Question for non-JW's

[Eternally Grateful]

Who said? Not ALL Christians are chosen for a role in heaven.....only those with the “heavenly calling”. (Heb 3:1)
God has many children, some in heaven and some on earth. We are all sinners and death will continue to take us until the coming of the Kingdom......how does the kingdom “come”? Can you tell me?

the jews are elect.. yet enemies of the gospel (romans 11)

the non saved jews will not go to heaven.

if your not elect to eternal life.. You will not see heaven,,

 

[Ritajanice]

Explanations that are thorough are detailed because there is no way to explain complicated things in 1 paragraph or less. Those who only want a few words are obviously satisfied with snatches of knowledge that are inadequate in helping them to explain things to others. I am a Bible student and teacher…everything I do is thorough because I have to satisfy myself first, that what I believe is backed up by God’s word 100%. An incomplete picture serves no purpose at all.

I have given you plenty of detailed scripture...in your own words, you don’t know what Born Again means.

The scriptures were written BY and FOR, God’s elect…they pertain first and foremost to the ones God has chosen to be “joint heirs with Christ”…..to be anointed with God’s spirit is to have a token from God proving their election. These ones do not just believe that they have “the heavenly calling…they know they do.

You must be Born Again...those are the elect of God..again I explained and gave you scripture.

Since the elect have a specific role in heaven that involves those who will live on earth, you should know that not all Christians can be of the elect…..they are a finite group and their role in heaven is clearly stated. This role involves those who will live in paradise on earth, where God placed us in the beginning….do you think God created the earth as a training ground for heaven?….he didn’t.

An “heir” is someone who inherits something….so what is the inheritance? What is your inheritance?
Your knowledge, for someone who is supposed to be filled with the holy spirit is almost non-existent….I see you quote theology but with no real Bible knowledge…..sad really.
If you are going to heaven, as one of God’s “saints”…..what will you do there? Surely you must know….?


I believe what the Bible teaches and it says that there are other Christians who are not of the elect. I showed you scripture confirming this, but you ignored it.

God drew me decades ago and gratefully, I have been serving our King in the capacity he instructed for most of my life. I have no desire for heaven because God designed us humans to live right here on the earth that he carefully and thoughtfully and lovingly prepared for us. Heaven has the full number of its elect, ready and willing to take up the role for which they were chosen…..one you seem to know nothing about…
The truth is the truth, regardless of what any of us “believes”.
Revelation 21:2-4 will have its fulfillment….we can count on it.

Explanations that are thorough are detailed because there is no way to explain complicated things in 1 paragraph or less. Those who only want a few words are obviously satisfied with snatches of knowledge that are inadequate in helping them to explain things to others. I am a Bible student and teacher…everything I do is thorough because I have to satisfy myself first, that what I believe is backed up by God’s word 100%. An incomplete picture serves no purpose at all.


The scriptures were written BY and FOR, God’s elect…they pertain first and foremost to the ones God has chosen to be “joint heirs with Christ”…..to be anointed with God’s spirit is to have a token from God proving their election. These ones do not just believe that they have “the heavenly calling…they know they do.

Since the elect have a specific role in heaven that involves those who will live on earth, you should know that not all Christians can be of the elect…..they are a finite group and their role in heaven is clearly stated. This role involves those who will live in paradise on earth, where God placed us in the beginning….do you think God created the earth as a training ground for heaven?….he didn’t.

An “heir” is someone who inherits something….so what is the inheritance? What is your inheritance?
Your knowledge, for someone who is supposed to be filled with the holy spirit is almost non-existent….I see you quote theology but with no real Bible knowledge…..sad really.
If you are going to heaven, as one of God’s “saints”…..what will you do there? Surely you must know….?


I believe what the Bible teaches and it says that there are other Christians who are not of the elect. I showed you scripture confirming this, but you ignored it.

