Proselyting Techniques of Mormon Missionaries

[The Learner]

Revisting "Like God"

B. None like God (in his essence)
1. Explicit statements: Ex. 8:10; 9:14; 15:11; 2 Sam. 7:22; 1 Kgs.
8:23; 1 Chr. 17:20; Psa. 86:8; Isa. 40:18, 25: 44:7; 46:5, 9; Jer.
10:6-7; Micah 7:18
2. Being like God a Satanic lie: Gen. 3:5; Isa. 14:14; John 8:44
3. Fallen man become "like God" only in that he took upon himself
to know good and evil, not that he acquired godhood: Gen. 3:22
...
F. How human beings are meant to be "like God" 1. The image of God indicates that man is to represent God and share his moral character, not that man can be metaphysically like God: Gen. 1:26-27; 5:1; 1 Cor. 11:7; Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10 2. The goal of being like Christ has the following aspects only: a. Sharing His moral character: 1 John 3:2; Rom. 8:29 b. Being raised with glorified, immortal bodies like His: Phil. 3:21; 1 Cor. 15:49
3. Becoming partakers of the divine nature refers again to moral nature ("having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust"), not metaphysical nature: 2 Pet. 1:4; see also Heb. 12:10; on the meaning of "partakers," see 1 Cor. 10:18, 20; 2 Cor. 1:17; 1 Pet. 5:1 G. Are mighty or exalted men gods? 1. Scripture never says explicitly that men are gods 2. Powerful, mighty men are explicitly said not to be gods: Ezek. 28:2, 9; Isa. 31:3; 2 Thess. 2:4 3. Men and God are opposite, exclusive categories: Num. 23:19; Isa. 31:3; Ezek. 28:2; Hosea 11:9; Matt. 19:26; John 10:33; Acts 12:22; 1 Cor. 14:2 4. Moses was "as God," not really a god: Ex. 4:16; 7:1 5. Ezek. 32:21 speaks of warriors or soldiers as "mighty gods," but in context they are so regarded by their pagan nations, not by God or Israel; cf. Ezek. 28:2, 9 6. The elohim before whom accused stood in Exodus was God Himself, not judges, as many translations incorrectly render: Ex. 22:8-9, 28; compare Deut. 19:17

 

[The Learner]

