Proselyting Techniques of Mormon Missionaries

[The Learner]

Treasures could also be sought by using divining rods, often made from “witch hazel,” or by looking in special stones or crystals. Sometimes when a stone was used, the person would place a stone in a hat and then conjure the guardian treasure spirit. After finding a spot where the cache was supposedly hidden, the seekers would draw a magic circle o. n the ground around the hidden treasureSometimes they would maintain absolute silence, but at other times they would recite magical charms or religious verses used as charms. Whatever the means, money-diggers claimed the need to overcome the guardian spirit who had enchanted the treasure; otherwise the treasure would slip back into the earth. Willard Chase explained that the stone returned by Joseph Jr. was borrowed this time by Hyrum Smith with a promise to return it to Chase when requested. Chase wrote: I believe, some time in 1825, Hiram Smith (b

https://user.xmission.com/~research/central/stoneinahat.pdf

Poor JS had no chance at arriving at any kind of Biblical Truth.

 

[The Learner]

Bye for now, time to do yard work

 

[The Learner]

Once again, you’ve completely ignored everything I’ve said. Pure repulsive foolishness.

Grow up sister in Adam

Seed of man, pro-creates man.
Seed of tree, pro-creates a tree.
Seed of animal, pro-creates an animal…and so forth.

from a great person here Everyone Goes to Heaven

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Grow up sister in Adam

Seed of man, pro-creates man.
Seed of tree, pro-creates a tree.
Seed of animal, pro-creates an animal…and so forth.

from a great person here Everyone Goes to Heaven

Personal attacks which literally have nothing to do with what I said.

Dude: this behavior of your is not fitting of someone who follows Christ or even disires to. I LOVE Christ. I strive for real truth, my won relationship with Christ. Treating others with love and respect.

And with that, I bid you adiu, praying that you come ever closer to Christ. May He watch over you. I am placing you on ignore now.

 

[laBonhomme]

Mormons are interesting, their "Christology" per se I wouldn't address, I know that's a "theological topic" for some private schools, which is fine, but I didn't go to Dallas Theological Seminary, which if I'm not mistaken is the college that first put that on the internet, even if they didn't invent it, patent it, and trademark it, you know?

I read that as carefully as I could, and civically yes. When they say that the Native Americans are the same as the tribes of Dan and Ruben (Ephraimites) who were spiritually lost in the Israelite Civil War because of their apostacy with Babylon, that's true. That's metaphysically true, logically, well, are you even a Mormon theologian yourself? Preaching is mostly narrative and rhetoric.

That the Indians are exactly the same as the apostate tribes, yes. Are all their metaphysics perfect? Dunno. But they have John Quincy Adams on their side, and relationships with Christ are private matters and personally spiritual anyway. Close enough for government work, that's my opinion of the Latter Day Saints.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

What of your currecent beliefs are in the Book of Mormon and where? Example: Where does BOM say you all can become gods?

Exaltation and eternal progression

If a person receives exaltation, they inherit all the attributes of God the Father, including godhood. Mormons believe that these people will become gods and goddesses in the afterlife, and will have "all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge".

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia › wiki

Mormon cosmology - Wikipedia​

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Exaltation and eternal progression

If a person receives exaltation, they inherit all the attributes of God the Father, including godhood. Mormons believe that these people will become gods and goddesses in the afterlife, and will have "all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge".

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia › wiki

Mormon cosmology - Wikipedia​

Actual "Mormon" here, giving fuller context:

In traditional Christianity, God and man are two entirely different "species" (for want of a better word). God's always existed and a newborn human has existed for <1 year.

LDS Christianity believes differently: God and humans are the same "species"-- the Father is literally the Father of our spirits. The Father has always existed, and so have we. A newborn human's body is <1 year old, but their spirit has existed for billions+ years. The difference between God (Father, Son, and Spirit) and man is that each member of the Godhead are perfect-- not a single blemish on them. Perfect righteousness, love, justice, mercy, etc. Versus I'm my lazy self drenched in wretched sin.

