Question about John 12:40

[Christina]

(verzanumi24;16679)
Because He eternally had decided to make us into the image of His son. If our soul was eternal then it would be God, as God is, which mean that God did not create it. As I stated before there is no such thing in the Bible as an immortal soul. If you think you can find immortal soul in the Bible then show it to me.Here is another error...the Bible does not say we will have a spirit body. It says we will have a spiritual body.....spirits do not have a body. We will have a glorified spiritual body....this is an entirely different body then what we now have, because we will never get hungry, tired, feel pain or be bound by the limitations that we are now subjected to.So therefore there cannot then be a never ending torment of the wicked if they suffer the second death.(quote) Satan's torment is not the fire but seeing all that he has worked for goes up in smoke.(quote) True, but we know that fire is a physical thing and Satan is a spirit being, and spirit beings cannot be hurt by physical things. Just what I said, human languages developed through human experiences, and no one, except Jesus of course have ever lived as a spirit to know that reality. So even if Jesus were to reveal it, our limited minds would never understand it anyway. God uses our limited human languages to give us a little glimpse of the things of the spirit; but it is still limited knowledge.
1.Fisrt of all I never used the word Imortal soul you did if yoiu can prove God did foreknow us or there was no first age or we did not exist as spirit then you do so. If you can explain Gods plan without us having a soul then do so. 2.Again prove that we are not in spirit bodies by saying spirtual rather than spirit is simply a matter of how you understand God plan and his promise again you use your interpetation as fact rather than the assumption it is. you give description of no pain ect. which is contray to physical body and then say this is spiritual rather than spirit prove it.3. No where does it tell us what kind of fire we are talking here it may not be an earthly fire you again are making assumptions. God is a consuming fire.4 Again prove it. You dont know man has never lived as spirit this is again your assumption not Gods Word. We are told its appointed once we die. Thats it.So again you mix scripture,with your opinion and state it as fact.

 

[verzanumi24]

(kriss;16780)
1.Fisrt of all I never used the word Imortal soul you did if yoiu can prove God did foreknow us or there was no first age or we did not exist as spirit then you do so. If you can explain Gods plan without us having a soul then do so. 2.Again prove that we are not in spirit bodies by saying spirtual rather than spirit is simply a matter of how you understand God plan and his promise again you use your interpetation as fact rather than the assumption it is. you give description of no pain ect. which is contray to physical body and then say this is spiritual rather than spirit prove it.3. No where does it tell us what kind of fire we are talking here it may not be an earthly fire you again are making assumptions. God is a consuming fire.4 Again prove it. You dont know man has never lived as spirit this is again your assumption not Gods Word. We are told its appointed once we die. Thats it.So again you mix scripture,with your opinion and state it as fact.
I did not use the word immortal, I use the word Eternal. Let me back track a little.Quote:Originally Posted by verzanumi24 There is no such thing in the Bible as an "eternal soul." Only God is eternal and Jesus said He will give us eternal life....if we already had it He would not have to offer it as His gift....what the wicked receive is death, not eternal life. When we speak, we should take care that what we say is Biblical and not because we/our church say it.Satan's torment is not the fire but seeing all that he has worked for goes up in smoke. The fire will burn for a very very long time but it will not last forever. Forever can also be translated "from age to age."Human language is limited, so the same word that is used to describe God's existence is the same word that is used for the duration for Hell....but it does not mean that Hell has always existed or that it will never end. QUOTE=krissWhat??????? is your point(quote) No such thing as an eternal soul?? (quote)Then how did God foreknow us??? (what of the first earth age)He will give us eternal life yes by changing us in the twinkling of an eye to our spirit bodies..For flesh and blood can not enter Heaven where does it say this is a gift? This is our true state of being. (quote) what the wicked receive is death, not eternal life(quote)Wicked receive second death death of the soul.(quote) Satan's torment is not the fire but seeing all that he has worked for goes up in smoke.(quote) Although probably somewhat true this is not stated in scripture this is an assumptionAnd what does this mean or have to do with anything(quote) Human language is limited, so the same word that is used to describe God's existence is the same word that is used for the duration for Hell....but it does not mean that Hell has always existed or that it will never end(quote)What are you saying????????????????????????????????????????????__________________Community Guide

 

[Christina]

So basically you have no answer except to nit pic over a the word the imortal, eternal when know perfectly well what I was saying I have run across this before people who have no answers or think they are experts make excuses by nit picking the ridicoulous little errs of words or spelling. . This is a Bible site not an english class. So lets not play word games

 

[verzanumi24]

(kriss;16785)
So basically you have no answer except to nit pic over a the word the imortal, eternal when know perfectly well what I was saying I have run across this before people who have no answers or think they are experts make excuses by nit picking the ridicoulous little errs of words or spelling. . This is a Bible site not an english class. So lets not play word games
You call it nit pic I call it being scripturally accurate...immortal and eternal are two different words and mean two different things.

