Prophecy Alert: "The Fig Tree Generation"

[farouk]

2 Peter 3:3-4

Solemn verses and warnings indeed.

 

[Jay Ross]

I see nothing in your references that offers a time frame, btw, I don't need to "protect" my POV, it stands well on its own. Remember, when you point a finger at someone else there are always three pointing back at you.

That is okay, but your understanding of who the people are that fulfils the prophecies cannot be found in the scriptures either. So from that perspective, the Bible does not support your theories either. It is just your opinion.

Perhaps you should also consider your finger pointing wisdom as well.

Now have a good day now.

 

[Keraz]

Circumcision made one a physical Jew and a physical member of Israel. If not circumcised on the eighth day, they were cut off and remained gentiles.

Obviously you haven't bothered to read my post #55, where I show that since Jesus came, those 'cut off' are ones who refuse to believe in Him.
Paul is unequivocal; physical circumcision now counts for nothing. Galatians 5:2-4

 

[Dave L]

Obviously you haven't bothered to read my post #55, where I show that since Jesus came, those 'cut off' are ones who refuse to believe in Him.
Paul is unequivocal; physical circumcision now counts for nothing. Galatians 5:2-4

Cut off in the OT happened as a result of not being circumcised. This means since Jesus abolished circumcision, there are no biblical Jews or Israel today apart from the Church and Christ.

 

[Trekson]

Circumcision made one a physical Jew and a physical member of Israel. If not circumcised on the eighth day, they were cut off and remained gentiles.

Well, if that's what you want to believe, more power to you.

 

[Trekson]

That is okay, but your understanding of who the people are that fulfils the prophecies cannot be found in the scriptures either. So from that perspective, the Bible does not support your theories either. It is just your opinion.

Perhaps you should also consider your finger pointing wisdom as well.

Now have a good day now.

What do you think my "understanding" is and stop playing games, if have a theory to enlighten us all with, o benevolent one, just spit it out.

 

[Dave L]

Well, if that's what you want to believe, more power to you.

This is OT history and fact.

 

[Naomi25]

I ask Him and He answers and that is how I know Him, and there are a lot of other things that few know of, so I know I a min the right place. To put it as Paul put it,

Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

there is no ten question of the bible to enter in to heaven, and there are many to whom can quote it in 5 different languages to whom He will say, I never knew you".

It seems a little strange to me that you are using a bible verse to prove you don't need to use the bible to know God. Also...kinda using this verse out of context.
I do agree that knowing scripture will not ultimately save you...I've never claimed it does. All I'm saying is that God gave us his word for a very good reason, and thus it's important to use it in conjuction with the Holy Spirit. Not using what God has given us is not wise, I would suggest.

 

[Naomi25]

You are the one telling the story now.

The reference to a brothel was with respect to where I lived and if the waves get up the asset for the reason for the popularity of that areas could soon be washed away.

The watershed I was referring to was out western Queensland near Eulo to highlight that the ranges separating river systems in that region are not very high, if you know what I mean.

I'm telling the story? Hardly. And...I wonder if you realise your second sentence doesn't make sense...at all. As in, I see the individual words, but together they don't actually make a sensible sentence.
And honestly, if you're going to use words like brothel and watershed to describe land features, you need to be absolutely sure the person you're talking to already knows those phrases in reference to what you're talking about or the specific areas in question. Because otherwise people are just going to think you're slightly odd and come away from a conversation with you confused.

 

[Naomi25]

2 Peter 3:3-4

Except I'm not saying that Christ is not coming again. All I'm saying is that people who point to those particular signs in Matt 24 as "his return is now!" signs, miss the obvious: Christ himself tells us that these signs will be "but the beginning of birthpangs", rather than signs of his imminent arrival, and that these signs are, biblically and historically, proven to be a regulars in the interadvental period. That makes any such 'sounding the warning' of his impending return at any second based on these particular signs dishonest. These signs were present when the Disciples were alive, they were present in the Dark Ages, and the time of the Reformation, and they are present now. The only honest thing we can, biblically, say about these signs is that, just as labor pains, they grow in intensity and frequency. But even then it is impossible to announce Christ's coming within the next 'little bit' with any certainty, as we have no idea how bad these birth pangs are going to get.

 

[Jeff Wiebe]

He will come like a thief in the night. Nobody knows when or can predict when, so why bother even trying. Just be ready.