Through the power of Christ's atonement (and only through that), my filthy self can be made clean. 100% pure white clean. Not 99.99999999%, but a pure 100% clean. We will be made perfect, even as the Father is. Standing with God in the afterlife, joint heirs with Christ. One with God, even as Christ is, becoming like Him. That's the entire purpose of Christ's sacrifice- that 100% pure clean. Great chapters on this include John 17. We never replace our Father (that's impossible), but rather become one with Him. There's still only going to be that single glory, goodness, mercy, justice, love, etc. This is exaltation: becoming like God. It's about being made clean, not about "super powers".

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Mormons are interesting, their "Christology" per se I wouldn't address, I know that's a "theological topic" for some private schools, which is fine, but I didn't go to Dallas Theological Seminary, which if I'm not mistaken is the college that first put that on the internet, even if they didn't invent it, patent it, and trademark it, you know?

I read that as carefully as I could, and civically yes. When they say that the Native Americans are the same as the tribes of Dan and Ruben (Ephraimites) who were spiritually lost in the Israelite Civil War because of their apostacy with Babylon, that's true. That's metaphysically true, logically, well, are you even a Mormon theologian yourself? Preaching is mostly narrative and rhetoric.

That the Indians are exactly the same as the apostate tribes, yes. Are all their metaphysics perfect? Dunno. But they have John Quincy Adams on their side, and relationships with Christ are private matters and personally spiritual anyway. Close enough for government work, that's my opinion of the Latter Day Saints.

I'm not sure if there's a question in here... can you help me out?

 

[Mr E]

Actual "Mormon" here, giving fuller context:

In traditional Christianity, God and man are two entirely different "species" (for want of a better word). God's always existed and a newborn human has existed for <1 year.

LDS Christianity believes differently: God and humans are the same "species"-- the Father is literally the Father of our spirits. The Father has always existed, and so have we. A newborn human's body is <1 year old, but their spirit has existed for billions+ years. The difference between God (Father, Son, and Spirit) and man is that each member of the Godhead are perfect-- not a single blemish on them. Perfect righteousness, love, justice, mercy, etc. Versus I'm my lazy self drenched in wretched sin.

Through the power of Christ's atonement (and only through that), my filthy self can be made clean. 100% pure white clean. Not 99.99999999%, but a pure 100% clean. We will be made perfect, even as the Father is. Standing with God in the afterlife, joint heirs with Christ. One with God, even as Christ is, becoming like Him. That's the entire purpose of Christ's sacrifice- that 100% pure clean. Great chapters on this include John 17. We never replace our Father (that's impossible), but rather become one with Him. There's still only going to be that single glory, goodness, mercy, justice, love, etc. This is exaltation: becoming like God. It's about being made clean, not about "super powers".

That's a very sanitized version of Mormon beliefs. Nicely "Christianized."

Ask a pair of Mormon missionaries to explain their understanding and beliefs and you'll get something more like this.


God was once a man just like us. And man can become a God, just like Him. Married on earth, is married forever in heaven and eventually as husband and wife, a couple who has been married in the temple will rule as gods over their own planet, making spirit babies to populate it.

-or something close to that.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

That's a very sanitized version of Mormon beliefs. Nicely "Christianized."

Ask a pair of Mormon missionaries to explain their understanding and beliefs and you'll get something more like this.


God was once a man just like us. And man can become a God, just like Him. Married on earth, is married forever in heaven and eventually as husband and wife, a couple who has been married in the temple will rule as gods over their own planet, making spirit babies to populate it.

-or something close to that.

It's actual beliefs, explained in context and in words that actually to cross language gaps. Too often things get lost in that language gap going both ways. Oh the examples I could give (again, going both ways). For example, that same pair of 18 year olds your referencing likely think that you believe:
- That the Father/Son/Spirit are a single person whom talks to itself while Christ is being baptized
- That saying someone saying "yeah I believe in Christ" gives them full-blown license to sin.
Why do these 18 year olds think you believe this? Because YOU told them you believe it! -- accidentally. Language gaps are real and create lot of misunderstandings.

