Proselyting Techniques of Mormon Missionaries
- Thread starter The Learner
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
223: is mine, where I ask you to use your own words.
228: you link other people's words.
234: focusing on the parts you actually said:
If you want to beat upon a Jospeh Smith piñata, you can. Joseph Smith ain't mine or anyone else's Savior. My Lord and Savior is Jesus Christ the Son of God.
235:
Actual beliefs of both LDS Christians and Creedal Christians: every single person on earth has a spirit that resides in a body. Yes, God the Father is the father of our spirits. John 20:17 "[Christ speaking] I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." This is simple truth, shared between both our faiths. No need for flaming.
236: is pure quotes, which actually shows the agreement both Creedal Christans and LDS Christians have about Christ's divinity, mortal life, and literal physical ressucrtion. These are all glorious and super important points.
222 and 224: are just quotes, but I shall address them regardless:
LDS Christians believe that God does have a spirit! God the Spirit (who's just a spirit), God the Son (who's a spirit now residing in a glorified body), and God the Father (whom like the Son, has a spirit residing in a glorified body). Creedal Christians agree about the Spirit and Son, while believing that the Father is like the Spirit instead of the Son. It makes no sense to claim God doesn't have a spirit or can't have a body (which denies Christ's divinity).
I was tired when I made the list, 223 was an mistake on my part,
228 my words were: "I see no reason to reinvent the wheel when others say it better than I can."
234 is quotes of primary LDS sources, the Bible and my words.
It is not Spam, it is the truth and facts.
“I have more to boast of than ever
any man had. I am the only man that
has ever been able to keep a whole
church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have
stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter,
nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no
man ever did such a work as I”
(History of the Church 6:408-409)
Me: JS called Jesus a liar, thus
Jesus said, "I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" - Matthew 16:18 KJV.
2 Timothy 2:19
Easy-to-Read Version
19 But God’s strong foundation never moves, and these words are written on it: “The Lord knows those who belong to him.” Also, these words are written there: “Everyone who says they believe in the Lord must stop doing wrong.”ME: JS false prophecy rules him out as a prophet of God, thus all he wrote and did is garbage and those who follow him are in big trouble on Judgement day.
“And now I am prepared to say by
the authority of Jesus Christ, that not
many years shall pass away before the
United States shall present such a scene
of bloodshed as has not a parallel in the
history of our nation; pestilence, hail,
famine, and earthquake will sweep the
wicked of this generation from off the
face of the land, to open and prepare
the way for the return of the lost tribes
of Israel from the north country” (History of The Church 1:315)
Me: arrogance of JS
“I see no faults in the Church, and
therefore let me be resurrected with the
Saints, whether I ascend to heaven or
descend to hell, or go to any other
place. And if we go to hell, we will turn
the devils out of doors and make a
heaven of it” (Teachings of the Prophet
Joseph Smith, 316)
Me: Murder is not the unforgiviable sin. He contradicts Jesus.
“Remission of sins by baptism was
not to be preached to murderers. All the
priests of Christendom might pray for a
murderer on the scaffold forever, but
could not avail so much as a gnat towards their forgiveness. There is no
forgiveness for murderers” (Discourses
of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 221). This
teaching is found in Doctrine and Covenants 42:18 that reads, “Thou shalt not
kill; and he that kills shall not have
forgiveness in this world, nor in the
world to come.”
(See Teachings of the Prophet Joseph
Smith, 339.)
1 Corinthians 4:6
King James Version
6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.“There are many things in the Bible which
do not, as they now stand, accord with the
revelations of the Holy Ghost to me.”
Teachings of the Prophet
Joseph Smith, 310
“You believe Adam was made of the dust
of this earth. This I do not believe, though
it is supposed that it is so written in the
Bible; but it is not, to my understanding.
You can write that information to the
States, if you please—that I have publicly
declared that I do not believe that portion
of the Bible as the Christian world do. I
never did, and I never want to. What is the
reason I do not? Because I have come to
understanding, and banished from my
mind all the baby stories my mother
taught me when I was a child.”
Brigham Young
Journal of Discourses 2:6
“Many men say there is one God;
the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost
are only one God! I say that is a strange
God anyhow—three in one, and one in
three! It is a curious organization. All
are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make
the biggest God in all the world. He
would be a wonderfully big God —he
would be a giant or a monster” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph
Smith, 372.).
Me: Since JS "revelations" are not in line with the Bible, that proves he does not listen to God, but to demons.
