Proselyting Techniques of Mormon Missionaries

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Dec 12, 2023
79
28
8
51
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Knowing someone doesn't equate to always having the best book knowledge about them.

To use a real life example: my daughter was 7 before she figured out what my first name is. Does her not even knowing my name mean we didn't have a relationship for 7 years? Obviously not!
Mother was your name and she knew you from birth.(or should I say before birth)
Try again.
 
  • Love
Reactions: The Learner

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
3,809
1,026
113
67
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Is more than one wife a blessing from the Lord?
No it is a nightmare. My Father was murdered in 1993 going after his 18th wife. I am the oldest male and became the new prophet of the Sextons(were nudists too). I made up one prophecy stating no prophets after me. I told everyone about the true Gospel -- Romans Road --- not to marry their sisters, go out and live a normal life. The guys hated me for this, the Ladies loved it. The LDS Sect was then broke up. Over time, all 60+ siblings came to the real Jesus. My birth Mother was Jewish and Native American( we are not the lost tribes in the USA myth). One of my step mothers was also Jewish. After Public School, I went to Temple School. I was expected to be a Rabbi. Hebrew was the common language of our Family. Our home was a converted Barn.
 

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
3,809
1,026
113
67
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I know that I know Christ. He is my King and Savior, the very center of my world.

When some other human comes up and says "you don't know Christ" or "you follow the wrong Christ", honestly I find that such questions are prompted by ignorance or misinformation. In best scenarios, the person is willing to have a conversations with me and I'm able to share how I do love Christ, and answer any questions. In worst scenarios, the person just wants to continue rattling off their misinformation and has zero actual interest in me or my relationship with Christ. They don't want to listen at all, and the best option is simply wish them well and say a prayer for them.
The Christ of LDS is not the real Jesus. The real Son of God did not have a begining as a spirit child born of father and moma gods -- that were exhaulted humans. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

John 1:1 says, “In the beginning was the Word.” That’s the Son of God. And he did not have a beginning. He was there in the beginning. He was there as far back as you can go—to eternity. And verse 3 says, “All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.” That means that he was not made. He is not part of creation in any way. So here is what we know about the Son of God: 1) He is God. 2) The Father is also God. 3) The Son is not the Father; he was with the Father. 4) He is uncreated and eternal.

Hebrews 7
Easy-to-Read Version
The Priest Melchizedek
7 Melchizedek was the king of Salem and a priest for God the Most High. He met Abraham when Abraham was coming back after defeating the kings. That day Melchizedek blessed him. 2 Then Abraham gave him a tenth of everything he had.

The name Melchizedek, king of Salem, has two meanings. First, Melchizedek means “king of justice.” And “king of Salem” means “king of peace.” 3 No one knows who his father or mother was or where he came from.[a] And no one knows when he was born or when he died. Melchizedek is like the Son of God in that he will always be a priest.

4 You can see that Melchizedek was very great. Abraham, our great ancestor, gave him a tenth of everything he won in battle. 5 Now the law says that those from the tribe of Levi who become priests must get a tenth from their own people, even though they and their people are both from the family of Abraham. 6 Melchizedek was not even from the tribe of Levi, but Abraham gave him a tenth of what he had. And Melchizedek blessed Abraham—the one who had God’s promises. 7 And everyone knows that the more important person always blesses the less important person.

8 Those priests get a tenth, but they are only men who live and then die. But Melchizedek, who got a tenth from Abraham, continues to live, as the Scriptures say. 9 Now those from the family of Levi are the ones who get a tenth from the people. But we can say that when Abraham paid Melchizedek a tenth, then Levi also paid it. 10 Levi was not yet born, but he already existed in his ancestor Abraham when Melchizedek met him.

11 The people were given the law under the system of priests from the tribe of Levi. But no one could be made spiritually perfect through that system of priests. So there was a need for another priest to come. I mean a priest like Melchizedek, not Aaron. 12 And when a different kind of priest comes, then the law must be changed too. 13-14 We are talking about our Lord Christ, who belonged to a different tribe. No one from that tribe ever served as a priest at the altar. It is clear that Christ came from the tribe of Judah. And Moses said nothing about priests belonging to that tribe.

