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Featured Prove the pre-tribulation rapture

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Avalon1, Jul 2, 2020.

  1. Avalon1

    Avalon1 Active Member

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    Give me your best verses that support the pre-tribulation rapture. I actually know quite a lot about it having been to churches that teach the pre-tribulation rapture. As you may know I'm a post-tribulationist, I did a thread about it Guide To The Post Tribulation where I gave all my scriptural evidence in support of the post-tribulation rapture. This thread is to discuss the pre-tribulation rapture. So feel free to discuss and I'll read every post and hear it out.

    Please keep it civil and NO insults it WILL BE REPORTED! We're all going to Heaven no matter which rapture we believe.
     
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  2. Avalon1

    Avalon1 Active Member

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    I'm looking for verses that indicate that the rapture is going to happen before the tribulation.
     
  3. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Which trib?
     
  4. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    Here is the list of verses that prove the pre-Trib rapture:
     
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  5. JunChosen

    JunChosen Active Member

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    Hahaha. That's really funny coming from a writer of Bible studies!
     
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  6. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    ... and here are verses that PROVE:

    Mid-Tribulation Rapture --


    Post-Tribulation Rapture --


    Pan-Tribulation Rapture --



    Post Millennial Rapture -- Zech. 14:5; Matt. 13:39-41 & 49; Matt. 24:29-31; Lke 12:36; Lke 14:14; Jhn 14:2-3; 1 Thess. 4:13-18; 2 Tim. 4:8, 1 Pet. 5:4; Col. 3:4; Rev. 19:14; Rev. 20:4-6; Rev. 20:7; Rev. 20:13



    But who cares what Scripture says, when religious doctrines are so much more valuable.
    Bobby Jo
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
  7. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    You may or may not get much from Pretribbers. I've been a Postribber since 1972 or thereabouts, and have a long history in dealing with Pretribbers. Keep in mind that if you're in an error, you're not in the Holy Spirit, though in every other way you may still operate in the Holy Spirit. But in an area where you proclaim a false doctrine you *do not* have the Holy Spirit.

    So what do I find when dealing with ardent Pretribbers? I find the works of the flesh! I find hate, accusation, anger, and all sorts of deviousness, because there simply is no means, by the Holy Spirit, to defend the position. It creates intense frustration for those who really believe their position is biblical, and yet they are powerless in driving their points home.

    The strength in Postrib is that it is actually explicitly taught. 2 Thes 2 is my best example. Reducing it down to a simple paraphrase, Paul says, "Christ won't come for the Church until the time when Antichrist is destroyed." Simple. The Holy Spirit backs up His own inspired words.

    Over the years I've a number of times heard Pretribbers admit they have no explicit theology to support their position. They quickly claim that neither do Postribbers have explicit defense in the Scriptures, though I've just proven that wrong! And yet here is this amazing admission that they don't have explicit Scriptural support!

    What they then do to support their position is claim the doctrine was intended, by Paul, to be a "mystery," discernible only by private, or special, revelation. Scary stuff!
     
  8. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Why would you be looking for those verses since you have already committed yourself to a post-tribulation Rapture (if ever there can be such an absurd thing)? Once a person commits himself to man-made delusions, he is blinded to the truth. And there are a lot of man-made delusions being posted on Christian forums today.
     
  9. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    Good post Randy.
    But what must be clarified is the destination of those who will be gathered when Jesus Returns. Matthew 24:31
    Is it to heaven, as many like to think? NO: because Jesus is Returning to the earth and will commence His Millennium reign.
    We Christians, are the people who will be with Him, in various roles in the Kingdom. Revelation 5:9-10
     
  10. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I've long told you brother that I'm a strong Postribulationist. We share that belief in common. When it comes to *where* we go at the Coming of the Lord, we may differ. But at that point we're in the realm of speculation. And I'm not sure it counts as real currency in God's Kingdom. ;)
     
  11. JunChosen

    JunChosen Active Member

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    From what I read of the Bible I don't see any scripture verses that teach a millennial reign of Jesus on earth when He returns. What I found is the opposite from the beliefs of many others and you as well.

    But if you and many others like you are referring to Revelation 20 no where does it teach there that there will be a 1000 year reign of Christ on this sinful earth!. In fact, this earth will be destroyed when He comes.

    Please enlighten me.