The statements in 234 proves beyond doubt to honest people with common sense that JS is not a prophet of G_d, nor is he authoritive in anyway, thus garbage like the book of mormon is useless, rubbish.
ME:
That contradicts reproduction, only a spirit can produce spirit babies. A glorified human can only make humans.
Just another stupid teaching of LDS.
You tried to sidestep the above argument. In fact, you ignored it.
236 is a quote of I Cor 15 related to the ressurrected body of Jesus.
222 is a quote from BOM that proves G_d the Father has only a spirit body, He never had a Physical Body.
Alma 31:15 “Holy, holy God; we believe that thou art God, and we believe that thou art holy, and that thou wast a spirit, and that thou art a spirit, and that thou wilt be a spirit forever.”
224 gives BOM texts that shows G_d the Father is only Spirit Body Alma 18:2 — 5, 26 — 28; 22:8 —11; Mosiah 15:3 — 5 ~ God is Spirit
I'm going to be direct here: it amazes me how "anti-cult Christians" blatantly ignore Christ and a person's relationship (like mine) and instead just want to beat up their Joseph Smith piñata. It is shameful behavior.
Please respond to my actual words that I spent the time to write, rather than showing off your misinformed straw man & denying Christ's divinity.
My texts proves that G_d the Father does not have a glorified body. He is only has a Spirit Body. Alma 31:15 “Holy, holy God; we believe that thou art God, and we believe that thou art holy, and that thou wast a spirit, and that thou art a spirit, and that thou wilt be a spirit forever.”
Like it or not, the BOM contradicts all of the rest of worthless, rubish, garbage books that are the result of demons. The methods JS used is clearly from Occult sources.
Helen, Jane Roberts, and Levi Dowling all appear to be
part of a phenomenon known as "spirit writing"
or "automatic writing." This term refers to the
ability to dictate or write material in a relatively
rapid, seemingly effortless and fluent manner.
Interestingly, there are a number of significant
parallels between such instances of automatic
writing and events in the life of the prophet
Joseph Smith. Indeed, historian Lawrence Foster
and other non-Mormon authors have suggested
that automatic writing was the very method
through which Joseph Smith produced the Book
of Mormon.(Ian Stevenson Journal of the American Society for Psychical
Research, October 1978)
Abstract
This chapter takes a look at Crowley's novel Moonchild, where he referenced several modern occultists and friends, one of them being Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism. It shows that this reference to Smith was not accidental, and that this reference reveals Crowley's intense fascination with Smith. It then tries to explain Crowley's fascination with Smith, and discusses some extrinsic similarities between Smith and Crowley. This chapter also studies how the findings are confirmed by the attitude of new modern magical movements towards Smith.The Beast and the Prophet: Aleister Crowley’s Fascination with Joseph Smith1
Get access
Massimo Introvigne
The Beast and the Prophet: Aleister Crowley’s Fascination with Joseph Smith1
Pages
255–284
- Published:
September 2012
Early Mormonism and the magic world view
By D. Michael Quinn · 1987
In this articulate and insightful book, D. Michael Quinn, a professor of history at Brigham Young University, masterfully reconstructs the world view of an earlier age in America, finding ample evidence for treasure seeking and folk magic in Joseph Smith's formative years. Quinn discovers, for example, that Joseph's world was inhabited by supernatural creatures whose existence could be both symbolic and real. He explains that the involvement of the Joseph Smith family in folk magic was not unusual for the times and is important in attempting to understand how early Mormons may have interpreted developments in their history in ways that differ from modern, twentieth-century perceptions. Quinn's impressive research provides a much-needed background for the environment that produced Mormonism's founding prophet. -- from Book Jacket.
You need to read this book freind.
By D. Michael Quinn · 1987
In this articulate and insightful book, D. Michael Quinn, a professor of history at Brigham Young University, masterfully reconstructs the world view of an earlier age in America, finding ample evidence for treasure seeking and folk magic in Joseph Smith's formative years. Quinn discovers, for example, that Joseph's world was inhabited by supernatural creatures whose existence could be both symbolic and real. He explains that the involvement of the Joseph Smith family in folk magic was not unusual for the times and is important in attempting to understand how early Mormons may have interpreted developments in their history in ways that differ from modern, twentieth-century perceptions. Quinn's impressive research provides a much-needed background for the environment that produced Mormonism's founding prophet. -- from Book Jacket.
You need to read this book freind.