Jesus Is a Priest Like Melchizedek
15 And these things become even clearer when we see that another priest has come who is like Melchizedek. 16 He was made a priest, but not because he met the requirement of being born into the right family. He became a priest by the power of a life that will never end. 17 This is what the Scriptures say about him: “You are a priest forever—the kind of priest Melchizedek was.”

18 The old rule is now ended because it was weak and worthless. 19 The Law of Moses could not make anything perfect. But now a better hope has been given to us. And with that hope we can come near to God.

20 Also, it is important that God made a promise with an oath when he made Jesus high priest. When those other men became priests, there was no oath. 21 But Christ became a priest with God’s oath. God said to him,

“The Lord has made a promise with an oath
and will not change his mind:
‘You are a priest forever.’”

22 So this means that Jesus is the guarantee of a better agreement from God to his people.

23 Also, when one of those other priests died, he could not continue being a priest. So there were many of those priests. 24 But Jesus lives forever. He will never stop serving as a priest. 25 So Christ can save those who come to God through him. Christ can do this forever, because he always lives and is ready to help people when they come before God.

26 So Jesus is the kind of high priest we need. He is holy. He has no sin in him. He is pure and not influenced by sinners. And he is raised above the heavens. 27 He is not like those other priests. They had to offer sacrifices every day, first for their own sins, and then for the sins of the people. But Jesus doesn’t need to do that. He offered only one sacrifice for all time. He offered himself. 28 The law chooses high priests who are men and have the same weaknesses that all people have. But after the law, God spoke the oath that made his Son high priest. And that Son, made perfect through suffering, will serve forever.

Footnotes
Hebrews 7:3 No one … came from Literally, “Melchizedek was without father, without mother, without genealogy.”
Hebrews 7:17 Quote from Ps. 110:4.
 
  • Love
Reactions: Cassandra

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
3,809
1,026
113
67
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
John 1
Easy-to-Read Version
Christ Comes to the World
1 Before the world began, the Word[a] was there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was there with God in the beginning. 3 Everything was made through him, and nothing was made without him. 4 In him there was life, and that life was a light for the people of the world. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not defeated[c] it.

6 There was a man named John, who was sent by God. 7 He came to tell people about the light. Through him all people could hear about the light and believe. 8 John was not the light. But he came to tell people about the light. 9 The true light was coming into the world. This is the true light that gives light to all people.

10 The Word was already in the world. The world was made through him, but the world did not know him. 11 He came to the world that was his own. And his own people did not accept him. 12 But some people did accept him. They believed in him, and he gave them the right to become children of God. 13 They became God’s children, but not in the way babies are usually born. It was not because of any human desire or plan. They were born from God himself.

14 The Word became a man and lived among us. We saw his divine greatness—the greatness that belongs to the only Son of the Father. The Word was full of grace and truth. 15 John told people about him. He said loudly, “This is the one I was talking about when I said, ‘The one who is coming after me is greater than I am, because he was living before I was even born.’”

16 Yes, the Word was full of grace and truth, and from him we all received one blessing after another.[d] 17 That is, the law was given to us through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God. The only Son is the one who has shown us what God is like. He is himself God and is very close to the Father.[e]

John Tells About the Messiah

Colossians 1:15-18
Easy-to-Read Version
The Son of God Is the Same as God
15 No one can see God,
but the Son is exactly like God.
He rules over everything that has been made.[a]
16 Through his power all things were made:
things in heaven and on earth, seen and not seen—
all spiritual rulers, lords, powers, and authorities.
Everything was made through him and for him.

17 The Son was there before anything was made.
And all things continue because of him.
18 He is the head of the body, which is the church.
He is the beginning of everything else.
And he is the first among all who will be raised from death.
So in everything he is most important.