God drew me decades ago and gratefully, I have been serving our King in the capacity he instructed for most of my life. I have no desire for heaven because God designed us humans to live right here on the earth that he carefully and thoughtfully and lovingly prepared for us. Heaven has the full number of its elect, ready and willing to take up the role for which they were chosen…..one you seem to know nothing about…
The truth is the truth, regardless of what any of us “believes”.
Revelation 21:2-4 will have its fulfillment….we can count on it.

I have given you answers to all of your questions....whereas you have answered none of mine.....

For that reason I won’t answer anymore of your confused questions..that are of the flesh and not the Spirit.

Not only does God draw us..he also Births us in the Spirit..those who aren’t Born Again will not see the Kingdom of God....they are still in darkness/ sin and alienated from God...

They are carnal and in the flesh...they lead themselves through God’s word.

 

[Ritajanice]

the jews are elect.. yet enemies of the gospel (romans 11)

the non saved jews will not go to heaven.

if your not elect to eternal life.. You will not see heaven,,

Brother, she doesn’t know what a Born Again is...she’s been leading herself through the Bible, she doesn’t even know what Born Again means...therefore she is still in darkness/ sin and alienated from God.

She doesn’t answer any of my questions in the Spirit, she answers from her own mind....surely you have discerned that.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Brother, she doesn’t know what a Born Again is...she’s been leading herself through the Bible, she doesn’t even know what Born Again means...therefore she is still in darkness/ sin and alienated from God.

She doesn’t answer any of my questions in the Spirit, she answers from her own mind....surely you have discerned that.

sadly,, like EPI and many others.

they can not grasp what Jesus meant when he said we must be born again

 

[Ritajanice]

sadly,, like EPI and many others.

they can not grasp what Jesus meant when he said we must be born again

I know.....they are in complete and utter darkness..still in chains....praying for them, in Jesus Name ,Amen!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I know.....they are in complete and utter darkness..still in chains....praying for them, in Jesus Name ,Amen!

sadly, thats all we can do. and plant the seed.

 

[Cassandra]

exactly,

its not an eternal dying, it is an eternal separation from God.

It is death. We are not immortal--we do not live forever. Immortality is a gift for whosoever believeth . John 3:16
I Tim6:15-16 God alone hath immortality.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It is death. We are not immortal--we do not live forever. Immortality is a gift for whosoever believeth . John 3:16
I Tim6:15-16 God alone hath immortality.

it is not death when the bible says they will suffer forever.

Revelation 20:10
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

They will not cease to exist..

 

[Aunty Jane]

None of this makes sense....why , because of your own admission, you have not been birthed in the Spirit.....

Who says I don’t have God’s spirit….servants of God in ancient times were guided by God’s spirit but not anointed by it for life in heaven. The Jews never expected to go to heaven….that was something involved with the sacred mystery that was explained by Jesus and his apostles. Once the disciples were anointed with God’s spirit, they knew what their destiny was and they knew what role they would play…..to date I have not seen you mention anything about why anyone goes to heaven let alone what they will do there.

I am not anointed with God’s spirit as one of his elect, because I have not been chosen for the role that they will play. They have an entirely different resurrection and an entirely different body in order to live in heaven with Jesus…..those who come back in the general resurrection that takes place after the elect have inherited their place in God’s kingdom, will come forth from their graves just like Lazarus did (John 11:11-14)….they have been “sleeping” peacefully, not conscious of the passage of time. No matter how long they have “slept”, their resurrection will seem as if they just closed their eyes but a moment ago. There is no immortal, soul that departs from the body at death, so there is no soul to go anywhere.

You have not answered any of my questions....why , because you aren’t Born Again...in utter darkness and complete ignorance of what it means.

Oh dear…..for someone who has not answered any of my questions, that is rather comical.
Read back over my posts and then tell me how you have answered my questions.