Rather than flaming others, my goal is to better understand my neighbor and communicate what is ACTUALLY believed, both ways. We all better live the Second Great Commandment that way.

 

[Mr E]

It's actual beliefs, explained in context and in words that actually to cross language gaps. Too often things get lost in that language gap going both ways. Oh the examples I could give (again, going both ways). For example, that same pair of 18 year olds your referencing likely think that you believe:
- That the Father/Son/Spirit are a single person whom talks to itself while Christ is being baptized
- That saying someone saying "yeah I believe in Christ" gives them full-blown license to sin.
Why do these 18 year olds think you believe this? Because YOU told them you believe it! -- accidentally. Language gaps are real and create lot of misunderstandings.

Rather than flaming others, my goal is to better understand my neighbor and communicate what is ACTUALLY believed, both ways. We all better live the Second Great Commandment that way.

I haven’t flamed anyone, have I? And you didn’t even attempt to address the substance of my post.

I presented exactly what was presented to me, regarding Mormon beliefs, from Mormons. I have a house in Hurricane, Utah and I’ve hand many good conversations.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I haven’t flamed anyone, have I? And you didn’t even attempt to address the substance of my post.

I presented exactly what was presented to me, regarding Mormon beliefs, from Mormons. I have a house in Hurricane, Utah and I’ve hand many good conversations.

To clarify: I did not mean to imply that you were flaming. I apologize if that was the message that came across-- such was not my intention. The comment about flaming was more directed in generic, as I've encountered so many "Christian" flamers, including on this forum. Such flaming is a poison no one needs. It really irks me-- we are all called to love our neighbor.

I'll go through each of your points in detail here, so I apologize for the choppiness:

God was once a man just like us. And man can become a God, just like Him.

The Father's past is actually a speculation, not solidified doctrine and actually extremely seldomly comes up in actual LDS Christian discourse. The two original quotes on the matter (yes, there's only 2) aren't scripture and in context actually are focused on our potential to be become like God (done through Christ's sacrifice). All other quotes are are directive of these 2 original. To understand the speculation, one must first actually understand exaltation and God's power to make us clean like Him. Again, it's about “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect” (Matthew 5:48) rather than super powers. I personally find that many Protestants get really hung up on Bruce Almighty style super powers and planets.

Married on earth, is married forever in heaven and eventually as husband and wife

Eternal families is a central belief and a big deal. And I ain't going to apologize for at all. My relationship with my husband is not like some temporary training wheel to later be discarded.

a couple who has been married in the temple

A technical correction here: you can get married wherever, but a sealing must be performed in the temple and honored by the couple (God of course is going to honor His part).

will rule as gods over their own planet, making spirit babies to populate it.

This is really missing the point.

 

[The Learner]

Personal attacks which literally have nothing to do with what I said.

Dude: this behavior of your is not fitting of someone who follows Christ or even disires to. I LOVE Christ. I strive for real truth, my won relationship with Christ. Treating others with love and respect.

And with that, I bid you adiu, praying that you come ever closer to Christ. May He watch over you. I am placing you on ignore now.

growing up is not an attack. adiu is a french word that was not in existence when JS wrote the BOM.
cool to both

 

[The Learner]

Actual "Mormon" here, giving fuller context:

In traditional Christianity, God and man are two entirely different "species" (for want of a better word). God's always existed and a newborn human has existed for <1 year.

LDS Christianity believes differently: God and humans are the same "species"-- the Father is literally the Father of our spirits. The Father has always existed, and so have we. A newborn human's body is <1 year old, but their spirit has existed for billions+ years. The difference between God (Father, Son, and Spirit) and man is that each member of the Godhead are perfect-- not a single blemish on them. Perfect righteousness, love, justice, mercy, etc. Versus I'm my lazy self drenched in wretched sin.

