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Featured Prophecy Alert: "The Fig Tree Generation"

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by GISMYS_7, Feb 16, 2019.

  1. GISMYS_7

    GISMYS_7 Well-Known Member

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  2. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    Tell me this: how are false Christs (v5), wars and rumours of wars (v7), famines and earthquakes (v8), tribulation and death in the name of Christ (v9), false prophets (v11) and increasing lawlessness (v12) in any way differ from what has been happening in the Disciples times to now?
     
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  3. GISMYS_7

    GISMYS_7 Well-Known Member

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    God says Israel is His fig tree and that tree did not come nack to life until May 15,1948 and Israel did not regain it's capital Jerusalem until July 1967 that year the fig tree put on leaves!!! Time is very short!!
     
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  4. tzcho2

    tzcho2 Active Member

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    Yes. Praise the Lord!
     
  5. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Because when Israel was given back to the Jews in 1945 it was a desert, just as the bible described, and just as it speaks of the Fig tree blossoming, it is now green fertile, feeds it own people, has enough water that is sells it to other countries, even its own gas and Oil, and now the world wants all that it has, hence WW3. So watch the Fig Tree,Israel, because there are Dire times ahead, if you bother to watch the news of whats happening with Russia and all the goings on in the middle east.
     
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  6. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Did i forget to mention Israel Celebrated its 70th Anniversary last ,year. i am sure there is something prophetic in that
     
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  7. 07-07-07

    07-07-07 Active Member

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    Israel recaptures Jerusalem in 1967 (a Jubilee year/ every 50 years is a Jubilee year). In 2017 ( a Jubilee year), Trump declares that the US will officially move it's Embassy to Jerusalem to officially recognize it as Israel's capital.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
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  8. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    I feel I need to say a few things in regards to this: the first being that I do, in point of fact, see Israel as remarkable. It is a miracle that she has come back to her land and become such a powerful, thriving nation in such a short time. I believe God is, indeed, preparing to bring large numbers of Jews to Christ in a show that will mark his glory.
    However, that does not necessarily mean that this has to be that generation, or that there is a 'separate' salvation plan for the Jewish people.
    The passage about the Fig tree is highly regarded as a difficult one, no matter your end times perspective. Dispensationalists try and fix that by claiming that 'generation' means 'race' or the people group alive at the end, but that is not without huge exegetial problems. The foremost being, 'generation' just does't mean that. It means what it means....the people Jesus was talking to face to face. Then there comes a problem of defining "all these things"...what is Christ talking about? Is he talking about the "birth pang" signs? Is he talking about the temple destruction signs? Or is he talking about the cosmic heaven signs that precede his immediate return? Because there are clear distinctions between these signs.
    In fact, the whole Olivet Discourse is a little problematic if we, like Dispensationalists, assume that Jesus is talking about the one and same event....the last 7 years of human history. However, when we look at the beginning of the passage, we see how it is framed; the Disciples ask 3 basic questions in response to Christ telling them the temple would be destroyed: 'when will this be, what will be the signs of your coming and the end of the age?'.
    The thing is, history clearly tells us that these events were not concurrent. We know that the temple the Disciples and Christ was talking about WAS destroyed, just as Jesus predicted, in 70AD. The part of the Olivet Discourse where Jesus predicts this is spot on. But, we know that his 'coming and the end of the age' was not then. Which tells us straight away that the Olivet Discourse must be divided up into sections that deal with different time periods. Either that, or Christ left large chunks of the Disciples question unanswered.
    We also see, from verse 14 and 15, that at times in the Discourse, Jesus jumps from church age events to his return at the end of the age, and then back again. This makes the passage difficult, but any other understanding of it makes Christ's answer to his Disciples disingenuous...they asked about the current temple but he answers them by talking about a future one.
    My point is this: looking at Matt 24:32-35 and concluding that the Fig tree MUST be Israel, and that this HAS to be the generation of Christ's return, is not necessarily the best reading of the text. In point of fact, smooshing those two facts in there sort disregards most of what Christ has just run us through previously and focuses on afterward.
     
  9. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Evidently you failed to read my harmonization of the Olivet Discourse, which shows what is past, what is present, and what is future.
    PART 1

    The Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21) gave the apostles an overview of everything that would occur between the destruction of the temple at Jerusalem (70 AD) and the Second Coming of Christ (undeterminate date). But because it is generally not harmonized properly, people have arrived at some untenable conclusion. Therefore it needs to be harmonized in view of the six seals of Revelation 6, and the Scriptures from all three Synoptic Gospels (KJV) are combined together to properly understand the sequence of events.

