of a trumpet. The text then goes on to clearly say that NO MAN can know the day or hour of this event, and uses the "thief" description we are familiar with. Christ then moves on, in the same Discourse that describes his 'coming' and the 'Rapture', and talks about how, when he "comes", he will sit on his judgement throne. Nowhere does it say that this is a different coming.

We can also connect all this to Christ's "coming" (parousia) in 1 Thess 4, which is undoubtably a Rapture passage. The similarities between it and the Olivet Discourse are unmistakable, and it goes on to use the "come like a thief in the night" description right after the description of the event itself. The passage also calls this event "the day of the Lord".

Which brings us to 2 Peter 3, which helps tie it all together. Peter uses the "thief" label, calls it "the day of the Lord" and also tells us that the heavens will pass away in a roar and be dissolved. All in all, this passage of cosmic destruction links "the day of the Lord" to the Rapture, and to the judgement seat. I could loop in 1 Cor 15 to show that the Rapture is the end of death, which, Paul tells us, is "the end".

Basically...none of the things you just said can be biblically supported. All the scriptures Dispensationalists usually use to support their case, in point of fact, only link them all together as a single event.

All you're doing is proving you make the Bible say what you want to hear.
 

Helen

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Do no Pastor 'out there' teach anymore that the Bible is a spiritual Book? Are all modern pastors literalists? :eek:

The sun is a type of the Godhead.
The moon is a type of the Church - reflecting God's light into the dark world.

"The moon /Church turning to blood" in the last times, is a picture meaning that the blood of the Church will be flowing.., before the Great and Wonderful Day of The Lord!

It's a spiritual Book, people.
 

CoreIssue

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Do no Pastor 'out there' teach anymore that the Bible is a spiritual Book? Are all modern pastors literalists? :eek:

The sun is a type of the Godhead.
The moon is a type of the Church - reflecting God's light into the dark world.

"The moon /Church turning to blood" in the last times, is a picture meaning that the blood of the Church will be flowing.., before the Great and Wonderful Day of The Lord!

It's a spiritual Book, people.

The sun is Jacob, the moon Rachel and the 12 stars the 12 tribes of Israel. The woman is Israel.

In eternity there is no sun or moon or stars in the sky. It is eternal light, as it was in Genesis 1:1 before Satan rebelled and led the war in heaven.

By the time of the red moon in Revelation the church has long been raptured.

It is a picture Israel is back as covenant nation and will fulfill the Abraham it covenant and Jesus will sit on the throne to fulfill the Davidic covenant.

Calling God the sun is ancient paganism which the early Catholic Church practiced.
 

Helen

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The sun is Jacob, the moon Rachel and the 12 stars the 12 tribes of Israel. The woman is Israel.

In eternity there is no sun or moon or stars in the sky. It is eternal light, as it was in Genesis 1:1 before Satan rebelled and led the war in heaven.

By the time of the red moon in Revelation the church has long been raptured.

It is a picture Israel is back as covenant nation and will fulfill the Abraham it covenant and Jesus will sit on the throne to fulfill the Davidic covenant.

Calling God the sun is ancient paganism which the early Catholic Church practiced.

Who spat in your oatmeal this morning!

Did you miss where I said "A TYPE OF"... the same as the wind is a "type of " the Spirit.
Jacob is not the sun..the dream was showing as a TYPE OF...

Because you are a legalist you will say both Jacob and God can't be a type of....yet The Rock, The Bread, The Door, etc etc are all symbols and types of Jesus Christ. etc etc

...enjoy you day...
 

CoreIssue

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Who spat in your oatmeal this morning!

Did you miss where I said "A TYPE OF"... the same as the wind is a "type of " the Spirit.
Jacob is not the sun..the dream was showing as a TYPE OF...

Because you are a legalist you will say both Jacob and God can't be a type of....yet The Rock, The Bread, The Door, etc etc are all symbols and types of Jesus Christ. etc etc

...enjoy you day...

The sun never is referred to as God the Bible in any manner.

So you can't throw around your imaginations as if they have any reality.

I am a literalists, not a legalist. You don't know the difference?
 

CoreIssue

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What date was did this occur in your view? Specific or general approximation. Thanks!
1260 days until the second coming.
1290 days until the AD is torn down.
1334 days until the cleansing in rededication of the Temple is complete.

Also during this time the remnants of those who took the mark of the beast will be hunted down and killed and the Jews will be re-assigned to the appropriate tribes after being gathered back to Israel.

Daniel 12:11-12 New International Version (NIV)
11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.
 

Helen

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The sun never is referred to as God the Bible in any manner.

Oh no?!!! :eek:
Well, why would I argue with you..."you know it all."

Psa 84:11 "For the Lord God is a sun and shield: the Lord will give grace and glory: no good thing will He withhold from them that walk uprightly."
Can you say that He isn't our shield either?


Mal 4:2 " But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall."
SUN not Son. Unless you do not believe that God and Jesus are ONE?

2 Cor 4:6 "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

Rev 1:16
"And He had in His right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and His countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength."

But no doubt being a literalist you are unable to see these types and symbols.

Never mind.
 
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CoreIssue

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Oh no?!!! :eek:
Well, why would I argue with you..."you know it all."

Psa 84:11 "For the Lord God is a sun and shield: the Lord will give grace and glory: no good thing will He withhold from them that walk uprightly."
Can you say that He isn't our shield either?


Mal 4:2 " But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall."
SUN not Son. Unless you do not believe that God and Jesus are ONE?

2 Cor 4:6 "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

Rev 1:16
"And He had in His right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and His countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength."

But no doubt being a literalist you are unable to see these types and symbols.

Never mind.

Does not say the sun is God, as you did, a sun meaning he provides light.
Big difference.

Malachi 4:2 New International Version (NIV)
2 But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its rays. And you will go out and frolic like well-fed calves.

Its rays, not his rays.

2 Cor 4:6 Does not even imply God is the sun.

Rev 1:16 Shone like the sun, not was the sun.
Revelation 1:16 New International Version (NIV)
16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

The sun is a type of the Godhead.
The moon is a type of the Church - reflecting God's light into the dark world.

How you applied it in Revelation is flat-out false.

You failed to take the full image into account and cross-reference it with similar statements in the Old Testament.

The simplest proof you are wrong is the fact the woman gave birth to Jesus which the church most assuredly did not. But the lineage of Jacob most assuredly did.

My having studied and learned more than you is not my fault, it is yours.