Isaiah 43:10
Easy-to-Read Version
10 The Lord says, “You people are my witnesses and the servant I chose. I chose you so that you would help people believe me. I chose you so that you would understand that ‘I Am He’—I am the true God. There was no God before me, and there will be no God after me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cassandra

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
3,809
1,026
113
67
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

What is meant by Jesus being God the Father's “only” (John 1:18, 3:16 and 3:18) Son?
The original Greek adjective μονογενης (monogenes) in John 1:18 and its grammatical case variants (slightly different endings to describe the object of a verb vs. to describe the subject of a verb, etc.) μονογενη (monogene) in John 3:16, and μονογενους (monogenous) in John 3:18, are all derived from μονος (monos), which means “alone” or “solitary,” and γενoς (genos), which means “type” or “kind”; this adjective literally means “alone type” or “solitary kind” - i.e., “unique” or “only” - and when used to describe the “Son” (John 1:18, 3:16, 3:18), describes Him as the “unique” or “only” Son of God the Father. (The case variant μονογενους (monogenous) is also in John 1:14 but as a substantive, which is an adjective that replaces a noun instead of describing it (e.g., in the phrase, “the land of the free, and the home of the brave,” “free” and “brave” are substantives), and therefore means “only Son” on its own, without the noun for “Son.”)
 

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
3,809
1,026
113
67
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Knowing someone doesn't equate to always having the best book knowledge about them.

To use a real life example: my daughter was 7 before she figured out what my first name is. Does her not even knowing my name mean we didn't have a relationship for 7 years? Obviously not!
You did not answer his question. I am only guessing white as snow or red blood.

1702498538128.png
 

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
3,809
1,026
113
67
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

Changes in the Book of Mormon​

Since its first printing in 1830, the Book of Moron has undergone thousands of changes.

  • Royal Skousen, a BYU linguistics professor and expert of the textual history of the Book of Mormon, identified 5,280 variations in all its editions.
  • ...
    • Godhead
      Changes were made to the Book of Mormon after Joseph Smith evolved his doctrine from Monotheism to Polytheism.


  • 1830 Original Edition1837, Forward
    1 Nephi 11:18And he said unto me, Behold, the virgin which thou seest, is the mother of God, after the manner of the flesh.And he said unto me: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest, is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh.
    1 Nephi 11:21And the angel said unto me, behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Eternal Father!And the angel said unto me: Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father!
    1 Nephi 11:32And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Everlasting God, was judged of the world.And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Son of the everlasting God was judged of the world.
    1 Nephi 13:40That the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Savior of the world.That the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Savior of the world.
    • Racism
      The church made changes to the Book of Mormon to soften its racism.
  • 192019812013
    2 Nephi, Ch. 5The rebellious cursed with a dark skin.The Lamanites are cursed, receive a skin of blackness, and become a scourge unto the Nephites.The Lamanites are cut off from the presence of the Lord, are cursed, receive a skin of blackness, and become a scourge unto the Nephites.
    Mormon, Ch. 5The Lamanites shall be a dark, filthy, and loathsome people.The Lamanites shall be a dark, filthy, and loathsome people will be scattered, and the Spirit will cease to strive with them.
    • Alterable Decrees
      In 1835, Joseph altered his original revelations published in the 1833 Book of Commandments. His evolving doctrines necessitated altering the Book of Mormon’s teaching that God’s decrees are unalterable.


Aside just for fun:
 

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
3,809
1,026
113
67
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

1830 Original Edition
1837 edition until 1981
Alma 29:4I had not ought to harrow up in my desires, the firm decree of a just God, for I know that he granteth unto men according to their desires, whether it be unto death or unto life; yea, I know that he allotteth unto men, yea, decreeth unto them decrees which are unalterable, according to their wills; whether it be unto salvation or unto destruction.I had ought not to harrow up in my desires, the firm decree of a just God, for I know that he granteth unto men according to their desire, whether it be unto death or unto life; yea, I know that he allotteth unto men, yea, decreeth unto them decrees which are unalterable, according to their wills; whether they be unto salvation or unto destruction

Correcting Errors​


A selection of changes correcting the human origins of the Book of Mormon.
  • Christ named too soon
  • The name of Christ is first revealed in 2 Nephi 10:3
quote.gif

Wherefore, as I said unto you, it must needs be expedient that Christ—for in the last night the angel spake unto me that this should be his name.
Book of Mormon
— 2 Nephi

10:3
  • Consequently, back in 1 Nephi 12:18, ‘Jesus Christ’ had to be replaced with ‘Messiah’.
1830 Original Edition1837, forward
1 Nephi 12:18Yea, even the word of the justice of the Eternal God, and Jesus Christ, which is the Lamb of God.Yea, even the word of the justice of the Eternal God, and Jesus Christ the Messiah, who is the Lamb of God.

