Protestantism is a sin....

[Instant]

I can understand where you are coming from but even the Catechism states in part 1, section 2, Chapter 3, Article 9, Paragraph 3, Section 1, Sub paragraph 817-819:

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

Source : Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 1 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 9 PARAGRAPH 3

So the Protestants now or not held liable for there ancestors sin. The way to win someone to your side is not to hit them over the head with a hammer like in your op but in gentleness and with humility show them the way to the truth.

In order to win anyone, you first have to prove that the Catholic Church is indeed a continuation of the Church founded in Acts. We know that is not the case. It was founded more than 200 years later, and when it was formed, it went away from the order the early church established. You can clearly see how they mixed paganism into their worship to win people from other religions. One might argue that the intentions were good, but this is not allowed by God.

In my case, I was baptized in a Catholic Church as a baby, but was not raised Catholic. My parents left the Catholic Church and became Methodist when I was 2 years old. I remained United Methodist till I accepted Jesus at the age of 17, and wound up choosing to join a Pentecostal Holiness Church. I heard all the arguments from Catholics about them being "the Church," and how everyone else was in rebellion by protesting the RCC. As such, I investigated it in light of scripture. I have read the Bible cover to cover at least 20 times. From the Protestant point of view, Catholics mixed paganism in their worship and changed things like Diana worship to Mary worship. They changed worship of idols to praying to statues of departed saints. Having listened to Mass and looked into the RCC, it was obvious the protestant position is correct. As such, there was no sin in leaving the Catholic Church. The bigger sin is remaining. Anyone that prays to statues, looks at Mary as a go between to Jesus, and does things like that are in sin.

 

[Instant]

I can understand where you are coming from but even the Catechism states in part 1, section 2, Chapter 3, Article 9, Paragraph 3, Section 1, Sub paragraph 817-819:

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

Source : Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 1 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 9 PARAGRAPH 3

So the Protestants now or not held liable for there ancestors sin. The way to win someone to your side is not to hit them over the head with a hammer like in your op but in gentleness and with humility show them the way to the truth.

By the way, no offense was intended in anything I said. It is nice to meet you. I just do not believe that the RCC is "the church." I see a lot of issues with Protestants too. They held onto too many things in the RCC. They should have returned to the New Testament to see how the early church operated and started fresh. That is the only way to fix things.

 

[amigo de christo]

By the way, no offense was intended in anything I said. It is nice to meet you. I just do not believe that the RCC is "the church." I see a lot of issues with Protestants too. They held onto too many things in the RCC. They should have returned to the New Testament to see how the early church operated and started fresh. That is the only way to fix things.

That IS the only way to fix things . Learn those bibles and learn that pattern well . Every word in it , is for our good .
But unto those who hear and yet do not and try and change that orignial pattern , they wreck destruction upon themselvs
and all who would sit under them .
Its real simple . It truly is . OPEN BIBLES and let us all learn that pattern well . Keeping and embracing on the heart
EVERY word JESUS ever said , Every word of GOD , every word the apostels wrote . Love it all and feast upon it daily .

 

[theefaith]

The harlot did not First write those letters . That is my proof .
IT WAS PETER , PAUL , JAMES , JUDE , JOHN .
Sure scribes kept recopying the letters . GOD was in control on that .
But the harlot never kept to the teaching of those letters .
How many have you heard say , we believe the bible , we have the bible , YET they teach lies .
EXACTLY . THE RCC was no different . Men may have copied down the correct copies , but that harlot never taught the whole rightly divided
word a day in her life . She is dangerous my friend . My heart is for you my friend . I am not the enemy just because i speak truth .
Come ye out from amongst her , receive Ye life in Christ and be set free .
You are loved my friend and in my prayers . Hurry , dont look back , Just come on out of her . Come to the one true glorious life saving
and life changing Christ Jesus .

impossible to have Christ apart from his church and his sacraments

the holy church teaches was Christ commanded and wrote scripture

 

[theefaith]

Did he not just say that after we believe we should be baptized . Slow down . Slow down my friend .
You need to understand that it is truly by the grace of GOD that one is saved . THAT HIS GRACE
draws us to FAITH in CHRIST and from there we stand in the grace of God .
Anyone who is a true lamb , IS A HEARER and A DOER . For the love of GOD has been shed upon their heart .

Not without the sacraments and especially baptism

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[busrider]

By the way, no offense was intended in anything I said. It is nice to meet you.

None taken and nice to meet you. I believe that the Orthodox Church is close to the one true Church and the Catholic Church split from them in 1054 but the Catholic Church are the second lung of the one Church. No I don't belong to either one but I am affiliated with another body that has Apostolic succession. I should have said "show them the way to your position" instead of "show them the way to the truth."