 

[Jay Ross]

What do you think my "understanding" is and stop playing games, if have a theory to enlighten us all with, o benevolent one, just spit it out.

I have been but you have been bagging what I have written.

1. The first thing that you have to accept is, that the beasts of Books of Daniel and Revelation, are spiritual heavenly entities, i.e. wicked fallen demonic heavenly hosts, that is fallen angels that have sided with Satan in Heaven.

2. That the beasts are manifested within the sea of humanity and that the manifestation rise up out of the sea and can be observed by the respective characteristics that the manifestations of the beast exhibit.

3. That the Armageddon event will occur around 25 years into our future when the there will be judgement against the fallen heavenly hosts, i.e. Satan and the beasts in heaven as well as the kings of the earth on the earth and that they will be assembled together and will be imprisoned in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years. After this event, God will establish his everlasting kingdom here on the earth and the Son of Man will be given a dominion that all of the people of the earth should worship him.

4. That the Gog Agog battles will occur after Satan and the beasts are released from their 1,000 years on imprisonment in the Bottomless Pit.

5. That the beast and the false prophet, i.e. the little horn, will be captured first by Christ and thrown into the lake of fire towards the end of the next age.

6. That next Satan is captured and is dispatched into the lake of fire.

7. After Satan is thrown into the lake of fire, Christ will be seen coming with all of the heavenly hosts to judge the peoples of the earth.

8. That the second death and hades will then be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

9. That the earth and the heavens will be renewed once to become the inheritance of the saints.

In a nut shell, this is how I see God's prophetic End time prophecies will play out.

The above is a broad brushstroke picture of what is to happen, remembering that not all of the finer details of the prophecies have been given above.

Now, this is what I have been consistently posting since becoming active on this forum.

I hope that the above points you in the direction that God has revealed in the scriptures. Read the scripture and see if you can find the above revealed to you. Remember that the English translations have many contextual errors contained within the words used, i.e. "seismos" should be translated as "turmoil" rather than "earthquake." If we do not make corrections for the poor translations of the scriptures where needed, then the context of the prophecies are lost and we go looking for the wrong signs.

Shalom

 

[Jay Ross]

I'm telling the story? Hardly. And...I wonder if you realise your second sentence doesn't make sense...at all. As in, I see the individual words, but together they don't actually make a sensible sentence.
And honestly, if you're going to use words like brothel and watershed to describe land features, you need to be absolutely sure the person you're talking to already knows those phrases in reference to what you're talking about or the specific areas in question. Because otherwise people are just going to think you're slightly odd and come away from a conversation with you confused.

So be it Naomi25. I am sorry that you do not have the ability to understand what is written.

I will ask the question again in simple English. Where do you live in Australia? A general locality, i.e. the central coast of NSW,

will suffice to provide an understanding.​

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Except I'm not saying that Christ is not coming again. All I'm saying is that people who point to those particular signs in Matt 24 as "his return is now!" signs, miss the obvious: Christ himself tells us that these signs will be "but the beginning of birthpangs", rather than signs of his imminent arrival, and that these signs are, biblically and historically, proven to be a regulars in the interadvental period. That makes any such 'sounding the warning' of his impending return at any second based on these particular signs dishonest. These signs were present when the Disciples were alive, they were present in the Dark Ages, and the time of the Reformation, and they are present now. The only honest thing we can, biblically, say about these signs is that, just as labor pains, they grow in intensity and frequency. But even then it is impossible to announce Christ's coming within the next 'little bit' with any certainty, as we have no idea how bad these birth pangs are going to get.

The most important sign is that the "fig tree" budded in May of 1948, it leafed out in 1967 with the Six Day War and the regaining of Jerusalem and the fruit will come when the nation of Israel finally accepts that Jesus is their Messiah ("in the end, all Israel will be saved"). Zechariah 12:10 tells of that time.

At the end of WWII, there were just a handful of Jewish believers in Jesus. Before the Nazis, there were probably 250,000 Jewish-Christians spread throughout Europe and they were almost ALL lost in the Holocaust. Satan hates the Jews, he hates Christians and he REALLY hates Jewish believers in Jesus, it seems. Just a handful survived to make aliyah to Israel. Belief in Jesus is now flourishing in Israel--there are at least 250,000 believers there today. They have even been promised their own seats in the Knesset, as they have formed their own political group.

