Quote from Purity....So I guess in return considering "all your bluster" you cannot disprove that "angels can be given the power to create, or took active part in creation"
I do not have to 'disprove' anything. If you are going to introduce some thing into scripture that is not consistent with the plain reading of the word....that angels created and Jesus did not create....it is up to you to prove. And thus far you have failed miserably.
Hebrews 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Inboth the above instances the word for world is the same, meaning the universe/space rather than time.It can only refer to vreation at the very beginning. Creation in which Jesus, as the pre-existent Son of the Most High God created all things. To attempt to maintain that these "worlds" apply to the future does violence to the plain reading of the text in that instance, and to all the other corrobative texts which state in clear unequivocal language that Jesus made everything that has been made.
Elohim was there in Gen 1:1-3
Elohim excel in strength and do all that is commanded of them Psa 103:20
Elohim rejoice at the works of God in creation Job 38:7
Elohim is behind every single divine interaction between God and man
Elohim are the heavenly council to which God directs his affairs both in Heaven and Earth Ps 82:1
And what could be said of Moses and the many signs and wonders performed in Israel, all angels - the parting of the sea, the plagues etc all done through angels - the strengthening of Jesus Christ and his resurrection, all through angels.
And when Jesus ascended the throne of Yahweh what did the angels do...Rev 4:10 (If you cannot "see", then 2 Kings 6:17 must apply Brakelite.)
Actually, if you were acutely aware of Rev 4:10 you would see in this something rather precious which casts down Trinitarian dogma!
The highest ranking angels "cast their crowns before the throne" This was both an act of submission and of homage toward Christ, in which the four and twenty elders acknowledge that their victory stems from Christ, as his did from the Father. The angels relinquishing their authority which they previously held before Yahweh is testimony to their acknowledging that a Son of Man made lower (in nature) than the angels has now been elevated ()for the first time) above the angelic order.
In Rev. 3:21, Christ promises the faithful (and us) of Philadelphia that their adversaries will be compelled to "worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee." In doing so, they will acknowledge that the Redeemed are the manifestation of Christ, as Christ is the manifestation of the Father (1 Cor. 11:3). See Rev. 3:21.
Imagine if the 24 elders actually believe Jesus IS God...imagine the irony of even suggesting HE is worthy of anything.
"Saying, Thou art worthy, Ο Lord, to receive glory and honour and power"
The angels understood why Jesus was worthy and it was not on the basis of him being God!!!!
You can keep running from truth but eventually you will be made to see.
P.