I was a convert to Catholicism and an un convert because of the current pope. I don't think any Protestant church that doesn't have apostolic succession is close to the New Testament Church, just my thoughts

 

[theefaith]

There is no way to prove that the Catholic Church is in the truth. You are taking what they say by faith, and I have no faith in the Catholic Church. I do not believe they are following the traditions of the Apostles. They created a church that would appeal to Christians and Pagans. They did this on their own. Can you prove otherwise? There is no resemblance between the RCC and what we read about regarding the early church in the Bible.

there is only one true church one new covenant Jn 10:16 founded by Christ (not men) on Peter and the apostles and their successors Matt 16:18 18:18 etc.

 

[theefaith]

There is no way to prove that the Catholic Church is in the truth. You are taking what they say by faith, and I have no faith in the Catholic Church. I do not believe they are following the traditions of the Apostles. They created a church that would appeal to Christians and Pagans. They did this on their own. Can you prove otherwise? There is no resemblance between the RCC and what we read about regarding the early church in the Bible.

not Bible alone but teaching of the church thru the apostles acts 2:42

 

[theefaith]

I addressed baptism. It is to be done by emersion only after someone accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Baptism does not save, but it is an outward sign of what took place when a person was born again. We are to be baptized in obedience to the Lord.

you won’t find that in scripture

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

 

[Instant]

impossible to have Christ apart from his church and his sacraments

the holy church teaches was Christ commanded and wrote scripture

The Catholic Church is not Christ's church. It never was and never will be. I believe that Christ is the author of the Bible, but he used human vessels to pen it.

 

[amigo de christo]

not Bible alone but teaching of the church thru the apostles acts 2:42

That is why it seems even the popes often contradicted themselves .
THEY should have stuck to the bible .

 

[theefaith]

Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” not biblical
“Faith alone” never given in prophesy in the OT.
You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical!

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!
Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

You cannot enter a covenant by “faith alone” must be a ritual outward sign!
Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments! Jn 1:16

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice!
The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10


The promise (sacred oath or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery
Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

 

[Instant]

not Bible alone but teaching of the church thru the apostles acts 2:42

Those teachings of the Catholic Church are not teachings of the apostles. I hold to the Bible, but reject the extra-Biblical teachings of the RCC.

 

[amigo de christo]

The Catholic Church is not Christ's church. It never was and never will be. I believe that Christ is the author of the Bible, but he used human vessels to pen it.

No its not . exactly . The church of Christ are the true lambs and they eat not of the table of Christ and of belial .
They made a choice . TRUTH ALONE , JESUS ONLY . And thus in their kjb they will remain . Learning
and testing all things men teach , against what the bible says .

 

[Instant]

you won’t find that in scripture

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

The repentant thief on the cross was not baptized, but Jesus said that he would be in paradise with him that day.

 

[theefaith]

I can understand where you are coming from but even the Catechism states in part 1, section 2, Chapter 3, Article 9, Paragraph 3, Section 1, Sub paragraph 817-819:

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

Source : Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 1 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 9 PARAGRAPH 3

So the Protestants now or not held liable for there ancestors sin. The way to win someone to your side is not to hit them over the head with a hammer like in your op but in gentleness and with humility show them the way to the truth.

sorry but the true cannot be in error and does not apologize for anything
It is a kingdom with a king Jesus Christ

don’t accept anything done by the apostate modernists after 1958 especially the so called catechism
Try finding that in the catechism of the council of Trent

 

[amigo de christo]

The repentant thief on the cross was not baptized, but Jesus said that he would be in paradise with him that day.

Yep . FAITH IN JESUS SAVES . And every true lamb will also get baptized , for the SPIRIT would bid them to do so .
But as we just saw , in your example , ITS FAITH IN JESUS THAT SAVES . So on that note , I say its TIME TO PRAISE THE GLORIOUS LORD .

 

[theefaith]

The Catholic Church is not Christ's church. It never was and never will be. I believe that Christ is the author of the Bible, but he used human vessels to pen it.

then what is? According to scripture pease?

 

[Instant]

There is one thing I will say about baptism. While we know it is possible to be saved without having been baptized, because of the repentant thief on the cross, one could argue that to refuse to be baptized after getting saved would be a sin. As I said before, we are told to be baptized and we should do that, but I also want to remind everyone that to be baptized is to be completely under water, not sprinkled. You also need to understand what you are doing. There is no need to baptize a baby.

 

[theefaith]

That is why it seems even the popes often contradicted themselves .
THEY should have stuck to the bible .

Examples please?
Where is the doctrine of the (Bible alone)
in scripture?