    ADMIRATION OF THE TEMPLE BY THE DISCIPLES
    And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,...

    PREDICTION OF THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE (70 AD)
    And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

    PREDICTION OF THE DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM (70 AD)
    And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

    DISCOURSE ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES
    And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled? And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

    WARNING AGAINST DECEPTION
    And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you: And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived:

    FALSE CHRISTS PREDICTED (the First Seal of Revelation)
    For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. ...for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

    WARS AND RUMORS OF WAR PREDICTED (the Second Seal of Revelation)
    And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by. Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

    FAMINES, EARTHQUAKES, PESTILENCES PREDICTED (the Third and Fourth Seals of Revelation)
    ... and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. And there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows. And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences;

    PERSECUTIONS AND MARTYRDOM PREDICTED (the Fifth Seal of Revelation)
    Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony.14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. But there shall not an hair of your head perish. In your patience possess ye your souls.
     
  10. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    PART 2

    FALSE PROPHETS AND FALSE CHRISTS PREDICTED (Present Time)

    And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

    GOSPEL TO BE PREACHED WORLDWIDE BEFORE THE END (Present Time)

    And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

    THE ANTICHRIST AND LYING WONDERS PREDICTED (Future)

    Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

    THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION PREDICTED (Future)

    When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)... But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

    FLIGHT FROM JERUSALEM AND JUDEA NECESSARY (Past and Future)

    Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.

    THE GREAT TRIBULATION PREDICTED (the Seventh Seal of Revelation -- Future)

    For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

    CATACLYSMIC COSMIC EVENTS PREDICTED (the Sixth Seal of Revelation -- Future)

    Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

    THE COMING OF THE SON OF MAN PREDICTED (Future)

    For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

    THE GATHERING OF ISRAEL’S ELECT (BELIEVING REMNANT) PREDICTED (Future)

    And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

    YOUR REDEMPTION (THE RAPTURE) PREDICTED (Future)

    Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
     
  11. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Hello

    Much has been assumed about the verses 32-35 but there is still great confusion about what this meant. The first thing given in verse 32 is that when we see the fig tree begin to bud at the end of the winter season, that we will know that after a period of around 91 days (i.e. 365/4 = length of each of the four seasons) depending on the relative timing of the end of the winter season and the beginning of the spring season, there will be around 91 days plus the seasonal adjustments for either an early or late spring, that the start of the summer season will begin. The summer season is also the season for the harvest of the crop from the field where the seed has been scattered by the sower.

    In verse 34 we are then told that the last age will be around an age in duration. We are also told in Daniel 7:12: - 12 "As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time." In Revelation 20 we are told the length of the season that the beasts will be imprisoned in the Abyss/pit/the bottomless pit is for 1,000 years after which they will be released for a time before they will be punished.

    The Greek word γενεὰ wrongly translated in this particular verse as “generation” is better understood in the Greek as a period of time or an age when the last age will unfold.

    At this present time, the end of this age has not occurred. The event that heralds the end of this present Age is Armageddon at which time the prophecy found in Isaiah 24:21-22 will occur.

    As such the premise of the OP is false and the writer is pushing his usual bandwagon and hope for the avoidance of experiencing any part of the tribulations at the end of this present age. The tribulations that will occur at the end of the last age is so far into the distant future as to not be a concern for those who will be alive over the next 20-40 year period.


    Shalom
     
  12. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    "Evidently you failed.."...I love how you make that sound like a personal failing on my part. Yes...clearly I missed your take on this, but I'll happily go through it now.
    I don't disagree that there's correlation between the Olivet Discourse and the seals in Revelation 6...although I'm not sure where we land after that is similar.

    I would also add that Matt 24:29 corressponds to the 6th seal...signs in the sky and heavens.
    Thus far I do not disagree with this, but I think, like I said, how we see it differs. Clearly the temple was destroyed in 70AD, so that part of the Discourse was about that. The signs that corresponds to seals 1-5 are found throughout history...from Christ's ascention to his second coming. We may say they will increase in intensity and frequency at the end, but there is nowhere you can turn to deny these things have not taken place during this time period. Too many historical facts (including the bible itself) proves that these things were present even in the early church. That leaves us with, according to the Olivet Discourse, only Christ's return, or, the signs that correspond with seal 6.