continued...
7. The use of elohim in Psalm 82, probably in reference to wicked judges, as cited by Jesus in John 10:34-36, does not mean that men really can be gods. a. It is Asaph, not the Lord, who calls the judges elohim in Psa. 82:1, 6. This is important, even though we agree that Psa. 82 is inspired. b. Asaph's meaning is not "Although you are gods, you will die like men," but rather "I called you gods, but in fact you will all die like the men that you really are" c. The Psalmist was no more saying that wicked judges were truly gods than he was saying that they were truly "sons of the Most High" (v. 6b) d. Thus, Psa. 82:1 calls the judges elohim in irony. They had quite likely taken their role in judgment
(cf. point 5 above) to mean they were elohim, or gods, and Asaph's message is that these so-called gods were mere men who would die under the judgment of the true elohim (vss. 1-2, 7-8) e. Christ's use of this passage in John 10:34-36 does not negate the above interpretation of Psalm 82 f. The words, "The Scripture cannot be broken," means "the Scripture cannot go without having some ultimate fulfillment" (cf. John 7:23; Matt. 5:17). Thus Jesus is saying that what the OT judges were called in irony, He is in reality; He does what they could not do, and is what they could never be (see the Adam-Christ contrasts in Rom. 5:12-21 and 1 Cor. 15:21-22, 45 for a similar use of OT Scripture) g. The clause, "those against whom the word of God came" (John 10:35) shows that this "word" was a word of judgment against the so-called gods; which shows that they were false gods, not really gods at all h. Finally, these wicked men were certainly not "godlike" or "divine" by nature, so that in any case the use of elohim to refer to them must be seen as figurative, not literal 8. Even if men were gods (which they are not), this would be irrelevant to Jesus, since He was God as a preexistent spirit before creation: John 1:1 H. Are angels gods? 1. Scripture never explicitly states that angels are gods 2. Demonic spirits are not gods, 1 Cor. 10:20; Gal. 4:8; thus, being "mighty spirits" does not make angels gods 3. Satan is therefore also a false god: 2 Cor. 4:4 4. Psalm 8:5 does not teach that angels are gods a. Psa. 8:5 is paraphrased in Heb. 2:7, not quoted literally (cf. Psa. 68:18 with Eph. 4:8). In Psa. 8:5,
elohim certainly means God, not angels, since Psa. 8:3-8 parallels Gen. 1:1, 8 16, 26-28. Note that the Psalmist is speaking of man's exalted place in creation, whereas Hebrews is speaking of the lower place taken by Christ in becoming a man. Thus, Heb. 2:7 may not mean to equate angels with gods at all. b. Even if Heb. 2:7 does imply that angels are "gods," in the context of Hebrews 1-2 these angels would be those falsely exalted above Christ: Note Heb. 1:6 (which quotes Psa. 97:7, which definitely speaks of "gods" in the sense of false gods); and cf. Col. 2:16 on the problem of the worship of angels. 5. Elsewhere in the Psalms angels, if spoken of as gods (or as "sons of the gods"), are considered false gods: Psa. 29:1; 86:8-10; 89:6; 95:3; 96:4-5; 97:7-9 (note that these false gods are called "angels" in the Septuagint); 135:5; 136:2; 138:1; cf. Ex. 15:11; 18:11; Deut. 10:17; 1 Chr. 16:25; 2 Chr. 2:5. 6. Even if the angels were gods (which the above shows they are not), that would be irrelevant to Jesus, since He is not an angelic being, but the Son who is worshipped by the angels as their Creator, Lord, and God: Heb. 1:1-13. I. Conclusion: If there is only one God, one true God, all other gods being false gods, neither men nor angels being gods, and none even like God by nature - all of which the Bible says repeatedly and explicitly - then we must conclude that there is indeed only one God. II. This One God Is Known in the OT as "Jehovah/Yahweh" ("The Lord") A. Texts where Jehovah is said to be elohim or el: Deut. 4:35, 39; Psa. 100:3; etc. B. Texts where the compound name "Jehovah God" (Yahweh Elohim) is used: Gen. 2:3; 9:26; 24:3; Ex. 3:15-18; 4:4; 2 Sam. 7:22, 25; etc. C. Only one Yahweh/Jehovah: Deut. 6:4; Mark 12:29 D. Conclusion: Jehovah is the only God, the only El or Elohim

 

[The Learner]

III. God Is a Unique, Incomprehensible Being
A. Only one God, thus unique: See I.A.
B. None are even like God: see I.B.
C. God cannot be fully comprehended: 1 Cor. 8:2-3
D. God can only be known insofar as the Son reveals Him: Matt. 11:25-27;
John 1:18
E. Analogical language needed to describe God: Ezek. 1:26-28; Rev. 1:13-16
F. God is transcendent, entirely distinct from and different than the universe,
as the carpenter is distinct from the bench
1. Separate from the world: Isa. 40:22; Acts 17:24
2. Contrasted with the world: Psa. 102:25-27; 1 John 2:15-17
3. Created the world: Gen. 1:1; Psa. 33:6; 102:25; Isa. 42:5; 44:24;
John 1:3; Rom. 11:36; Heb. 1:2; 11:3
IV. Is God One Person?
A. God is one God (cf. I above), one Yahweh, one Lord (cf. II above), one
Spirit (John 4:24)
B. However, the Bible never saays that God is "one person" 1. Heb. 1:3 KJV speaks of God's "person," but the word used here, hupostasis, is translated "substance" in Heb. 11:1 KJV; also in Heb. 1:3 "God" refers specifically to the Father 2. Gal. 3:20 speaks of God as one party in the covenant between God and man, not as one person 3. Job 13:8 KJV speaks of God's "person," but ironically the Hebrew literally means "his faces"

https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical%20Basis%20Trinity%20Bowman.pdf

 

[The Learner]

Good Night all

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I'm not going to spend my time typing personalized responses to copy-paste stuff. Suffice it to say I passionately disagree with a closed canon, especially in Protestantism. Along with other points touched on here.