 

[Trekson]

That the beast and the false prophet, i.e. the little horn, will be captured first by Christ and thrown into the lake of fire towards the end of the next age.

So would it be safe to say your pov is post-millennium? Do you consider the "next age" and the millennium to be the same thing?

 

[Naomi25]

So be it Naomi25. I am sorry that you do not have the ability to understand what is written.

I will ask the question again in simple English. Where do you live in Australia? A general locality, i.e. the central coast of NSW,

will suffice​

r to provide an understanding.

I'm not sure you can accuse my lack of understanding on my ability to read what you've written. I ask you, what about this sentence makes sense:
"The reference to a brothel was with respect to where I lived (of course, I should understand immediately an area of Australia being called a brothel) and if the waves get up (okay, if the waves "get up"...I might assume is a reference to the rising sea levels? But it's not really the most clear way to state it) the asset for the reason for ("the asset for the reason for"...this string of words do not make a sensible sentence...they have no meaning beyond the individual words themself. In other words...you are speaking the English very badly) the popularity of that areas could soon be washed away. (again, I'm assuming you're speaking of rising sea levels and the many beach front houses. Again...not sure what that has to do with brothels or why you'd link that term to a conversation about where you live.)"

Where do I live? I don't know, man, I'm not sure I want to tell you...you might decide to give my home area a funky name like slaughterhouse, or moonbase or something like that.

 

[Naomi25]

The most important sign is that the "fig tree" budded in May of 1948, it leafed out in 1967 with the Six Day War and the regaining of Jerusalem and the fruit will come when the nation of Israel finally accepts that Jesus is their Messiah ("in the end, all Israel will be saved"). Zechariah 12:10 tells of that time.

At the end of WWII, there were just a handful of Jewish believers in Jesus. Before the Nazis, there were probably 250,000 Jewish-Christians spread throughout Europe and they were almost ALL lost in the Holocaust. Satan hates the Jews, he hates Christians and he REALLY hates Jewish believers in Jesus, it seems. Just a handful survived to make aliyah to Israel. Belief in Jesus is now flourishing in Israel--there are at least 250,000 believers there today. They have even been promised their own seats in the Knesset, as they have formed their own political group.

It's interesting, don't you think, that this is supposed to be "the most important sign"...but...when we look at the actual passage, it does't actually say Israel. It doesn't actually give us any infomation on whether Israel will be 'reborn', or if and when it is, that is to be the "terminal" generation. All that stuff....that is assumptions placed upon the text because of an understanding already held via doctrinal beliefs.

If we do a biblical search through scripture, we find that the "fig tree" does not, in fact, always refer to the physical nation of Israel. Quite often it is a symbol of prosperity or lack there of...often in conjuction with Israel, but often not one and the same. Thus we see scripture giving blessings in terms of 'growing fig trees and eating of them' or of having them 'burned up or laid waste to'. So, automatically assuming that the fig tree MUST refer to Israel is erroneous.

“From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. -Matthew 24:32–35

The problem with assuming the fig tree must be Israel is Lukes version of this passage:

And he told them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. As soon as they come out in leaf, you see for yourselves and know that the summer is already near. So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all has taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. -Luke 21:29–33

There is also a problem with assuming this passage means the formation of national Israel is the terminal generation sign, is that it simply doesn't say that. It says "all these things", but the previous passages in the Olivet Discourse does not in any way, shape or form mention Israel being remade into a nation, or there being a timeframe around that event. The only timeframe indicator in this passage is "generation", which causes much debate. But despite Dispensationalists arguing staunchly in opposition for it, they have yet to be able to make 'generation' mean anything but what generation means.

Basically...what it comes down to is this: this "most important sign" is based on nothing more than assumptions of what is simply not found in the text.

 

[Jay Ross]

I'm not sure you can accuse my lack of understanding on my ability to read what you've written. I ask you, what about this sentence makes sense:
"The reference to a brothel was with respect to where I lived (of course, I should understand immediately an area of Australia being called a brothel) and if the waves get up (okay, if the waves "get up"...I might assume is a reference to the rising sea levels? But it's not really the most clear way to state it) the asset for the reason for ("the asset for the reason for"...this string of words do not make a sensible sentence...they have no meaning beyond the individual words themself. In other words...you are speaking the English very badly) the popularity of that areas could soon be washed away. (again, I'm assuming you're speaking of rising sea levels and the many beach front houses. Again...not sure what that has to do with brothels or why you'd link that term to a conversation about where you live.)"

