Question about John 12:40

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Joyful

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As I said, all...your not trying to evade my question are you?
Not at all. I will prove it to you. just take a pick. anything you throw at me I will explain.
 

verzanumi24

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Not at all. I will prove it to you. just take a pick. anything you throw at me I will explain.
Tell you what, I'm not going to wate your time and mine any more, forget it, beceause if you could you would have done it already.
 

Joyful

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Tell you what, I'm not going to wate your time and mine any more, forget it, beceause if you could you would have done it already.
All you did is just list up a bunch of verses; even satan argued against Jesus quoting Scpriture. Like I said, I can explain and you wont let me because you dont want me to prove it to you?All verses needs interpretations.
 

verzanumi24

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All you did is just list up a bunch of verses; even satan argued against Jesus quoting Scpriture. Like I said, I can explain and you wont let me because you dont want me to prove it to you?All verses needs interpretations.
Then why are you taking so long? You can respond to all or anyone you chose. Please I wish not to continue this discussion if you chose to argue/stall rather then address my question.
 

Joyful

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Then why are you taking so long? You can respond to all or anyone you chose. Please I wish not to continue this discussion if you chose to argue/stall rather then address my question.
Ok, I will explain all of them but I will do it one at a time.I am tired for the day. I will start tomorrow.are you happy?love, hitomi
 

Joyful

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Revelation 2:26 (KJV) 26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: Here are a few sacripture showing that God will saved all nations after Jesus return.
This has nothing to do with everone's salvation. Only people who overcome will have salvation. You are interpreting that they will be the rulers of disobedience. disobedience will perish like Jesus is saying. "for God so love the world that He gave His Son who ever believe in Him shall not perish but have eternal life." Non-believers will perish!!! You are changing around Jesus' word.
 

verzanumi24

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This has nothing to do with everone's salvation. Only people who overcome will have salvation. You are interpreting that they will be the rulers of disobedience. disobedience will perish like Jesus is saying. "for God so love the world that He gave His Son who ever believe in Him shall not perish but have eternal life." Non-believers will perish!!! You are changing around Jesus' word.
You are in error here...it did not say that these nations will perish, that is putting into this verse that is not there. It simply say that those who over come will have power over the nations. This verse is simply saying the saints will be given authority/rulership/power over the nations. Having power over the nations means the saints will rule over the nations. You see Jesus is not returning only to glorify the saints, then take us back to heaven. Jesus is coming to this world to say.Revelation 5:10 (KJV) 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Revelation 20:4 (KJV) 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 1 Corinthians 6:2 (KJV) 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Zechariah 14:4 (KJV) 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. People will come and worship before the feet of the saintsRevelation 3:9 (KJV) 9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. It makes no sense for Jesus to crown the saints kings and priest, if they have no one to rule over. And since the saints will be rulling over nations, it means that these people are being saved.Because Jesus will set up His kingdom on the earth in Jerusalem, people will go up for instruction and how to serve God. The mountain of the Lord's house is referring to the saints.Isaiah 2:1-4 (KJV) 1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
 

Joyful

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You are in error here...it did not say that these nations will perish, that is putting into this verse that is not there. It simply say that those who over come will have power over the nations. This verse is simply saying the saints will be given authority/rulership/power over the nations. Having power over the nations means the saints will rule over the nations. You see Jesus is not returning only to glorify the saints, then take us back to heaven. Jesus is coming to this world to say.
Here you go again, more verses that have nothing to do with salvation. Those are just prophesies.You expressed yours and I expressed mine. I will go to next verse. Please don't dwell on the same kind of verses. We don't have to go in a circle, do we?
 

