Proselyting Techniques of Mormon Missionaries
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Truthnightmare
Well-Known Member
Why exactly do you believe the book of Mormons is of any use? That is not to say we should reject every writing that is not the Bible.
But if it aligns, and gives no further insight, then what has already been given, what is its ultimate purpose? I have found a few contradictions.
NTMU Jane
Like all scripture, the Book of Mormon's purpose is to bear witness of Christ and His Gospel. You know how the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John all cover a lot of the same material, but with some different insights / angles / events recounted in each telling? The Book of Mormon does likewise: a lot of the material is the same. For example: stressing Christ's divinity, need for faith, and repentance. Some of it's different is insights / angles / events. All of these voices together teach us more about Christ, and each witness of Him is valuable, not matter the book. I love each of them.
PS: thank you for the thoughtful and respectful questions.
Truthnightmare
Well-Known Member
I speak with Mormons, my discussions have always been pleasant.. I however choose not affiliation by name.
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment
And I am a bit cautious on the story of Joseph, as we are told
knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
However….
For he that is not against us is on our part.
LDS and Historical Christians disagree on how he existed before time. We believe that he is fully God back then, not a spirit child of the god parents. Both quotes are from LDS sources. Isaiah 43:10 is clear one can not become a god. NO we do not have the same G_d. To even be considered to be a Christian, you must dump all of Mormism.
“Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father, prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal [physical] body” ( Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F.
that, although the earthly tabernacle is laid down and dissolved, they shall rise again to
dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more;
but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ. What is it? To inherit the
same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a
God, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before.
What did Jesus do? Why; I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds come rolling
into existence. My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do
the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my Father, so that he may
obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher
exaltation, and I will take his place, and thereby become exalted myself. So that Jesus
treads in the tracks of his Father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus
glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all his children. It is plain beyond
disputation, and you thus learn some of the first principles of the Gospel, about which so
much hath been said. https://emp.byui.edu/jexj/new/talks/talks/JS KingFollettDiscourse.pdf
Sin Nature at birth Moroni 8:8 vs Psalm 51:5
8 aListen to the words of Christ, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Behold, I came into the world not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance; the bwhole need no physician, but they that are sick; wherefore, little cchildren are dwhole, for they are not capable of committing esin; wherefore the curse of fAdam is taken from them in me, that it hath no power over them; and the law of gcircumcision is done away in me.
2 Nephi 2:23-25
And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin. But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.
“Adam fell that men might be;
and men are, that they might have joy.”
Romans 5:12; 8:20-21
2 Nephi 5:21
21 And he had caused the acursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and bdelightsome, that they might not be centicing unto my people the Lord God did cause a dskin of eblackness to come upon them.
'made of one blood all nations of men' Acts 17:26
"it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" 2 Nephi 25:23; Moroni 10:32
Bible Ephesians 2:1,5; Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 11:6; Titus 3:5-6
Mocking of the Bible 1 Nephi 13:26-28 VS Jesus himself Mark 13:31; Matthew 5:18 Jesus quoted the OT because he knew I Nephi will be Wrong!!!!
friend, Nope
What Mormonism gets WRONG about God [Study in Isaiah] - God Loves Mormons
Using Isaiah 40-48 to evaluate the teachings of the LDS Church
godlovesmormons.com
Again: I'm keeping this focused specifically on Christ. Your response talks a lot about you and I-- we aren't Christ.
As do LDS Christians. And the Father being Christ's Father doesn't change that.
Truthnightmare
Well-Known Member
I completely understand… And I am very familiar with what you have presented.
I do not agree with LSD, but they seem to believe Jesus is Lord, and at this point, I would tell them hold on to Christ.
We are all filthy rags..
Isaiah 64
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Even if we are correct in regards to their contradictions, the curve has been set by Christ; and we all fall short.
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God
Me, you, Baptist, Mormon Pentecost, Catholic, 7 day, Lutheran etc. all fall short.
Revelation 2
And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
There is a major difference between being born of parent gods and never having a beginning.
- Revelation 1:8
I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith [the] Lord God, he who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - Revelation 21:6
And he said to me, It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to him that thirsts of the fountain of the water of life freely.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - Revelation 22:13
*I* [am] the Alpha and the Omega, [the] first and [the] last, the beginning and the end.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Bible birth in Bethlehem Micah 5:2 Matthew 2:1, the Book of Mormon reads: “And behold, he (Jesus) shall be born of Mary at Jerusalem” Alma 7:10
crucifixion of Jesus, darkness covered the land for three hours Matthew 27:45; Mark 15:33; Luke 23:44). three days” Helaman 14:20,27; 3 Nephi 8:3
Christian in about 73 B.C. Alma 46:13, 15 “were called Christians first in Antioch” Acts 11:26
Galatians 1:6-9, Revelation 22:18-19, 2 Peter 1:3, and Jude 3
Quoting Revelations 1:8 against LDS Christians is dumb - LDS Christians 100% believe that Christ has always existed. There is no time where He didn’t.
Galatians 1 (the full chapter) is one of the most pro-LDS Christian chapters (+other strong Christians too), stressing the need for a person to receive revelation about Christ for themselves rather than just blindly following what other sources say.
Truthnightmare
Well-Known Member
You are a bit aggressive in your approach.. and
I get it, this is serious business.
Hosea
You take this very seriously… I can respect that. Being correct regarding the word of God is of the utmost importance.
As it is written..
Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
And I’m like you, I want to point out contradictions, as inconsistencies in beliefs and let people know what’s what’s… But we are fishers of men, control your rod gently with precision.
I have to remind myself all the time.