Where do I live? I don't know, man, I'm not sure I want to tell you...you might decide to give my home area a funky name like slaughterhouse, or moonbase or something like that.

It seems that you already have in attempting to take the mickey out of a twice removed Irishman.

As for speaking about the sea rising. Could it have been a reference to king tides and an associated storm surge caused by the invisible air which we breathe.

If you have read the sentence, I wrote, literally, like many people read the bible, literally, then it may not seem to make any sense at all, but if you allow the words to build a picture story then they might.

Now the word brothel can have more than one meaning and I was not necessarily referring to a place where certain types of "ladies" might gather to ply their trade from, but then again that might be the only meaning for that word that you know of.

Now needing to know your answer as to where you might live has become a boring past time.

 

[Jay Ross]

So would it be safe to say your pov is post-millennium? Do you consider the "next age" and the millennium to be the same thing?

The timeframe for man can be found in scripture described as the "age of the ages". The last age has been labelled as the Millennium Age because of the references to a time period of 1,000 years that occurs within an age, which is also know as a millennium age period, as a short hand means of identifying the last age, but this is not a label used in scripture to define the last age.

I have no need to label my POV as you are trying to do.

 

[Jay Ross]

It's interesting, don't you think, that this is supposed to be "the most important sign"...but...when we look at the actual passage, it does't actually say Israel. It doesn't actually give us any infomation on whether Israel will be 'reborn', or if and when it is, that is to be the "terminal" generation. All that stuff....that is assumptions placed upon the text because of an understanding already held via doctrinal beliefs.

If we do a biblical search through scripture, we find that the "fig tree" does not, in fact, always refer to the physical nation of Israel. Quite often it is a symbol of prosperity or lack there of...often in conjunction with Israel, but often not one and the same. Thus we see scripture giving blessings in terms of 'growing fig trees and eating of them' or of having them 'burned up or laid waste to'. So, automatically assuming that the fig tree MUST refer to Israel is erroneous.

“From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. -Matthew 24:32–35

The problem with assuming the fig tree must be Israel is Lukes version of this passage:

And he told them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. As soon as they come out in leaf, you see for yourselves and know that the summer is already near. So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all has taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. -Luke 21:29–33

There is also a problem with assuming this passage means the formation of national Israel is the terminal generation sign, is that it simply doesn't say that. It says "all these things", but the previous passages in the Olivet Discourse does not in any way, shape or form mention Israel being remade into a nation, or there being a timeframe around that event. The only timeframe indicator in this passage is "generation", which causes much debate. But despite Dispensationalists arguing staunchly in opposition for it, they have yet to be able to make 'generation' mean anything but what generation means.

Basically...what it comes down to is this: this "most important sign" is based on nothing more than assumptions of what is simply not found in the text.

Have you considered that Jesus as referring to prophetic prophecy that was given to Abraham in that around 4,000 years after the birth of Isaac around the year 2052 BC, that some of his descendants would return to the land of Israel in their own strength. That their return to the land of Canaan was part of their attempt to call out to God. That the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits. And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering. Now when they fall, they shall be aided with a little help; but many shall join with them by intrigue. And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because the lesson of the fig tree was a sign of the appointed season that would be coming.

The lesson of the fig tree is the only sign that Christ referenced as to when the Everlasting Kingdom of God would be established on the earth during the time of the Kings referred to in the Daniel 2 statue prophecy. Jesus also spent time explain what would be happening in the age that follows and the sign or events within that generation/age.

If we have a short term view of prophecy, then we will limit the timespan of what Jesus was presenting to a relatively short time period of around 70-120 years, but if we have a longer time frame in mind, then our understanding will extend past the 1,000 years mentioned in Rev 20 as the period of time that Jesus was referencing for all of the signs that He had mentioned.

The Greek word γενεὰ is better understood if it has the meaning of an age and not the meaning of a descendant generation which is the usual understanding of the English word "generation." If we use the "descendant generation" understanding for γενεὰ, then we are already skewing the contextual meaning of what Christ was speak of with His disciples.

Yes, we are all looking for sign(s), but like Nicodemus, if our understanding of the things of the kingdom is lacking, like his was when he first went to see Jesus under the cover of darkness, our understanding of the signs that Jesus told to His disciples will not make much sense at all.

Shalom