  • King Benjamin alive after being dead
    Mosiah 6:5 records King Benjamin’s death. Later in the original, the author forgot that king Benjamin had died, which necessitated replacing him with another King.
1830 Original Edition1837, forward
Mosiah 21:28King Benjamin had a gift from God.King Benjamin Mosiah had a gift from God.
Ether 4:1And for this cause did king Benjamin keep themAnd for this cause did king Benjamin *Mosiah keep them
  • altered in 1879

Conclusion​



  • 72% of the original Book of Mormon handwritten manuscript, which was dictated by Joseph Smith, was destroyed.
  • A handwritten copy, prepared for the original 1830 printing, referred to as the ‘Printer’s Manuscript’ survives. The LDS church acquired it in 2017 from the RLDS church (Community of Christ) for a reported $35 million.
  • Six Mormon denominations have published their own editions of the Book of Mormon, including one version which even omits the numerous ‘and it came to pass’.
  • The LDS church has translated and published the Book of Mormon in over 80 languages.
  • There are over 30 English Book of Mormon editions and versions alone.
In the nearly 200 years since its first printing, the same types of transmission errors found in the Bible are also present in the Book of Mormon—and the vast majority of them do not change the message of either book. Therefore, any blanket statement by the LDS church casting doubt on the Bible over the same issues in the Book of Mormon is dishonest.
  • Where a variation is significant to change the meaning of a text, the burden is on the skeptic to demonstrate it.
  • The handbook presents above a selection of significant changes in the Book of Mormon.
 

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
3,809
1,026
113
67
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
    • Joseph’s mother recorded this event.

  • quote.gif

    Martin Harris, having written some one hundred and sixteen pages for Joseph, asked permission of my son to carry the manuscript home with him, in order to let his wife read it, as he hoped it might have a salutary effect upon her feelings....

    After leaving Joseph he arrived at home with the manuscript in safety. Soon after he exhibited the manuscript to his wife and family....

    When Joseph sent for him, he went immediately to the drawer where he had left it, but, behold it was gone! He asked his wife where it was. She solemnly averred that she did not know anything respecting it.
    Lucy Mack Smith
    — Lucy Mack Smith
    Joseph Smith’s mother
    Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith, pp. 117-123
    • If Joseph truly translated from the gold plates, then we would expect him to be able to reproduce another nearly identical translation.
    • However, if Joseph was just making the story up, then he could only rehash major themes of the 116 pages, but not the finer details from memory.
  • Joseph Smith’s Response​

    Joseph needed a way to reproduce his story without all of the details, for fear of being exposed as a fraud.
    • His solution was to claim that God had forbidden him from producing a second translation, citing the risk of the original being altered and used against him.
    • Lucy recorded Joseph’s explanation.

  • quote.gif

    There is no doubt but Mrs. Harris took it from the drawer, with the view of retaining it, until another translation should be given, then, to alter the original translation, for the purpose of showing a discrepancy between them, and thus make the whole appear to be a deception.
    Lucy Mack Smith
    — Lucy Mack Smith
    Joseph Smith’s mother
    Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith, p. 123
    • Joseph then claimed that the Book of Mormon narrators left a second, less detailed record, that conveniently covered the same period as the missing 116 pages! Joseph would translate from these plates—called the ‘Small Plates of Nephi’—and revert back to the more detailed large plates when he was caught up.
  • 1830 Book of Mormon Preface​

    The original 1830 Book of Mormon included this preface explaining the lost 116 pages. It was removed in subsequent editions.

    quote.gif

    TO THE READER—

    As many false reports have been circulated respecting the following work, and also many unlawful measures taken by evil designing persons to destroy me, and also the work, I would inform you that I translated, by the gift and power of God, and caused to be written, one hundred and sixteen pages, the which I took from the Book of Lehi, which was an account abridged from the plates of Lehi, by the hand of Mormon; which said account, some person or persons have stolen and kept from me, notwithstanding my utmost exertions to recover it again—and being commanded of the Lord that I should not translate the same over again, for Satan had put it into their hearts to tempt the Lord their God, by altering the words, that they did read contrary from that which I translated and caused to be written; and if I should bring forth the same words again, or, in other words, if I should translate the same over again, they would publish that which they had stolen, and Satan would stir up the hearts of this generation, that they might not receive this work: but behold, the Lord said unto me, I will not suffer that Satan shall accomplish his evil design in this thing: therefore thou shalt translate from the plates of Nephi, until ye come to that which ye have translated, which ye have retained; and behold ye shall publish it as the record of Nephi; and thus I will confound those who have altered my words. I will not suffer that they shall destroy my work; yea, I will shew unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the Devil. Wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, I have, through his grace and mercy, accomplished that which he hath commanded me respecting this thing. I would also inform you that the plates of which hath been spoken, were found in the township of Manchester, Ontario county, New-York.
 