Why have you been chosen to go to heaven, and what will you do there? What role do the elect have as opposed to those who lived and died before the Father began to choose those who would rule with his son?
If you are already in God’s kingdom, then please tell me what God’s kingdom is, and what is the “good news” that we are supposed to preach to people about? (Matt 24:14)

 

[Wrangler]

Again, if you are chosen by God…..what is the purpose of being a “joint heir with Christ”?

Great and concise question!

An even better question in this thread is how come none of the non-JW’s even attempted to answer the questions in the OP?

 

[Aunty Jane]

the jews are elect.. yet enemies of the gospel (romans 11)

Can we have some specific verses please….? There are a lot of discussion-worthy points in Romans 11.

Where does it say that the Jews are elect? They could have been, but true to form, they could not do as they were told….even for any extended period of time. Disobedience and punishment plagued the nation until God brought forth his Messiah….when they rejected him, and orchestrated his death, God “abandoned” them, (Matt 23:37-39) choosing a new “Israel”….made up of both Jewish and Gentile Christians. (Gal 6:16)
It was prophesied that only a remnant of the Jews would be saved….and that is the remnant who accepted Jesus as the Christ. (Rom 9:27)

the non saved jews will not go to heaven.

Where will I find that written? No one who is not saved will inherit life. Even those who claim to be Christians will suffer rejection if they, like Israel, disobey the son, failing to “do the will of the Father”. (Matt7:21-23)

if your not elect to eternal life.. You will not see heaven

That is actually true……only the elect will see heaven, but not all Christians are going to heaven….that is because of WHY the elect are “chosen”……for a role that seems to escape you. You are “in the dark“ apparently….what is the purpose of going to heaven for those who are chosen by God to do so?

Since my questions have so far been ignored, I assume that the answer is “I dunno”.….so I will tell you what it means to be “born again” according to the scriptures, not according to Christendom’s flawed theology……it means to experience a rebirth in a new body to live in a different realm…..to be “born again” is a process that begins with an anointing with holy spirit, a token whilst still in the flesh, of the life to come for this exclusive group.

Ephesians 1:13-14….
“But you also hoped in him after you heard the word of truth, the good news about your salvation. After you believed, you were sealed by means of him with the promised holy spirit, 14 which is a token in advance of our inheritance, for the purpose of releasing God’s own possession by a ransom, to his glorious praise.”

Being born again or experiencing a rebirth, comes at their resurrection….they are given a spirit body in order to be able to live in the spirit realm with Jesus and his Father.

1 Cor 15: 22-23….
“For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each one in his own proper order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence.”

There is an order to the resurrection……Christ was the “first fruits” of those raised to life in the spirit…then there are the elect (those who belong to Christ, during his presence.) There is a “first resurrection” for the elect, who will assume the role of “kings and priests” with Jesus in his role as God’s appointed king. These alone put on immortality.

Do you know what Christ’s “presence” is? When does he become “present”?

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Re:OP
1.My questions are:
What kind of witness do you suppose this is to outsiders who observe such vicious infighting?
2. Do you suppose Jesus would judge such relentless attacks as loving, as action becoming of his worthy disciples?
3.Is this why Jesus suffered and died on the cross; so there can be eternal acrimony over doctrine?

Hmmm, in studying these questions, I see Jesus himself doing the fighting against the false doctrine of the Pharisees throughout his ministry.
Jesus called them vipers, asps, whited sepulchres, by judgement, yet his love would be offered to them as well at his death !
Jesus said this.....
John 17
17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18] As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. [19] And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through thy truth.

Paul went on to clarify the work of the word of God, truth!
2 Timothy 3:16
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Soooooo...........

I did attempt to answer your questions
@Wrangler

 

[face2face]

yet from your questions and answers.. it does not seem you know what it means or what it is for..

Truth is Eternal is Aunty Jane does not know what the Kingdom of God is because her community cast off the Jews a long time ago.

The first mention of the Kingdom is here:

He (Jesus) will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,Luke 1:32

The disciples eagerly anticipated the establishment of this Kingdom with its center in Jerusalem with its King enthroned in Glory (not in Heaven!)

