Yes, God has always had a plan. All we can really do is get into the place that He has for each of us in that plan and do what He has laid out for us to do.
put on your spiritual armor
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@GEN2REV, @amadeus [and @many others in these forums],
Agree that Eternal Security is not Biblical.
AND, seeing that the "wages of sin [singular] is death."
Tell me, how many sins did Jesus redeem to those He came for? Did Matthew 1:21 indicate, "all but one?" And, if one sin is not redeemed, where do you suppose these people will end up? RIGHT, into hell!!!
In another place Jesus declared:
26) But ye believe not, because ye are NOT of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28) And I give unto them ETERNAL LIFE; and they shall NEVER perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Is verse 28 above Scripture? If it is, why then do you people not hear it? Is it because your hearing is dull???
If God is for us who can be against us?
To God Be The Glory
Agree that Eternal Security is not Biblical.
AND, seeing that the "wages of sin [singular] is death."
Tell me, how many sins did Jesus redeem to those He came for? Did Matthew 1:21 indicate, "all but one?" And, if one sin is not redeemed, where do you suppose these people will end up? RIGHT, into hell!!!
In another place Jesus declared:
26) But ye believe not, because ye are NOT of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28) And I give unto them ETERNAL LIFE; and they shall NEVER perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Is verse 28 above Scripture? If it is, why then do you people not hear it? Is it because your hearing is dull???
If God is for us who can be against us?
To God Be The Glory
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GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
I'm not understanding your argument.
Could you be more specific, in less words, about what it is you feel we aren't hearing please?
Your first sentence appears to agree that OSAS is not Biblical.
Then you seem to go on to support OSAS?
Behold
Well-Known Member
To believe that Eternal Security is not "biblical" is to believe that Eternal Life is not Jesus.
See, eternal life IS eternal security.
Its the security of having Eternal Life.
Eternal LIFE< is Jesus Himself.....who said...>"i Am the Resurrection AND THE LIFE".
The Apostle John told you that you can "Know you have eternal life"< because this LIFE is in JESUS, who Himself IS ETERNAL LIFE.
So, how can THAT be : Eternal Security?
Like this......>"Christ IN YOU< the hope of Glory"...(Glory is Heaven).
So, if you are BORN AGAIN....then you have Christ in you, and Christ is Eternal life, so then you have it. ....And by having Eternal Life, who is Christ in YOU...you have Eternal Security.
OSAS.........simply means that once you are born again, you are always born again,
Once you have Christ in you, this proves you are born again.
If you have Christ in you then you have Eternal life, which is Eternal Security, which is .. Once you are saved by Jesus, you are kept saved by Jesus.
Once saved.......you are ALWAYS saved.......= kept saved BY JESUS.
The proof is that you are born again, with Christ in you= as Proof of your Eternal Life and Eternal Security.
I apologize. Perhaps if the first sentence was not separated and should have been written along the address line, that is @GEN2REV, @amadeus, and @many others in these forums, agree that Eternal Security is not Biblical.
Hence, my argument should have started out with: "Since [not And] seeing that "the wages of sin [singular] is death." that is, it only takes one sin to send anyone to hell.
Your argument is that Eternal Security is not Biblical. Therefore, I asked if John 10:28 was Scripture and if it is, why then do you people not hear it? Is it because your hearing is dull???
If things are still not clear, please ask as English is my second language. It's no excuse but please ask anyways so we can have proper dialogue. Thank you.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
The easiest way I can answer your question is to tell you that Legitimate Biblical Doctrine is not based on one single, partial, verse. It's based on all of scripture as a whole. That's why we could sit here all day long trading verses that we claim support our opposing positions. But when you take the entire Bible into account, every story, every quote from God/Jesus and every teaching of the Apostles, etc., you establish a more bullet-proof doctrine that is fully supported by God's Word.
If Eternal Security were true, as I've already addressed in this thread, there would be no need for all the warnings about the devil, the instructions to put on the armor of God, all the continuous teaching against sin and falling away and the depictions of those who'll say 'Lord, Lord' and be sent to destruction, or the branches of the True Vine that are removed by the Father to wither and be burned for not remaining IN Christ and establishing fruit that is pleasing to the Lord.
None of those are referring to unbelieving Christians. None of them are addressing those who are fake Christians, or "false converts." By the context of the passages themselves, it is plainly seen that these are addressing Christians; those who believe, and have been saved, and are IN Christ.
So, there's my answer. I probably won't go round and round with you about it, but I'll let others chime in. These debates never come to any real end and my soul is growing weary lately. But those who have eyes to see and ears to hear will understand.
God bless.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
If you can't get along with Amadeus, then there probably is a pattern here.
Very simply our security lies in having the Holy Spirit in us and in following always the lead of the Holy Spirit. Paul warns us not to quench the Spirit because alone, that is on our own, we will fail and fall.
It is really simply a test or a trial, God's test or trial, [I would call it] for each of us: Follow our own fallible head [in my case, Amadeus] or follow the Head of the Body of Christ [Jesus]. Anyone having trouble following Him and continuing to sin, needs to continue to ask for help as per Matt. 7:7.
God does not fail.
"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible" Mark 10:27
"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19
When a person quenches the Spirit, he effectively stops God from helping him overcome. That is free will.
God certainly loves us... but how much do we love and trust in Him? What is impossible for Him? What will He not do for us? When we ask for His help will He ignore us if we believe Him?
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BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
That's quite a straw man you've erected there. All I need to know about eternal security is that it actually provides no assurance at all (I've got the scars to prove it) and that it is diametrically opposed to religious liberty, which insults the character of God, which is, in turn, what the Gospel is all about to begin with.
And away we go! (maybe)
Simply trust God my friend and give Him always the glory!That's quite a straw man you've erected there. All I need to know about eternal security is that it actually provides no assurance at all (I've got the scars to prove it) and that it is diametrically opposed to religious liberty, which insults the character of God, which is, in turn, what the Gospel is all about to begin with.
And away we go! (maybe)
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