 

[Raccoon1010]

Sorry for being rude @Jane_Doe22. I think I just needed to vent.

 

[XFire]

How can we as believers in Christ judge others that are made in the image of God.

Answers and shown below show why there is NO unity of the faith ..

If you can not believe non protestants can be saved the you haven't read Mark 9.38.. and its companion story in luke.

 

[The Learner]

I'm not going to spend my time typing personalized responses to copy-paste stuff. Suffice it to say I passionately disagree with a closed canon, especially in Protestantism. Along with other points touched on here.

You are allowed to disagree friend, but the facts remain the Cannon is closed. Those who had the authority declared that so.

 

[The Learner]

How can we as believers in Christ judge others that are made in the image of God.

Answers and shown below show why there is NO unity of the faith ..

If you can not believe non protestants can be saved the you haven't read Mark 9.38.. and its companion story in luke.

Note: I am not judging anyone, just speaking the truth.

Mark 9:38-50

Easy-to-Read Version

​

Whoever Is Not Against Us Is For Us​

38 Then John said, “Teacher, we saw a man using your name to force demons out of someone. He is not one of us. So we told him to stop, because he does not belong to our group.”
39 Jesus said, “Don’t stop him. Whoever uses my name to do powerful things will not soon say bad things about me. 40 Whoever is not against us is with us. 41 I can assure you that anyone who helps you by giving you a drink of water because you belong to the Messiah will definitely get a reward.

Jesus Warns About Causes of Sin​

42 “If one of these little children believes in me, and someone causes that child to sin, it will be very bad for that person. It would be better for them to have a millstone tied around their neck and be drowned in the sea. 43 If your hand makes you sin, cut it off. It is better for you to lose part of your body and have eternal life than to have two hands and go to hell. There the fire never stops. 44 [a] 45 If your foot makes you sin, cut it off. It is better for you to lose part of your body and have eternal life than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. 46 [] 47 If your eye makes you sin, take it out. It is better for you to have only one eye and enter God’s kingdom than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell. 48 The worms that eat the people in hell never die. The fire there is never stopped.
49 “Everyone will be salted with fire.[c]
50 “Salt is good. But if it loses its salty taste, you can’t make it good again. So, don’t lose that good quality of salt you have. And live in peace with each other.”

 

[Jane_Doe22]

You are allowed to disagree friend, but the facts remain the Cannon is closed. Those who had the authority declared that so.

Again, passionately disagree: God is not a changeable being to be silenced. Interpreting those verses to be God giving himself a gag order is incorrect.

 

[The Learner]

Historic Canons of synods and councils:

1. The Muratorian Canon

2. The Canon of Origen (A.D. C. 185-254)

3. The Canon of Eusebius of Caesarea (A.D. 265-340)

4. A Canon of Uncertain Date And Provenance Inserted In Codex Claromontanus

5. The Canon of Cyril of Jerusalem (C. A.D. 350)

6. The Cheltenham Canon (C. A.D. 360)

7. The Canon Approved By The Synod of Laodicea (C. A.D. 363)

8. The Canon of Athanasius (A.D. 367)

9. The Canon Approved By The `Apostolic Canons' (C. A.D. 380)

10. The Canon of Gregory of Nazianzus (A.D. 329-89)

11. The Canon of Amphilochius of Iconium (D. After 394)

12. The Canon Approved By The Third Synod of Carthace (A.D. 397)

By Bruce M. Merger

 

[The Learner]

Synod of Rome under Pope Damasus in A.D. 382, followed by the Councils of Hippo and Carthage, that the Catholic Church defined, albeit , which books made it into the New Testament and which didn’t.