    Here's where I find there real differences kick in....
    Present time? Well, yes, sure...but only in the sense that this is listed by Christ as something that is ongoing and every Christian is to be watchful for. The passage doesn't give any specific timeframe for us, just that these false ones will be a fact in this interadvental period, and Christians should watch out. Putting specific times upon such a warning is unwarrented by the text.

    Again, you are placing a timeframe upon the text when it does not state it. Is the preaching of the gospel worldwide now? We don't know. It may be that it will take another 500 years. In point of fact Paul claims the gospel had already been 'preached to the whole world' when he wrote his letters. Clearly that was not literally so...he was talking about the Roman 'known' world...but you see how the perspective gets a little murky. You say it's 'present'...but that means you insist the end must be 'now'. But the text doesn't say that, only that the end will come when the gospel has been preached to all the world. Basically, the text says it's in God's hands, not our own judgement of such things.

    False Christs are indeed talked about, but they are talked about as a common accurance between Christ's two advents...as you've already listed. Putting this sign down as "past, present and future" is a little misleading, I feel. This sign is just, like earthquakes, famines and war, a fact of life in a fallen, sinful world.
    And this particular text does not talk about "The" Antichrist, just the many antichrist's that will come.
    Also, the abomination of desolation, that Jesus talks about in Matt 24, is clearly spoken about when he is telling them of the destruction of the temple in 70AD. To pluck that phrase out and cast it into the future and insist upon a whole new temple that must be built and destroyed is a bit far fetched when the temple the Disciples asked about, the temple Jesus answered them about and the temple that was, in point of fact, destroyed, was the one in 70AD.

    Will it be possible that Israel faces another catasrophe? Could it be that the destruction of the temple in 70AD was but a foreshadowing event of some last days fulfillment of a greater event? Sure, I suppose, with God everything is possible. But here's the thing: the text doesn't outright say it. And without biblical textual support, it's just an idea without proof. Especially when the predictions Christ made came to pass exactly in 70AD, you cannot even say that it is waiting a future fulfillment.

    Again, the tribulation talked about here in Matt 24 is spoken of in terms of the cataclysmic events of 70AD. The fact that it says "or ever will be"...assumes that there will be time after it. If it was talking about the end of history...that 7 year period, I don't suppose there would be any history left after that, do you?

    These we can agree are future. Although I would say that "Israel's" elect being gathered is the same event as "our redemption"...as we are all saved through the blood of Christ. There is no distinction there, none that the bible talks about, anyway.
     
  13. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Not here to argue with people who read and study too much, all I know is Christ is coming and the world is placed for the final showdown, I have known for a few years now that I will be around for His return, and everything right now is pointing to that, and I will continue to pray Christ Come, come quickly the world needs you.
     
  14. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    You will be a very old man then, because the second advent is not for about another 1050 years. Hope that your body can hold out for that long with no major deterioration since the life expectancy is, according to scripture, no more than 120 years. :D
     
  15. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    2nd Advent???

    Do you have a date...
     
  16. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    I have an idea of when within the limitations of the story telling accuracies but if you know the starting point with respect to the temple for the Ez 41:1-12 prophecy, then if you understand the timespan of this prophecy, then the end of the Millennium age might be established within the limitation mentioned above.

    THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE ARE NOT TOLD WHICH TEMPLE IS BEING REFERENCED OR HOW THE SPARTING POINT WITH RESPECT TO TIME FOR THE TEMPLE CAN BE FOUND. also DOES A CUBIT REPRESENT A YEAR?
     
  17. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    wouldnt have a clue, dont study much just ask lots of questions.
     
  18. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Which part of the flat earth countryside do you occupy?

    I live just north of the brothel strip that is going to be stripped shortly of its alluring asset..
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  19. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Now you are just getting plain stupid.
     
  20. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Are you an Aussie without a sense of humour? Or do you live in a very mountainous region when many major watershed ranges are under 200 m above sea level. I crossed one the other year which was only 176 m high. Now the island we both live on has a relatively flat earth countryside appearance. It average elevation is less than 300 m.

    I asked you where you lived. A region or locality
    will be fine.
    I also told you that I live north of a strip of land which was going to be eroded along its watery edge by a wind storm out in the pacific.

    Now is that just getting plain stupid or can I assume that you have no funny bone?.
     
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