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
3,809
1,026
113
67
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

Egyptian Language​

The Jews held contempt for Egypt, who enslaved them for 430 years. It is absurd to think that the Jews would have recorded their history in ‘the language of the Egyptians’—just as it would be absurd if modern-day Jews recorded their history in the language of Nazi Germany.
quote.gif

Yea, I make a record in the language of my father, which consists of the learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians.
Book of Mormon
— 1 Nephi

1:2
quote.gif

And now, behold, we have written this record according to our knowledge, in the characters which are called among us the reformed Egyptian.
Book of Mormon
— Mormon

9:32

Shiz​

A decapitated man struggles to breathe.
quote.gif

And it came to pass that after he had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised up on his hands and fell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.
Book of Mormon
— Ether

15:31

Ancient Submarines​

In the Book of Mormon narrative, around 2500 BC the Jaredites built submarines.
quote.gif

And the Lord said: Go to work and build, after the manner of barges....

Ye shall be as a whale in the midst of the sea....

And it came to pass that they were many times buried in the depths of the sea....

They were encompassed about by many waters....

And thus they were driven forth; and no monster of the sea could break them, neither whale that could mar them; and they did have light continually, whether it was above the water or under the water.
Book of Mormon
— Ether

2:16, 24; 6:6-7, 10
  • An absurd solution to get oxygen—pluggable holes on the top and bottom of the vessel.
quote.gif
 

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
3,809
1,026
113
67
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.
Book of Mormon
— Ether

2:20

Babylonian Exile​

The Book of Mormon begins with a prophet named Lehi warning Jerusalem to repent or the city will be destroyed and its people taken captive. In response the people mock him.
quote.gif

For it came to pass in the commencement of the first year of the reign of Zedekiah, king of Judah, (my father, Lehi, having dwelt at Jerusalem in all his days); and in that same year came many prophets, prophesying unto the people that they must repent, or the great city Jerusalem must be destroyed....

And the inhabitants thereof; many should perish by the sword, and many should be carried away captive into Babylon....

The Lord has shown so many marvelous things unto my father, Lehi, yea, concerning the destruction of Jerusalem, behold he went forth among the people, and began to prophecy.... And it came to pass that the Jews did mock him.
Book of Mormon
— 1 Nephi

1:4, 13, 18-19
  • Nebuchadnezzar conquers Jerusalem — 2 Kings 24:10-17
    The author was ignorant that the Babylonians had already conquered Jerusalem and exiled all its people, except the poor.
quote.gif

[Nebuchadnezzar] carried away all Jerusalem, and all the princes, and all the mighty men of valour, even ten thousand captives, and all the craftsmen and smiths: none remained, save the poorest sort of the people of the land.
Holy Bible
— Prophet Jeremiah

2 Kings 24:14
  • The Babylonian siege and exile happened under Judah’s King Jehoiachin. v.12
quote.gif

And Jehoiachin the king of Judah went out to the king of Babylon... and the king of Babylon took him in the eighth year of his reign.
Holy Bible
— Prophet Jeremiah

2 Kings 24:12
  • After the exile, Nebuchadnezzar made Zedekiah King. 2 Kings 24:17
quote.gif

And he carried away Jehoiachin to Babylon....