 

[Christina]

This is ridicoulous it has nothing to do with the word its the meaning of what the subject was we were discussing you are behaving like a child and Im not going to play games with you heres the post in question answer it or dont but stop Games talking in circles changing the subject Originally Posted by verzanumi24 Because He eternally had decided to make us into the image of His son. If our soul was eternal then it would be God, as God is, which mean that God did not create it. As I stated before there is no such thing in the Bible as an immortal soul. If you think you can find immortal soul in the Bible then show it to me.Here is another error...the Bible does not say we will have a spirit body. It says we will have a spiritual body.....spirits do not have a body. We will have a glorified spiritual body....this is an entirely different body then what we now have, because we will never get hungry, tired, feel pain or be bound by the limitations that we are now subjected to.So therefore there cannot then be a never ending torment of the wicked if they suffer the second death.(quote) Satan's torment is not the fire but seeing all that he has worked for goes up in smoke.(quote) True, but we know that fire is a physical thing and Satan is a spirit being, and spirit beings cannot be hurt by physical things.Just what I said, human languages developed through human experiences, and no one, except Jesus of course have ever lived as a spirit to know that reality. So even if Jesus were to reveal it, our limited minds would never understand it anyway. God uses our limited human languages to give us a little glimpse of the things of the spirit; but it is still limited knowledge. 1.Fisrt of all I never used the word Imortal soul you did if yoiu can prove God did foreknow us or there was no first age or we did not exist as spirit then you do so. If you can explain Gods plan without us having a soul then do so. 2.Again prove that we are not in spirit bodies by saying spirtual rather than spirit is simply a matter of how you understand God plan and his promise again you use your interpetation as fact rather than the assumption it is. you give description of no pain ect. which is contray to physical body and then say this is spiritual rather than spirit prove it.3. No where does it tell us what kind of fire we are talking here it may not be an earthly fire you again are making assumptions. God is a consuming fire.4 Again prove it. You dont know man has never lived as spirit this is again your assumption not Gods Word. We are told its appointed once we die. Thats it.So again you mix scripture,with your opinion and state it as fact.__________________

 

[Joyful]

(verzanumi24;16776)
The vast majority of mankind will be saved after Jesus returns and establish His kingdom on the earth. This is what those scriptures that I post are showing.
The NT is not saying this. Show me in the NT. Your interpretation is out of context with NT and Jesus. You sound like universalist.
When Jesus said narrow is the way and few find it, He was referring to our time/age. But in the age to come the rest of mankind will be saved. Are you aware that there are three resurrections mention in the Bible?
You are adding more than what Jesus said.:naughty:

 

[verzanumi24]

(Joyful;16788)
The NT is not saying this. Show me in the NT. Your interpretation is out of context with NT and Jesus. You sound like universalist.You are adding more than what Jesus said.:naughty:
If one is going to study the Bible you cannot leave the Old Testament out.2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: When the above was said, there was no New Testament Bible; the writer was referring to the Old Testament. The early New Testament Church had only the Old Testament to guide them and instruct them. If you leave the Old Testament out of your Bible study you will have incomplete understanding, (this is the reason why you cannot understand what I am saying) because there are things that is mentioned in the Old Testament that is not in the New, and there are things in the New that is not mentioned in the Old. The Bible must be read/studied as a complete whole and not in isolation, one book from the other, the Old from the New.

 

[verzanumi24]

(kriss;16787)
This is ridicoulous it has nothing to do with the word its the meaning of what the subject was we were discussing you are behaving like a child and Im not going to play games with you heres the post in question answer it or dont but stop Games talking in circles changing the subject Originally Posted by verzanumi24 Because He eternally had decided to make us into the image of His son. If our soul was eternal then it would be God, as God is, which mean that God did not create it. As I stated before there is no such thing in the Bible as an immortal soul. If you think you can find immortal soul in the Bible then show it to me.Here is another error...the Bible does not say we will have a spirit body. It says we will have a spiritual body.....spirits do not have a body. We will have a glorified spiritual body....this is an entirely different body then what we now have, because we will never get hungry, tired, feel pain or be bound by the limitations that we are now subjected to.So therefore there cannot then be a never ending torment of the wicked if they suffer the second death.(quote) Satan's torment is not the fire but seeing all that he has worked for goes up in smoke.(quote) True, but we know that fire is a physical thing and Satan is a spirit being, and spirit beings cannot be hurt by physical things.Just what I said, human languages developed through human experiences, and no one, except Jesus of course have ever lived as a spirit to know that reality. So even if Jesus were to reveal it, our limited minds would never understand it anyway. God uses our limited human languages to give us a little glimpse of the things of the spirit; but it is still limited knowledge. 1.Fisrt of all I never used the word Imortal soul you did if yoiu can prove God did foreknow us or there was no first age or we did not exist as spirit then you do so. If you can explain Gods plan without us having a soul then do so. 2.Again prove that we are not in spirit bodies by saying spirtual rather than spirit is simply a matter of how you understand God plan and his promise again you use your interpetation as fact rather than the assumption it is. you give description of no pain ect. which is contray to physical body and then say this is spiritual rather than spirit prove it.3. No where does it tell us what kind of fire we are talking here it may not be an earthly fire you again are making assumptions. God is a consuming fire.4 Again prove it. You dont know man has never lived as spirit this is again your assumption not Gods Word. We are told its appointed once we die. Thats it.So again you mix scripture,with your opinion and state it as fact.__________________
The fact still remain that there is no such thing in the Bible as human beings having an immortal soul or an eternal soul. This is and has been my point from the beginning.