"Will you now restore the Kingdom of Israel? Acts 1:6

No doubt you don't need me to show you the connection between God giving him Davids throne and the word RESTORE? It's self explanatory.

So the Kingdom will have a King, it will have Servants and Subjects who he rules over in Righteousness.

If you read Psalm 72 (a fav) you will be shown a vision of what this Kingdom will be like and how the nations will pay tribute to its King. For those Elect, chosen and glorified they will have the task of teaching the Gospel to the Jews who are now fully back in the land....from here Israel will be the Kings and Priests God intended them to be from the beginning.

I could write pages more about this coming Kingdom but hopefully this is what you have in mind...Aunty Jane is another matter.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Who said? Not ALL Christians are chosen for a role in heaven.....only those with the “heavenly calling”. (Heb 3:1)

Yes the calling is "from" Heaven toward those on Earth! Their role is one Earth!

 

[Aunty Jane]

Again by your own admission you said, you didn’t know what Born Again means.

Again….I have never once said that….I gave a detailed explanation of what I believe it means to be “born again”……you seem to be the one with no answers, and yet you think you can instruct those of us who disagree with your vague responses. I am left shaking my head.

 

[Ritajanice]

Again….I have never once said that….I gave a detailed explanation of what I believe it means to be “born again”……you seem to be the one with no answers, and yet you think you can instruct those of us who disagree with your vague responses. I am left shaking my head.

Yes you did...you said I threw it around.

If you believe you know what it means....then join us in the thread I recommended?

Put your knowledge in front of us....and please don’t cop out....I will be looking out for you.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Here it is @Aunty Jane ..I can post more if you like.

LOL…..it is a term “thrown around by many Christians”…..I did not single you out. I have encountered many who think that just claiming to be a Christian makes them automatically “born again”….that is what I meant…

Where did you explain what it means to be Born Again...please post page number?

Or maybe you can explain it again....what does Spirit gives birth to spirit mean?

How do we become “ Born Again “ @Aunty Jane ?

Here it is again….

Since my questions have so far been ignored, I assume that the answer is “I dunno”.….so I will tell you what it means to be “born again” according to the scriptures, not according to Christendom’s flawed theology……it means to experience a rebirth in a new body to live in a different realm…..to be “born again” is a process that begins with an anointing with holy spirit, a token whilst still in the flesh, of the life to come for this exclusive group.

Ephesians 1:13-14….
“But you also hoped in him after you heard the word of truth, the good news about your salvation. After you believed, you were sealed by means of him with the promised holy spirit, 14 which is a token in advance of our inheritance, for the purpose of releasing God’s own possession by a ransom, to his glorious praise.”

Being born again or experiencing a rebirth, comes at their resurrection….they are given a spirit body in order to be able to live in the spirit realm with Jesus and his Father.

1 Cor 15: 22-23….
“For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each one in his own proper order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence.”

There is an order to the resurrection……Christ was the “first fruits” of those raised to life in the spirit…then there are the elect (those who belong to Christ, during his presence.) There is a “first resurrection” for the elect, who will assume the role of “kings and priests” with Jesus in his role as God’s appointed king. These alone put on immortality.”

As I mentioned also, I know a few in my brotherhood who know that they will be “born again” because they have received that “token in advance” from God‘s spirit, confirming their election. Not all Christians are chosen for the role they will play in heaven. As “kings and priests”, they will need subjects to rule and sinners for whom to perform their role as priests…..all chiefs and no Indians does not a kingdom make.

 

[Jack]

The NWT is possibly the worst Bible translation ever. But it does proclaim Jesus is God and Hell fire is everlasting!

 

[Aunty Jane]

@Aunty Jane ...once again no answer?

I am getting ready for my Christian meeting…..I’ll be back tomorrow….

 

[Jack]

JW's avoid questions like plague!