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Question about John 12:40

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by ryangrom, Aug 12, 2007.

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  1. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    (tim bennett;16664)
    gone be lots and lots of folks burning in sheol?i did not go to church today=oops. i have now been around 6 times in one year=maybe 7=that is few to me.
    Attending church does not make us Christian even though thats the impression most pastors seems to be coveying to people. what makes us Christians? by trusting YHWH and Jesus and following(serving) Jesus daily.
     
  2. tim bennett

    tim bennett New Member

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    i wonder what really get s under the skin of the non-churchgoer. i have been to church, i am guessing now, probably 10 times in the last year and a half. the big issue with me was the tithe. i make $7.00 an hour and i know a loving god could not possible want me to give at least 10% of my check to further his good. after all he is god why does he need my money. i kinda believe that the tithe is for the tither and not god=i got a wierd way of looking at it now i guess. again=i have tithed 3 times in the last year and a half. but from here on out(i missed today)when i go to church i hope i am able to give at least 10%= i guess i am chasing another one of man's doctrines there. i like the sop of this sight, prescribe to the the king james version , and not the apocrypha or the book of mormon. man's doctrine does not scare me a bit=the word of jesus does=shalom!and i guess the biggest thing that kept me from church was the hypocracy of it all. gettin dressed up and smilling and being nice to people. i dress ok now and i smile if I feel like=kinda liberal i know. everybody in church is dirty just like me, everybody in church does not know jesus. but, better for me to be there than not=i truly believe. go ahead and flame away if you willX!
     
  3. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    Tim,Being christian means accepting Jesus' as Lord and Savior. that means serving Jesus daily. don't be so legalistic. Jesus hates legalism. Read the bible and find out how you can serve Jesus. To find out how we can serve Jesus is to read the NT.Love, hitomi
     
  4. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (verzanumi24;16608)
    There is no such thing in the Bible as an "eternal soul." Only God is eternal and Jesus said He will give us eternal life....if we already had it He would not have to offer it as His gift....what the wicked receive is death, not eternal life. When we speak, we should take care that what we say is Biblical and not because we/our church say it.Satan's torment is not the fire but seeing all that he has worked for goes up in smoke. The fire will burn for a very very long time but it will not last forever. Forever can also be translated "from age to age."Human language is limited, so the same word that is used to describe God's existence is the same word that is used for the duration for Hell....but it does not mean that Hell has always existed or that it will never end.
    What??????? is your point(quote) No such thing as an eternal soul?? (quote)Then how did God foreknow us??? (what of the first earth age)He will give us eternal life yes by changing us in the twinkling of an eye to our spirit bodies.. For flesh and blood can not enter Heaven where does it say this is a gift? This is our true state of being. (quote) what the wicked receive is death, not eternal life(quote)Wicked receive second death death of the soul.(quote) Satan's torment is not the fire but seeing all that he has worked for goes up in smoke.(quote) Although probably somewhat true this is not stated in scripture this is an assumptionAnd what does this mean or have to do with anything (quote) Human language is limited, so the same word that is used to describe God's existence is the same word that is used for the duration for Hell....but it does not mean that Hell has always existed or that it will never end(quote)What are you saying????????????????????????????????????????????
     
  5. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    (Joyful;16662)
    Well, v24, we have to agree to disagree on this one. Overall Scrpiture is saying to be faithful until the end and this is not easy one to do; most people are not willing to do it. There is no second chance unless one have never heard the good news.good day,hitomi
    Ok, so you have reject the scriptures that I posted....remember the Bible does not contradict it self. I would encourage you to do a personal Bible study on this topic, and when I say a Bible study I am talking about the entire Bible and not just the New Testament. The Old and New Testament complements each other. Without the two we will have partial understanding...take care
     
  6. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    (verzanumi24;16675)
    Ok, so you have reject the scriptures that I posted....remember the Bible does not contradict it self. I would encourage you to do a personal Bible study on this topic, and when I say a Bible study I am talking about the entire Bible and not just the New Testament. The Old and New Testament complements each other. Without the two we will have partial understanding...take care
    I have been doing my personal study. It seems that you are mixing up so many scriptures and so vague. the Bible is not so vague my friend. I read both NT and OT.love, hitomi
     
  7. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    (kriss;16671)
    What??????? is your point(quote) No such thing as an eternal soul?? (quote)Then how did God foreknow us??? (what of the first earth age)
    Because He eternally had decided to make us into the image of His son. If our soul was eternal then it would be God, as God is, which mean that God did not create it. As I stated before there is no such thing in the Bible as an immortal soul. If you think you can find immortal soul in the Bible then show it to me.(kriss;16671)
    He will give us eternal life yes by changing us in the twinkling of an eye to our spirit bodies..
    Here is another error...the Bible does not say we will have a spirit body. It says we will have a spiritual body.....spirits do not have a body. We will have a glorified spiritual body....this is an entirely different body then what we now have, because we will never get hungry, tired, feel pain or be bound by the limitations that we are now subjected to.(kriss;16671)
    (quote) what the wicked receive is death, not eternal life(quote)Wicked receive second death death of the soul.
    So therefore there cannot then be a never ending torment of the wicked if they suffer the second death.(quote) Satan's torment is not the fire but seeing all that he has worked for goes up in smoke.(quote) (kriss;16671)
    Although probably somewhat true this is not stated in scripture this is an assumptionAnd what does this mean or have to do with anything
    True, but we know that fire is a physical thing and Satan is a spirit being, and spirit beings cannot be hurt by physical things. (kriss;16671)
    (quote) Human language is limited, so the same word that is used to describe God's existence is the same word that is used for the duration for Hell....but it does not mean that Hell has always existed or that it will never end(quote)What are you saying????????????????????????????????????????????
    Just what I said, human languages developed through human experiences, and no one, except Jesus of course have ever lived as a spirit to know that reality. So even if Jesus were to reveal it, our limited minds would never understand it anyway. God uses our limited human languages to give us a little glimpse of the things of the spirit; but it is still limited knowledge.
     