LDS Church Authority and New Plural Marriages, 1890-1904
By D. Michael Quinn · 1985
On Being a Mormon Historian
By D. Michael Quinn · 1982
Evidence for the Sexual Side of Joseph Smith's Polygamy
By D. Michael Quinn · 1985
On Being a Mormon Historian
By D. Michael Quinn · 1982
Evidence for the Sexual Side of Joseph Smith's Polygamy
LDS - BY the racist
" I have fed fifty Indians almost day by day for months together. I always give them something, but I never forget to treat them like Indians; and they are always mannerly and kind, and look upon me as their superior. Never let them come into your houses, as the whites did in Utah [County]...
www.christianforums.com
LDS - Mormon Racism
"Negroes in this life are denied the priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. The gospel message of salvation is not carried affirmatively to them... Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings...
www.christianforums.com
Last edited:
@The Learner , I have already read each of these sources, repeatedly.
Now, how about talking about my relationship with Christ?
Now, how about talking about my relationship with Christ?
Curses and Marks: Racial Dispensations and Dispensations of Race in Joseph Smith's Bible Revision and the Book of Abraham
Ryan Stuart BinghamJournal of Mormon History
Vol. 41, No. 3 (July 2015), pp. 22-57 (36 pages)
Published By: University of Illinois Press
Mormons Once Aspired to Be a 'White and Delightsome' People
A historian looks at the legacy of racism in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Black people and Mormonism - Wikipedia
Like many people of his period, Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, harbored racist views. ... For example, many passages in the Book of Mormon speak of dark skin as a curse for sins, as opposed to the “white and delightsome” appearance of the righteous (2 Nephi 30:6, cf. 1 Nephi 12:23, 13:15, 2 Nephi 5:21, Jacob 3:8-9, 3 Nephi 2:14-15, Moses 7:8, 12, 22). A passage in the “Book of Abraham” (1:26–27), that spoke of the Egyptian pharaohs as having Negro ancestry,
Brigham Young, Smith’s successor, also underscored the racist stand of Mormonism: “Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so” (Journal of Discourses 10:109).
Bruce R. McConkie maintained “Negroes are not equal with other races” in spiritual matters and that this is God’s law, not man’s. The future prophet Spencer W. Kimball claimed that in just 15 years from the time of their conversion he had seen Indian people who accepted the Mormon gospel become “white and delightsome.”
But the civil rights movement had its effect the LDS Church. Black leaders urged boycotts of the state of Utah and all Mormon Tabernacle Choir products. The NAACP brought discrimination charges against the Utah Boy Scouts for prohibiting a black member from assuming a senior patrol position. College athletes refused to play Brigham Young University teams. Groups protested at the church’s twice-yearly general conferences in Salt Lake City.
Mormon leadership finally acknowledged that many, perhaps most, of the converts to the Church in Brazil had some degree of black ancestry. While their donations helped build the São Paulo Temple, they were not permitted to attend it.
By 1978, increased social repudiation of racism, coupled with Mormon evangelization in areas with large populations of racially mixed ancestry, led to one of the most drastic reversals in Mormon belief and practice: Those with Negro blood were allowed to attend the temple, and worthy black men could also hold the priesthood.
Dated June 8, 1978, and released the following day, President Kimball’s “Official Declaration—2” (as it is now called in the Mormon scripture Doctrine and Covenants) came after “extended meditation and prayer in the sacred rooms of the holy temple.” He presented the changed doctrine to his counselors, the Twelve Apostles, and other leaders, who approved it unanimously.
ME: the point of the above, is lds leaders finally gave in to public pressure. The early leaders and so-called prophets were racists as such they have no authority and were not even Christians.
1 John 3:15
New American Standard Bible
Everyone who hates his brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him.
I can not speak to your personal relationship with the real Jesus. I leave that up to G_d. 1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
The many texts I posted shows that none of the so-called prophets of the LDS church are of G_d. The Bible tells us to test those who claims to be prohets.
I am curious what tests of a prophet does the Book Of Mormon with links please.
Mormons Once Aspired to Be a 'White and Delightsome' People
A historian looks at the legacy of racism in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Jane , please read all the links, most are not anti-lds apologetics by real Christians.
2 Corinthians 11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Galatians 1:6 - 7
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
2 John 1:10
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
1 Timothy 1:3
As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
1 Timothy 1:10
For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
Colossians 2:22
Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Ephesians 4:14
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Romans 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Hebrews 13:9
Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2 Corinthians 11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Galatians 1:6 - 7
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
2 John 1:10
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
1 Timothy 1:3
As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
1 Timothy 1:10
For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
Colossians 2:22
Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Ephesians 4:14
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Romans 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Hebrews 13:9
Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Last edited:
Similar threads