And the king of Babylon made Mattaniah his father's brother king in his stead, and changed his name to Zedekiah.
Holy Bible
— Prophet Jeremiah

2 Kings 24:15, 17
  • The first year of the reign of Zedekiah
    According to the Book of Mormon, Lehi's warnings to Jerusalem happened in the “first year of the reign of Zedekiah, King of Judah”. 1 Nephi 1:4
  • We would not expect the poor left behind in Jerusalem to mock that which they had just seen was possible. 1 Nephi 1:19
  • Lehi lived in Jerusalem all his life and was not poor so he should have already been exiled.
quote.gif

Lehi, having dwelt at Jerusalem in all his days.
Book of Mormon
— 1 Nephi

1:4
quote.gif

And it came to pass that he [Lehi] departed into the wilderness. And he left his house, and the land of his inheritance, and his gold, and his silver, and his precious things, and took nothing with him, save it were his family, and provisions, and tents, and departed into the wilderness.
Book of Mormon
— 1 Nephi

2:4

King Solomon’s Temple Replica​

In the Book of Mormon narrative, the Jews who settled in the New World constructed a replica of Solomon’s Temple.
quote.gif

And I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon.
Book of Mormon
— 2 Nephi

5:16
  • Construction of King Solomon’s Temple was a major undertaking. It included:
  • 30,000 laborers. 1 Kings 5:13
  • 70,000 transporters. 1 Kings 5:15
  • 80,000 stone hewers. 1 Kings 5:15
  • 3,300 deputies. 1 Kings 5:16
  • Construction took seven years. 1 Kings 6:38
  • Although the Book of Mormon says that the Jews lacked “many precious things... not found upon the land” (2 Nephi 5:16), the list of materials used to construct both temples is nearly identical.
Solomon's TempleNephi's Temple
quote.gif
quote.gif
Now send me skilled men to work in gold, silver, brass and iron; and in purple, crimson and blue... to prepare timber in abundance for me, for the house which I am about to build shall be great and wonderful.And I did teach my people to build buildings, and to work in all manner of wood, and of iron, and of copper, and of brass, and of steel, and of gold, and of silver, and of precious ores, which were in great abundance.
Holy Bible
— Ezra
Priest and Scribe
2 Chronicles 2:7, 9
Book of Mormon
— 2 Nephi

5:15

Two Battles, One Hill​

The Book of Mormon repeats a fantastical narrative of two races, 800 years apart, who battle on the same hill, with only one survivor to recount their annihilation.
Jaredites:
Shiz vs. Coriantumr
Nephites vs. Lamanites
TimelineMigrated to the New World around 2500 BC.Migrated to the New World around 610 BC.

Lamanites are cursed with dark skin and split from the Nephites.
All inhabitants gather for warEther 15:12, 15Mormon 6:2, 5
Battle at Hill CumorahEther 15:11

Hill called ‘Ramah’ by Jaredites
Mormon 6:2
Total annihilation, only one survivorJaredites annihilated, Coriantumr last survivor.

Ether 15:29-31, Omni 1:21
Nephites annihilated, Moroni last survivor.

Mormon 8:2-3
 

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
3,809
1,026
113
67
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
1830 Edition of the Book of Mormon1981 Edition of the Book of Mormon
1 Nephi 11:18“And he said unto me, Behold, the virgin which thou seest, is the mother of [ . . . ] God, after the manner of the flesh“And he said unto me: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh.”
1 Nephi 11:21“And the angel said unto me, behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the [ . . . ] Eternal Father! . . . ““And the angel said unto me: Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father! . . . “
1 Nephi 11:32” . . . And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, [ . . . ] the Everlasting God, was judged of the world . . . “” . . . And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Son of the everlasting God was judged of the world . . . “
1 Nephi 13:40” . . . and shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is [ . . . ] the Eternal Father and the Savior of the world . . . “” . . . and shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Savior of the World . . . “
1 Nephi 19:20” . . . for had not the Lord been merciful, to shew unto me concerning them, even as he had prophets of old; [ . . . ] for he surely . . . “” . . . for had not the Lord been merciful, to show unto me concerning them, even as he had prophets of old, I should have perished also.”
1 Nephi 20:1
changed in 1964 ed.
“Hearken and hear this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, [ . . . ] which swear . . . ““Hearken and hear this, O house of Jacob, who are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, or out of the waters of baptism, who swear . . . “
Mosiah 21:28
changed in 1964 ed.
” . . . king Benjamin had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings; . . . “” . . . king Mosiah had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings; . . . “
Alma 46:40” . . . because of the excellent qualities of the many plants and roots which God had prepared, to remove the cause of diseases which was subsequent to man by the nature of the climate.”” . . . because of the excellent qualities of the many plants and roots which God had prepared to removed the cause of diseases, to which men were subject by the nature of the climate.”
3 Nephi 3:23“And the land which was appointed was the land of Zarahemla, and the land which was between the land of Zarahemla and the land Bountiful.”“And the land which was appointed was the land of Zarahemla [ . . . ] and the land Bountiful . . . “
3 Nephi 10:4“O ye people of these great cities which have fallen which are a descendant of Jacob; yea which are of the house of Israel; O ye people of the house of Israel, how oft have I gathered you . . . ““O ye people of these great cities which have fallen, who are descendants of Jacob, yea, who are of the house of Israel, [ . . . ] how oft have I gathered you . . . “
3 Nephi 16:10“and thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you at that day, When the Gentiles shall sin against my Gospel, and shall subject the fulness of my Gospel, and shall be lifted up . . . ““And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel,[ . . . ] and shall be lifted up . . . “
3 Nephi 22:4” . . . for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, [ . . . ] and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.”” . . . for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.”
Ether 9:2” . . . nevertheless, the Lord was merciful unto Omer, and also to his sons and to his daughters, which were not, or which did not seek his destruction.”“Nevertheless, the Lord was merciful unto Omer, and also to his sons, and to his daughters [ . . . ] who did not seek his destruction.”
 