  8. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    (Joyful;16678)
    I have been doing my personal study. It seems that you are mixing up so many scriptures and so vague. the Bible is not so vague my friend. I read both NT and OT.love, hitomi
    So then how would you explain the scriptures that I posted?
     
  9. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    (verzanumi24;16680)
    So then how would you explain the scriptures that I posted?
    You did not answer to my question. what do you say about Jesus telling us that the gate that leads to life is narrow and only a few find it? You are saying that most people will be saved: Jesus doesn't say that. please, dont be evasive.hitomi
     
  10. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    (Joyful;16684)
    You did not answer to my question. what do you say about Jesus telling us that the gate that leads to life is narrow and only a few find it? You are saying that most people will be saved: Jesus doesn't say that. please, dont be evasive.hitomi
    I already have, it's just that you are not paying attention, or you did not read one of my response to you, but I could repeat myself if you like.
     
  11. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    (verzanumi24;16686)
    I already have, it's just that you are not paying attention, or you did not read one of my response to you, but I could repeat myself if you like.
    I did not see any clear post to the question. Please make it very clear.this is very smple question and should not be so complicated to answer. thank you.
     
  12. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    BTW, v24.If you dont agree with me please dont claim i am not studying the Bible. It is not so kind or fair to state one is not studying just because she does not agree with you.we could say to agree to disagree and that should suffice.thank you.
     
  13. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    (Joyful;16687)
    I did not see any clear post to the question. Please make it very clear.this is very smple question and should not be so complicated to answer. thank you.
    Your questionQuote:Originally Posted by Joyful Then why does Jesus say narrow is the gate that leads to life and only a few find it? My answerWell since God is only calling a few now, then it's not a wonder why only the few who find it. Those who are being called now, are called for a special purpose....which is to rule with Jesus on the earth over the nations, which means assisting Jesus in saving the nations.Saints will be given power over the nationsRevelation 2:26 (KJV) 26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: Here are a few sacripture showing that God will saved all nations after Jesus return.Psalms 86:9 (KJV) 9 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name. Isaiah 66:23 (KJV) 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. Isaiah 2:4 (KJV) 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. Micah 4:3 (KJV) 3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. Malachi 1:11 (KJV) 11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts. Zechariah 14:16-21 (KJV) 16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts. Isaiah 19:21 (KJV) 21 And the LORD shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the LORD in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the LORD, and perform it. Isaiah 19:22 (KJV) 22 And the LORD shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the LORD, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them. Isaiah 19:24-25 (KJV) 24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land: 25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritanceNone of the above scriptures have ever happened, nor is it happening now, these are prophecies that will take place after Jesus returns. If you still do not understand then there is nothing I can do to make you understand; that is up to God to alow you to see it.
     
  14. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    (Joyful;16688)
    BTW, v24.If you dont agree with me please dont claim i am not studying the Bible. It is not so kind or fair to state one is not studying just because she does not agree with you.we could say to agree to disagree and that should suffice.thank you.
    Sorry I did not intend to offend you, the scriptures that I quoted is very clear to me, and I see no contradiction in what Jesus said, so I assume that if one is a Christian and is studding the Bible, it will be clear to him/her too.
     
  15. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    V24,I dont know what to say except Jesus never said this in the NT and I believe you are misinterpreting those verses.all I read from NT of Jesus warnings and teachings are to be faithful until end and try to imitate Him with all our heart, soul, strength and mind. I know that is for YHWH but this goes for Jesus too. Jesus is not talking to only a few of His followers. His teachings and warnings are for all His followers.hitomi
     
  16. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    (verzanumi24;16690)
    Sorry I did not intend to offend you, the scriptures that I quoted is very clear to me, and I see no contradiction in what Jesus said, so I assume that if one is a Christian and is studding the Bible, it will be clear to him/her too.
    I can say the same thing abck to you too:It is very clear to me that Jesus is warnings and teachings to all His people and not only to a few people.
     
  17. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    (Joyful;16691)
    V24,I dont know what to say except Jesus never said this in the NT and I believe you are misinterpreting those verses.all I read from NT of Jesus warnings and teachings are to be faithful until end and try to imitate Him with all our heart, soul, strength and mind. I know that is for YHWH but this goes for Jesus too. Jesus is not talking to only a few of His followers. His teachings and warnings are for all His followers.hitomi
    Well then if I am misinterpreting these scriptures, as I asked before what are those scriptures saying then?
     
  18. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    (Joyful;16692)
    I can say the same thing abck to you too:It is very clear to me that Jesus is warnings and teachings to all His people and not only to a few people.
    I would still love for you to explain the meaning of all the scriptures I quoted.
     
  19. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    (verzanumi24;16694)
    I would still love for you to explain the meaning of all the scriptures I quoted.
    which ones? you listed so many. it is time consuming. I will explain if you just give me a few.You are mixing salvation issue with prophesy. that's the problem with your interpretation.Love, hitomi
     
  20. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    (Joyful;16697)
    which ones? you listed so many. it is time consuming. I will explain if you just give me a few.You are mixing salvation issue with prophesy. that's the problem with your interpretation.Love, hitomi
    As I said, all...your not trying to evade my question are you?
     
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