 

[Jordan]

I doubt that you knew that we existed in the first earth age, our soul existed, not our flesh bodies.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.

 

[verzanumi24]

(thesuperjag;16791)
I doubt that you knew that we existed in the first earth age, our soul existed, not our flesh bodies.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
That's you saying it...no such things is mentioned in the Bible, Old or New Testament.

 

[Jordan]

Then I take the fact that you believe there is no Time Gap for scriptures between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, no?Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.

 

[verzanumi24]

(thesuperjag;16793)
Then I take the fact that you believe there is no Time Gap for scriptures between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, no?Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
Well yes there is...but when God first created the earth it was given to Lucifer and his angels. Man was made much much later, after Lucifer and his angels sinned.

 

[Jordan]

(verzanumi24)
(thesuperjag)
Then I take the fact that you believe there is no Time Gap for scriptures between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, no?Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
Well yes there is...but when God first created the earth it was given to Lucifer and his angels. Man was made much much later, after Lucifer and his angels sinned.YHWH did NOT give Lucifer the Earth. Lucifer was just the highest archangel alive, He was suppose to protect God's throne, but instead he want to sit God's throne. And I suppose you think YHWH created more souls after Lucifer sinned? no?Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.

 

[verzanumi24]

(thesuperjag;16795)
YHWH did NOT give Lucifer the Earth. Lucifer was just the highest archangel alive, He was suppose to protect God's throne, but instead he want to sit God's throne. And I suppose you think YHWH created more souls after Lucifer sinned? no?Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
Lucifer as he was called then asend into heaven to remove God from His throneIsaiah 14:12-14 (KJV) 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Satan’s seat/throne is on the earthRevelation 2:13 (KJV) 13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. The rebellious angels left the earth, there first estate when the ascended into heavenJude 1:6 (KJV) 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. The world to come will not be in subject to angelsHebrews 2:5-6 (KJV) 5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?

 

[Jordan]

You are clearly twisting scriptures as you are making my soul weary. (sp?) Not only that you also avoided my question which I will say again. And I suppose you think YHWH created more souls after Lucifer sinned? no?Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.

 

[verzanumi24]

(thesuperjag;16799)
You are clearly twisting scriptures as you are making my soul weary. (sp?) Not only that you also avoided my question which I will say again. And I suppose you think YHWH created more souls after Lucifer sinned? no?Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
And how are those scriptures being twisted? Do they not say what they say? They are not my words.

 

[Jordan]

(verzanumi24)
(thesuperjag)
You are clearly twisting scriptures as you are making my soul weary. (sp?) Not only that you also avoided my question which I will say again. And I suppose you think YHWH created more souls after Lucifer sinned? no?Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
And how are those scriptures being twisted? Do they not say what they say? They are not my words.If you want to put it that way, Yes Lucifer is god of this world (II Corinthians 4:4) I hope you can clearly see that the angels in those verses are only referring to fallen angels. Not ALL angels.And another note, In Isaiah 14:13-14, God said to Lucifer, For thou hast said in thine heart That's right, He was prideful, yet his wish won't come true at all.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.

 

[verzanumi24]

(thesuperjag;16801)
If you want to put it that way, Yes Lucifer is god of this world (II Corinthians 4:4) I hope you can clearly see that the angels in those verses are only referring to fallen angels. Not ALL angels.
There is no reason why I would believe it was referring to the other angels...weren’t we talking about Satan and his angels?(thesuperjag;16801)
And another note, In Isaiah 14:13-14, God said to Lucifer, For thou hast said in thine heart That's right, He was prideful, yet his wish won't come true at all.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
Yes that's true, but we weren’t talking about what cause him to fall, or if his desires will be realized. We were at lest I was saying that the earth was first given to Lucifer, whose name has been changed to Satan.

 

[Jordan]

It clearly obvious that Lucifer's name is changed to Satan because of his rebellious against his own Father...in the first earth age. Again, I repeat in the first earth age.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.P.S. How old is Earth to you?

 

[verzanumi24]

(thesuperjag;16804)
P.S. How old is Earth to you?
I don't know how old the earth is (I leave that to the scientist) but I know that it's more than 6,000 years old.