Through the power of Christ's atonement (and only through that), my filthy self can be made clean. 100% pure white clean. Not 99.99999999%, but a pure 100% clean. We will be made perfect, even as the Father is. Standing with God in the afterlife, joint heirs with Christ. One with God, even as Christ is, becoming like Him. That's the entire purpose of Christ's sacrifice- that 100% pure clean. Great chapters on this include John 17. We never replace our Father (that's impossible), but rather become one with Him. There's still only going to be that single glory, goodness, mercy, justice, love, etc. This is exaltation: becoming like God. It's about being made clean, not about "super powers".

" God and humans are the same "species"" Puts LDS, Mormonism completely outside of real Christian Beliefs.

 

[The Learner]

I'm not sure if there's a question in here... can you help me out?

Native Amerians and Jewish DNA are not the same.
Native Americans from Central Asia.
Jewish carry the Cohanim Modal Haplotype. Native Americans do not have that.

 

[The Learner]

That's a very sanitized version of Mormon beliefs. Nicely "Christianized."

Ask a pair of Mormon missionaries to explain their understanding and beliefs and you'll get something more like this.


God was once a man just like us. And man can become a God, just like Him. Married on earth, is married forever in heaven and eventually as husband and wife, a couple who has been married in the temple will rule as gods over their own planet, making spirit babies to populate it.

-or something close to that.

Sorry not marriage in Heaven. "till death do us part"

 

[The Learner]

That's a very sanitized version of Mormon beliefs. Nicely "Christianized."

Ask a pair of Mormon missionaries to explain their understanding and beliefs and you'll get something more like this.


God was once a man just like us. And man can become a God, just like Him. Married on earth, is married forever in heaven and eventually as husband and wife, a couple who has been married in the temple will rule as gods over their own planet, making spirit babies to populate it.

-or something close to that.

Isiah 43:10 Brother

 

[The Learner]

I haven’t flamed anyone, have I? And you didn’t even attempt to address the substance of my post.

I presented exactly what was presented to me, regarding Mormon beliefs, from Mormons. I have a house in Hurricane, Utah and I’ve hand many good conversations.

No you have Not. Jane has a persecution complex, as does many LDS do -- that is why she makes false actusations.

 

[The Learner]

To clarify: I did not mean to imply that you were flaming. I apologize if that was the message that came across-- such was not my intention. The comment about flaming was more directed in generic, as I've encountered so many "Christian" flamers, including on this forum. Such flaming is a poison no one needs. It really irks me-- we are all called to love our neighbor.

I'll go through each of your points in detail here, so I apologize for the choppiness:


The Father's past is actually a speculation, not solidified doctrine and actually extremely seldomly comes up in actual LDS Christian discourse. The two original quotes on the matter (yes, there's only 2) aren't scripture and in context actually are focused on our potential to be become like God (done through Christ's sacrifice). All other quotes are are directive of these 2 original. To understand the speculation, one must first actually understand exaltation and God's power to make us clean like Him. Again, it's about “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect” (Matthew 5:48) rather than super powers. I personally find that many Protestants get really hung up on Bruce Almighty style super powers and planets.


Eternal families is a central belief and a big deal. And I ain't going to apologize for at all. My relationship with my husband is not like some temporary training wheel to later be discarded.


A technical correction here: you can get married wherever, but a sealing must be performed in the temple and honored by the couple (God of course is going to honor His part).



This is really missing the point.

Please describe the temple rituals in detail. Thanks Daniel

 

[The Learner]

1 Timothy 3
Easy-to-Read Version

3 It is a true statement that anyone whose goal is to serve as an elder[a] has his heart set on a good work. 2 An elder must be such a good man that no one can rightly criticize him. He must be faithful to his wife.[c] He must have self-control and be wise. He must be respected by others. He must be ready to help people by welcoming them into his home. He must be a good teacher. 3 He must not drink too much, and he must not be someone who likes to fight. He must be gentle and peaceful. He must not be someone who loves money. 4 He must be a good leader of his own family. This means that his children obey him with full respect. 5 If a man does not know how to lead his own family, he will not be able to take care of God’s church.

The young men going door to door are NOT ELDERS!!!!!