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
3,809
1,026
113
67
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"That errors of grammar and faults in dictation do exist in the Book of Mormon (and more especially and abundantly in the first edition) must be conceded; and what is more, while some of the errors may be referred to inefficient proof-reading, such as is to be expected in a country printing establishment, yet such is the nature of the errors in question, and so interwoven are they throughout the diction of the Book, that they may not be disposed of by saying they result from inefficient proof-reading or referring them to the mischievous disposition of the 'typos' or the unfriendliness of the publishing house. The errors are constitutional in their character; they are of the web and woof of the style, and not such errors as may be classed as typographical. Indeed, the first edition of the Book of Mormon is SINGULARLY FREE FROM TYPOGRAPHICAL ERRORS." (Defense of the Faith, by B. H. Roberts, pp. 280-281; reprinted in A New Witness For Christ in America, by Francis W. Kirkham, Vol. 1, pp. 200-201)

In a footnote on page 295 of the same book Mr. Roberts stated:

"But after due allowance is made for all these conditions, the errors are so numerous, and of such a constitutional nature, that they cannot be explained away by these unfavorable conditions under which the work was published."

John H. Gilbert, the man who helped to print the Book of Mormon, claimed that the Mormons did not want him to correct the grammatical errors which were in the manuscript:

"When the printer was ready to commence work, Harris was notified, and Hyrum Smith brought the first installment of manuscript ... On the second day — Harris and Smith being in the office — I called their attention to a grammatical error, and asked whether I should correct it? Harris consulted with Smith a short time, and turned to me and said: 'The Old Testament is ungrammatical, set it as it is written.' ... .

"Cowdery held and looked over the manuscript when most of the proofs were read. Martin Harris once or twice, and Hyrum Smith once, Grandin supposing these men could read their own writing as well, if not better, than any one else; and if there are any discrepancies between the Palmyra edition and the manuscript these men should be held responsible." (Memorandum, made by John H. Gilbert, Esq., September 8, 1892, Palmyra, N.Y., printed in Joseph Smith Begins His Work, Vol. 1, Introduction)

A photograph of the original manuscript of the Book of Mormon which is published in the book, A New Witness For Christ In America, Vol. 1, page 216, proves that the printer was not responsible for the grammatical errors which appeared in the first edition A second handwritten manuscript known as the printer's manuscript also confirms this. (See photo at the end of the introduction.) Photos of the printer's manuscript can be seen at the University of Utah Library Special Collections. George Reynolds quotes the following from an interview with John H. Gilbert:

"'Hyrum Smith always brought the manuscript to the office; he would have it under his coat and all buttoned up as carefully as though it was so much gold. He said at the time that it was translated from plates by the power of God, and they were very particular about it. We had a great deal of trouble with it. It was not punctuated at all. They did not know anything about punctuation, and we had to do that ourselves.'

"'Well; did you change any part of it when you were setting the type?'