    To God Be The Glory
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
  12. JunChosen

    JunChosen Active Member

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    I beg to differ. We do know were we are gong when Jesus returns.

    I'll have to reserve my answer at the moment until @keras give a response to my comments.

    To God Be The Glory
     
  13. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    You're certainly entitled to your opinion. But why wait until someone answers? Give your opinion now, if it is that important!

    This brother has long proclaimed the importance that we see the 6th seal of Revelation as a prophecy of a great sun flare bringing judgment upon the earth, a radioactive emission that will cause great grief. This is his sort of "mission statement," and his mantra. For this reason I'm suspicious, because on its face, it seems only to be an opinion of his, which is being delivered as a virtual prophecy.

    Of equal importance is his deunciation of anybody who thinks that at the Rapture of the Church Christians will "go to heaven." I find that rather bizarre, since we are told we will be "caught up into the sky" to meet the Lord at his Coming. Furthermore, his big deal is that Christians will be sort of swept away to gather at Jerusalem. Well, I know that ultimately we will all be part of a gigantic New Jerusalem on earth. But I'm not convinced that is where we will immediately go at the Rapture.

    Again, I find these things less important than proper Christian ministry to each other and to the world at present, in preparation for the day of Christ's judgment. Who the Antichrist is, what is 666, and where we will go at the Rapture fall into a special category for me called "speculation!" ;)
     
  14. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    It isn't speculation that we Christians will go to live in all of the holy Land. many OT prophesies say this and even Paul in Romans 9:24-26 confirms it. John sees us there in Revelation 7:9.
    I know many assume that they are in heaven, but that really is speculation, without any Bible support.
    The reign of King Jesus on earth for 1000 years is mentioned six times in Rev 20. It is also referrred to in Hosea 6:2 and Jesus prophesies it in Luke 13:32....after today and tomorrow, [two days, that Jesus to in heaven, is 2000 years earth time] then I will reach My reward. [His Mill reign]
    Jesus only destroys the attacking armies at Armageddon, when He Returns. Revelation 19:11-21
    He does instigate a reset of our civilization a few years before that, on His Day of fiery wrath, the Sixth seal; A worldwide disaster that is prophesied over 100 times in the Bible. Revelation 6:12-17, Zephaniah 1:14-18, 2 Peter 3:7, +
    Which BTW will not be a 'radioactive emission from the sun', but a massive ejection of superheated Hydrogen Plasma, a known phenomena, that scientists warn could happen at any time. We should know about it and be prepared.
     
  15. Rocky Wiley

    Rocky Wiley Active Member

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    Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
    Martha's brother was a believer who died before Jesus did and he would rise when Jesus completed his purpose.

    If I, as a believer, will never die, the above scripture must mean I will go directly to heaven after my body dies.

    The resurrections of the dead means all those who never believed or had a chance to believe before they died.
    All of those who died without ever being able to know Jesus would be judged by their works in the resurrection of the dead spoken of in Revelation.
     
  16. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Read Rev. 20.
    Bobby Jo
     
  17. JunChosen

    JunChosen Active Member

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    Why ask me to read Revelation 20? What part of Post #11 did you not understand?

    To God Be The Glory
     
  18. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    What part of Rev. 20 do you not understand?

    Some people prefer their milk in a glass, some in a bottle, and some from a momma. Or MAYBE some prefer to feign "hunger".
    Bobby Jo
     
  19. JunChosen

    JunChosen Active Member

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    I understand Revelation 20 very well and you will never find a verse there that teaches that Jesus will reign on earth for 1000 literal years on earth! This is the teaching of many in Christendom which by the way is false.

    For example, the binding of Satan in verse 2 happened at the cross. Matthew 12:29 reads: Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? And then he will spoil his house.

    Has the binding or loosing of Satan been over 1000 yrs? Definitely, from the cross up to the present time there has been almost 2000 yrs.

    Did God lie?

    To God Be The Glory
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
  20. JunChosen

    JunChosen Active Member

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    Show me and please explain each claim of one thousand years that I may understand.

    I don't trust scientists.

    "And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession: and I will be their God." Genesis 17:8

    What??!! An everlasting possession? But according to the language of 2 Peter 3:10 that the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burnt up.

    The above is not language of a phenomena rather it's language of destruction as per Rev.21:2 as the first heaven and the first earth were passed away.

    To God Be The Glory
     
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