 

[The Learner]

In order to maintain that the canon is closed, most Christians would refer the the first few centuries of the church. In particular, councils such as Rome, Hippo, and Carthage, as well as Athanasius’ Easter Letter, are pointed to as evidence that the canon of the New Testament had closed by the time they took place. The Old Testament, according to most, was already established and closed by the time of Christ. For this, reference could be made to the New Testament itself, the testimonies of Josephus and Philo, and some of the intertestamental works.

 

[The Learner]

The first “canon” was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in AD 170. The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, 1 and 2 Peter, and 3 John. In AD 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with one book of the Apocrypha) and 26 books of the New Testament (everything but Revelation) were canonical and to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (AD 393) and the Council of Carthage (AD 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative.

The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a New Testament book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: 1) Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? 2) Is the book being accepted by the body of Christ at large? 3) Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? 4) Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit? Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did not determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon. It was God, and God alone, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God’s imparting to His followers what He had already decided. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was flawed, but God, in His sovereignty, and despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The first “canon” was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in AD 170. The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, 1 and 2 Peter, and 3 John. In AD 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with one book of the Apocrypha) and 26 books of the New Testament (everything but Revelation) were canonical and to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (AD 393) and the Council of Carthage (AD 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative.

The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a New Testament book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: 1) Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? 2) Is the book being accepted by the body of Christ at large? 3) Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? 4) Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit? Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did not determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon. It was God, and God alone, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God’s imparting to His followers what He had already decided. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was flawed, but God, in His sovereignty, and despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired.

Trying to be polite here while extremely clear on the point: I leave the teaching to God Himself, not human councils. Humans, not matter how well meaning, are flawed and get things wrong.

 

[Truthnightmare]

You are allowed to disagree friend, but the facts remain the Cannon is closed. Those who had the authority declared that so.

Who do you believe had this authority?

 

[Truthnightmare]

Trying to be polite here while extremely clear on the point: I leave the teaching to God Himself, not human councils. Humans, not matter how well meaning, are flawed and get things wrong.

How can one leave the teaching to only God? When God said He will send you teachers…

And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding

And I agree, we are so flawed….

 

[Jane_Doe22]

How can one leave the teaching to only God? When God said He will send you teachers…

And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding

And I agree, we are so flawed….

God does indeed send teachers- He’s awesome that way. But a person claiming that they are sent from God doesn’t prove anything for me, I’m going to go to God Himself and as ask Him “is this your person?” And is so, I’m going to still keep checking in with God on individual teachings. And having 1-on-1’s with Him for personal direction and scripture study.

Does this take effort? Obviously. But Truth is worth it. I personally can’t accept “I’m just going to do what GotQuestions tells me to, they know the Bible”.

 

[Truthnightmare]

God does indeed send teachers- He’s awesome that way. But a person claiming that they are sent from God doesn’t prove anything for me, I’m going to go to God Himself and as ask Him “is this your person?” And is so, I’m going to still keep checking in with God on individual teachings. And having 1-on-1’s with Him for personal direction and scripture study.

Does this take effort? Obviously. But Truth is worth it. I personally can’t accept “I’m just going to do what GotQuestions tells me to, they know the Bible”.

Indeed, we were told to study and test spirits.
I like GotQuestions…. However they are wrong in some cases, as we all are. So don’t give them a free pass, test them also.

 

[The Learner]

God does indeed send teachers- He’s awesome that way. But a person claiming that they are sent from God doesn’t prove anything for me, I’m going to go to God Himself and as ask Him “is this your person?” And is so, I’m going to still keep checking in with God on individual teachings. And having 1-on-1’s with Him for personal direction and scripture study.

Does this take effort? Obviously. But Truth is worth it. I personally can’t accept “I’m just going to do what GotQuestions tells me to, they know the Bible”.

HI Jane Doe, I think you are closer to Baptist mindset, and you should consider going back or becoming what your hubby is. Just a friendlly thought. God Bless, Daniel