Joyful

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Psalms 86:9 (KJV) 9 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.
YHWH and Jesus believers and all over the world. Of course they will worship YHWH.
 

verzanumi24

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Here you go again, more verses that have nothing to do with salvation. Those are just prophesies.You expressed yours and I expressed mine. I will go to next verse. Please don't dwell on the same kind of verses. We don't have to go in a circle, do we?
You still have not disproven that it is not...it is you saying it is not. You refuse to believe the scriptures that I posted because it does not fit with your assumption of what Jesus meant.The belief that because these are prophecies it is therefore does not prove that Nations will not be offered salvation, is contradicting what these scriptures are saying. Before Jesus came as a man, His birth was prophesied in the Old Testament, so someone in the time of the Old Testament could say the same thing that you are saying.What do you believe prophases are? They are revelations of things to come. So when it says "all nations shall came and worship before your feet"; that is an act of worship, which means that they have as a whole have been saved, and are doing what people who are saved will do...which is acknowledging God and those whom He has set up to rule over them. I don't expect you to understand these things, because I would imagine it does not go along with what your denomination teaches…you will believe whatever they teach.
 

verzanumi24

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YHWH and Jesus believers and all over the world. Of course they will worship YHWH.
It says all Nations, it does not say some individuals in those Nations.
 

Joyful

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It says all Nations, it does not say some individuals in those Nations.
You expressed your interpretation, I am expressing mine. Press on!
 

Joyful

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You still have not disproven that it is not...it is you saying it is not. You refuse to believe the scriptures that I posted because it does not fit with your assumption of what Jesus meant.
I am refuting what you said; You said most people will be saved at the end. that's not what Jesus is saying. Jesus says "Narrow is the gate that leads to life and only a few find it."This is what I am refuting here. All you are doing is quoting your own addition of salvation with prophesy. So stay on the topic please. We are discussing salvation since that's what you said against what Jesus says.
 

Joyful

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Isaiah 66:23 (KJV) 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
All God and Jesus followers. Non-believers are not included. Your interpretation is out of the context with what Jesus is saying.
 

Joyful

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Isaiah 2:4 (KJV) 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
When all judging is done, God's reign will come with perfect peace. Nothing about most people will be saved. You should know that Bible does not contradict itself. You are trying to prove NT lied.:eek:
 

Joyful

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Micah 4:3 (KJV) 3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Same as the above.
 

Joyful

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As I said, all...your not trying to evade my question are you?
Don't change the subject please. Remember what you have said.
 

verzanumi24

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You expressed your interpretation, I am expressing mine. Press on!
What's to interpret? I believe when it says all it means all. If it says all, then how can it mean some? When the Bible say Jonah was swolled by a great fish, should I say it means something else? Should I put my own spin on God's word to what I want it to mean? We don't need to have our own personal interpretions, of the scriptures because the Bible interpret itself. 2 Peter 1:20 (KJV) 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. We are not to have our own interpretationsinterpretation:Greek Word: ἐπίλυσιςTransliteration: epilysisPhonetic Pronunciation:ep-il'-oo-sisRoot: from Cross Reference: TDNT - 4:337,543Part of Speech: n fVine's Words: Interpret, Interpretation, Interpreter from (epiluo); explanation, i.e. application :- interpretation. This is how the Bible interpret itself.Isaiah 28:10 (KJV) 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
 

verzanumi24

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I am refuting what you said; You said most people will be saved at the end. that's not what Jesus is saying. Jesus says "Narrow is the gate that leads to life and only a few find it."This is what I am refuting here. All you are doing is quoting your own addition of salvation with prophesy. So stay on the topic please. We are discussing salvation since that's what you said against what Jesus says.
The scriptures show that most people will be saved, yes. But I never said this will happen before the return of Jesus. The vast majority of mankind will be saved after Jesus returns and establish His kingdom on the earth. This is what those scriptures that I post are showing. When Jesus said narrow is the way and few find it, He was referring to our time/age. But in the age to come the rest of mankind will be saved. Are you aware that there are three resurrections mention in the Bible?
 

verzanumi24

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When all judging is done, God's reign will come with perfect peace. Nothing about most people will be saved. You should know that Bible does not contradict itself. You are trying to prove NT lied.:eek:
If you notice it says Nations shall not lift up sword against Nations....individual Christians living in the country of there birth does not constitute a Nation or Nations. But as I said this will take place after Jesus second coming. When Jesus and the saints are ruling, the earth will rest from war. Nations will finally learn to live in peace.
 
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