StanJ said:
What scripture? You didn't provide any.
Post #19 & #17 & #15
The scriptures show that not every believer had the Holy Spirit until Paul, John or Peter laid hands on them to be baptized by the Holy Spirit. Can't help it if you won't acknowledge that as such.
Did you now the way Luke had written the account that they had only believed in the "things" Philip was preaching about instead of writing plainly that they had believed in Jesus Christ? And did you note that they did not speak in tongues when they did finally received the promise of the Spirit once their sights were lifted higher, including Simon's as to Whom was actually doing this?
It also is typical of those who are caught up in a false doctrine to use this same tactic on those they can't convince of their corrupted view of scripture.
Are you sure you are not the one wanting that reference to validate your false teaching that not every believer has the Holy Spirit just to promote them to seek a baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues?
How is it that you can stop someone taking what you teach and say... "if you do not speak in tongues, you do not have the Holy Spirit and therefore you are not saved"? when they can point out that one is not born again as in not born of the Spirit unless they have the Holy Spirit to say that they are saved?
It is you that is on that slippery slope, brother.
I have no idea what this means. Paul speaks of a few things in Eph 4:4-6, and I'll itemize them for you.
- One Body
- One Spirit
- One Hope
- One Lord
- One Faith
- One Baptism
- One God
Now in this context, what are you trying to say?
Paul is saying that everything in that list ties in with our salvation. Separate that, then you are dividing that hope and giving another calling for believers to heed and chase after.
StanJ said:
It's very hard to explain to someone who doesn't believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. You see the scripture and yet you refuse to accept them, so why would I bother. I'll give you the scripture and pray God will increase your understanding.
- Rom 12:12
- 2 Cor 4:16
- Eph 4:23
- Col 3:10
- Titus 3:5
- John 14:26
- Acts 13:52
Romans 12:11 Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer; 13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.
In conext, there is no mention about the baptism with Holy Spirit with evidence of tongues for believers to seek after here, nor a continual filling of the Spirit.
2 Corinthians 4:15 For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God. 16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. 17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
If any one wants to apply this reference to the secret of renewing the inward man day by day, they would teach receiving light affliction where our outward man may perish to renew the inward man day by day, and I know that is not what it is saying for you to use that reference in that way about the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Verse 23 is not referring to the Holy Spirit. This was written in oppistion of this below.
Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
_________
Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: 11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but
Christ is all, and in all.
Your use of verse 10 is ignoring the reality & promise of verse 11. That means every believer has the Holy Spirit when they were saved. To infer that a believer needs to fill temselves up with the Spirit is denying the promise that He will never forsake us. We are always Spirit-filled as promised otherwise that makes God unable to keep His promise.It is also important to note how this renewing is being done; which is renewed
in knowledge after the image of him that created him.
Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
That reference is about our salvation; when we were saved and how. It is not a repeatable event.
John 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. 27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
That reference is about when the disciples & future believers shall receive the promise of the Comforter when Jesus Christ was no longer present with us but had ascended to the Father which He said He was going to do at the beginning of 14th chapter in preparing a place for them.
Acts 13:51 But they shook off the dust of their feet against them, and came unto Iconium. 52 And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost.
That reference was about after they were persecuted and had left the city dusting off their feet against them and the reason they were filled with joy is because Jesus is still Lord as they were still filled with the Holy Ghost. No one can understand how any one can be joyful in the face of persecution or how the gospel is not being well received; but it did not deter these disciples for they were filled with the Holy Ghost which is why they were filled with joy as Jesus is still Lord in spite of the events.
So in spite of the scriptural references, you have yet to apply them in the way you want them to be used for validating for saved believers to be seeking a baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, let alone, if this is also what you are preaching which is to seek the Holy Spirit to be filled by Him for a continual renewing supernatural experience of the inward man. All you are preaching is for believers to move away from their resting place in Jesus Christ as if He was not finished with them when He had saved them as if they lacked the promise of the permanently indwelling Holy Spirit. I would call that labouring in unbelief and voiding faith in Jesus Christ in departing from Him.
Hebrews 4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world....9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