A soft answer turns away wrath,
Talk to you later learner.
interesting article The difference between the Book of Mormon and the Christian New Testament - Apostles Creed
D&C
SECTION 132
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant and the principle of plural marriage. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, evidence indicates that some of the principles involved in this revelation were known by the Prophet as early as 1831. See Official Declaration 1.
1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing plural marriage are set forth.
Doctrine and Covenants 132
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant and the principle of plural marriage. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, evidence indicates...
www.churchofjesuschrist.org
Numbers 23:19
Easy-to-Read Version
19 God is not a man;
he will not lie.
God is not a human being;
his decisions will not change.
If he says he will do something,
then he will do it.
If he makes a promise,
then he will do what he promised.
Concerning the "LDS Prophets" God of Bible is not the god of LDS.
Titus 1:2
Easy-to-Read Version
2 This faith and knowledge make us sure that we have eternal life. God promised that life to us before time began—and God does not lie.
God Is Not A Man That He Should Lie
Numbers 23:19 ESV / 144 helpful votes
God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?
Hebrews 6:18 ESV / 63 helpful votes
So that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us.
1 Samuel 15:29 ESV / 60 helpful votes
And also the Glory of Israel will not lie or have regret, for he is not a man, that he should have regret.”
Malachi 3:6 ESV / 49 helpful votes
“For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.
Hosea 11:9 ESV / 42 helpful votes
I will not execute my burning anger; I will not again destroy Ephraim; for I am God and not a man, the Holy One in your midst, and I will not come in wrath.
Titus 1:2 ESV / 38 helpful votes
In hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began
Jeremiah 17:5 ESV / 28 helpful votes
Thus says the Lord: “Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength, whose heart turns away from the Lord.
Job 9:32 ESV / 28 helpful votes
For he is not a man, as I am, that I might answer him, that we should come to trial together.
James 1:17 ESV / 27 helpful votes
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.
John 4:24 ESV / 27 helpful votes
God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
Who said anything about God changing? Not I! His almighty justice, mercy, glory, etc goes on forever.google Book of Mormon vs Bible timeline
interesting article The difference between the Book of Mormon and the Christian New Testament - Apostles Creed
D&C
SECTION 132
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant and the principle of plural marriage. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, evidence indicates that some of the principles involved in this revelation were known by the Prophet as early as 1831. See Official Declaration 1.
1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing plural marriage are set forth.
Doctrine and Covenants 132
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant and the principle of plural marriage. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, evidence indicates...www.churchofjesuschrist.org
Numbers 23:19
Easy-to-Read Version
19 God is not a man;
he will not lie.
God is not a human being;
his decisions will not change.
If he says he will do something,
then he will do it.
If he makes a promise,
then he will do what he promised.
Concerning the "LDS Prophets" God of Bible is not the god of LDS.
Titus 1:2
Easy-to-Read Version
2 This faith and knowledge make us sure that we have eternal life. God promised that life to us before time began—and God does not lie.
God Is Not A Man That He Should Lie
Numbers 23:19 ESV / 144 helpful votes
God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?
Hebrews 6:18 ESV / 63 helpful votes
So that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us.
1 Samuel 15:29 ESV / 60 helpful votes
And also the Glory of Israel will not lie or have regret, for he is not a man, that he should have regret.”
Malachi 3:6 ESV / 49 helpful votes
“For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.
Hosea 11:9 ESV / 42 helpful votes
I will not execute my burning anger; I will not again destroy Ephraim; for I am God and not a man, the Holy One in your midst, and I will not come in wrath.
Titus 1:2 ESV / 38 helpful votes
In hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began
Jeremiah 17:5 ESV / 28 helpful votes
Thus says the Lord: “Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength, whose heart turns away from the Lord.
Job 9:32 ESV / 28 helpful votes
For he is not a man, as I am, that I might answer him, that we should come to trial together.
James 1:17 ESV / 27 helpful votes
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.
John 4:24 ESV / 27 helpful votes
God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
Now physical form, that can change. For example, Christ being born of Mary, dying, and resurrected. But that none of that changes God’s mercy, justice, glory, etc.
LDS have another Jesus friend. From their own sources, I have shown that Son of God was a spirit child of god parents before time, thus he had a begning. The Son of God of the Bible is Alpha and Omega, he never had a begining. Super big difference.
Note: LDS Christians don’t believe that God / Christ has a beginning. He’s always existed.
I have posted from LDS sources that disagrees with you, friend. In fact, Son of God being a spirit child of parent gods before time. That means he had a begining. We both agree the Bible teaches he does not have a begining. This is just one of the many reasons I suggested you do yourself a favor, dump the mormonism and attend Baptist Church with your Hubby. also, from LDS sources, I have shown that they believe god is an exualted being, thus as a spirit child he had a beginng too. The god of this world is not the real god.
"We declare it is self-evident from the scriptures that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are separate persons, three divine beings," The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent
Friend that is three gods, not One as we both believe.
I am sure we both know that,
2 Corinthians 4:4
Easy-to-Read Version
4 The ruler[a] of this world has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They cannot see the light of the Good News—the message about the divine greatness of Christ. Christ is the one who is exactly like God.
2 Corinthians 4:4 The ruler Literally, “The god.”
2 Corinthians 4:4
in whom the god of this world has blinded the thoughts of the unbelieving, so that the radiancy of the glad tidings of the glory of the Christ, who is [the] image of God, should not shine forth [for them].
I do not "blindly following what other sources". I am a well trained Historican.
Polite Challenge, make a list of LDS teachings, including the ones I posted from LDS sources. Go to newadvent.org and try to find those teachings in the Early Church Fathers. They were personally taught by the early Apostles themselves, and many of them heard Jesus himself --- clearly not all of them heard Jesus.
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