"'No, Sir; we never changed it at all.'

"'Why did you not change it and correct it?'

"'Because they would not allow us to; they were very particular about that. We never changed it in the least. Oh, well; there might have been one or two words that I changed the spelling of; I believe I did change the spelling of one, and perhaps two, but no more.'

"'Did you set all the type, or did some one help you?'

"'I did the whole of it myself, and helped to read the proof, too; there was no one who worked at that but myself. Did you ever see one of the first copies? I have one here that was never bound. Mr.Grandin, the printer, gave it to me. If you ever saw a Book of Mormon you will see that they changed it afterwards.'

"'They did! Well, let us see your copy; that is a good point. How is it changed now?'

"'I will show you (bringing out his copy). Here on the title page it says (reading) "Joseph Smith, Jr. author and proprietor." Afterwards, in getting out other editions they left that out, and only claimed that Joseph Smith translated it.'

"'Well, did they claim anything else than that he was the translator when they brought the manuscript to you?'

"'Oh, no; they claimed that he was translating by means of some instruments he got at the same time he did the plates, and that the Lord helped him.'" (The Myth of the Manuscript Found, 1883 edition, page 59)

According to Joseph Smith's testimony there should not have been any reason to make changes in the Book of Mormon. He stated that when he and the witnesses went out to pray concerning it, a voice spoke from heaven telling them that the translation of the Book of Mormon was correct:

"... we heard a voice from out of the bright light above us, saying, 'These plates have been revealed by the power of God, and they have been translated by the power of God. The translation of them which you have seen is correct, and I command you to bear record of what you now see and hear.'" (History of the Church, by Joseph Smith, Vol. 1, pp. 54-55)

On another occasion Joseph Smith stated:

"I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on the earth ... " (History of the Church, Vol. 4, page 461)

The errors in the Book of Mormon were blamed on the fact that it was originally written in "reformed Egyptian." On page 538 of the first edition we read as follows:

"Condemn me not because of mine imperfection; neither my father, because of his imperfection; neither them which have written before him, but rather give thanks unto God that he hath made manifest unto you our imperfections, that ye may learn to be more wise than that which we have been.

"And now behold, we have written this record according to our knowledge in the characters, which are called among us the reformed Egyptian, being handed down and altered by us, according to our manner of speech. And if our plates had been sufficiently large, we should have written in the Hebrew; but the Hebrew hath been altered by us also; and if we could have written in the Hebrew, behold, ye would have had none imperfection in our record. But the Lord knoweth the things which we have written, and also that none other people knoweth our language; and because that none other people knoweth our language, therefore he hath prepared means for the interpretation thereof." [Mormon 9:31-34]

On page 564 of the first edition of the Book of Mormon we read as follows:

"And I said unto him, Lord, the Gentiles will mock at these things, because of our weakness in writing: for Lord, thou hast made us mighty in word by faith, whereunto thou hast not made us mighty in writing: for thou hast made all this people that they could speak much, because of the Holy Ghost which thou hast given them; and thou hast made us that we could write but little, because of the awkwardness of our hands ... when we write, we behold our weakness, and stumble because of the placing of our words; and I fear lest the Gentiles shall mock at our words. And when I had said this, the Lord spake unto me, saying, Fools mock, but they shall mourn ..." [Ether 12:23-26]

For many years the Mormons taught that the Lord had given Joseph Smith a perfect translation of the Book of Mormon, and that all of the errors were errors which were made by the Nephites on the original plates. David Whitmer, one of the three witnesses to the Book of Mormon, made this statement:

"I will now give you a description of the manner in which the Book of Mormon was translated. Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English." (An Address to All Believers in Christ, by David Whitmer, 1887, page 12)

Martin Harris (another of the three witnesses) claimed that Joseph Smith received the translation directly from God, and that it was a perfect translation. George Reynolds quotes the following from a letter written to the Deseret News by Edward Stevenson:
 

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
3,809
1,026
113
67
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Galatians 1:8–9 (KJV 1900)
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
 

The Learner

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2022
3,809
1,026
113
67
Brighton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

John S. Dinger’s Significant Textual Changes in the Book of Mormon:


Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon into English through the gift and power of God. He said that it is "the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book" (History of the Church, 4:461).