Question for non-JW's

[Gottservant]

What is needed is maturity among believers.

A mature believer makes work a priority and concerns themself with peace and inspiration.

I know that if I continue in the stead of a mature believer, I will be rewarded.

 

[Aunty Jane]

every soul is immortal.

Can I ask you where that is written? I cannot find those two words “immortal soul” side by side in any passage of scripture….it seems to be an almost universal assumption…..yet the Jews were NEVER taught that their soul was immortal. They believed that living breathing creatures, (both humans and animals) ARE “souls”….and in both cases they die the same death (Eccl 3:19-20)…..breathing stops and the soul dies along with the body (Ezekiel 18:4).……the Bible does not teach that humans were “given” a soul when they were conceived.….but that they (like Adam) “became“ a soul with “the breath (spirit) of life”. (Genesis 2:7)

what is important, is where that soul will spend eternity.

All living, breathing “souls” were created to live on earth. Only spirit beings inhabit the spirit realm, and God had already created his angelic sons to dwell there……millions of them. Earth was never supposed to be a training ground for heaven.
“Everlasting life” was supposed to be lived right here, and the “tree of life” was there in the garden to guarantee that humans who obeyed God could live forever. We know that they did not obey their God and lost that prospect, having access denied by God to the only means to keep them alive forever….this is not immortality or the command containing the death penalty would have been meaningless. An immortal cannot die. Nowhere did God tell his people that they could be immortal after death. He taught them that there could be a restoration of life by means of a resurrection, but this was a return to life, not a continuation of it in another form, in another realm.

God sent Jesus to pay the debt that Adam left for all his children…..he gave his life in exchange for ours so that God’s first purpose could be restored….it was impossible for it to fail. (Isaiah 55:11)

do they have eternal life, or eternal death (also called the second death)

There is only one who has lived eternally, and that is the Father, Yahweh. He alone was immortal and is the Creator of all living things. His first creation was his “only begotten son”….the only “son” to be created directly by his Father, (Rev 3:14) who was used thereafter in the creation of all other things in heaven and on earth. ( Col 1:15-17; John 1:2-3)

Those saved by the sacrifice of Christ, have two different destinies……there are those chosen as God’s “elect” were to be transformed into spirit beings in order to rule with Jesus as “kings and priests” in heaven, (Rev 20:6) these alone are granted immortal spirit life for the purpose of ruling redeemed mankind who will be resurrected back to the earth, and will be granted everlasting life if they have proved faithful. (John 5:28-29) Many of those resurrected will not have known God or his Christ in the past and will be given opportunity to become citizens of God’s kingdom, ruled by its hand picked “kings and priests”.

There seems to be this blanket belief that if you declare yourself a Christian, it automatically means that you are of the elect…..but that is not true. God chooses his elect, (a little flock. Luke 12:32) but the majority of Jesus’ disciples will live on earth, where God put us in the first place. We had an assignment from God that we have never had an opportunity to fulfill…..that of taking care of all that God created….the planet…its many creatures….and each other….the devil was permitted to introduce his rulership over the human race to prove that only those who obey God will succeed. Just look at the mess the earth is in…..only God’s kingdom will bring the earth back to paradise and remove those who are presently ruining it. (Rev 11:18)

Jesus came so that we can finally be what God intended us to be…his stewards here on this beautifully prepared earth, designed to bring us nothing but delight….living forever in paradise on earth…..not heaven.

 

[Wrangler]

every soul is immortal.

If that's true, why did Jesus say we should fear the One who can destroy our soul?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Simply, the Father God, the one and only divine being who used his Spirit to create his Son, became resident within him, to then drive him to the Cross, to then resurrect him from his mortal sacrificial death after he, his Son, suffered and died on the Cross for my sins and to fulfill his legal obligations to his Father, the only God.

The son was not created. the son "always was"

As he said to moses. I always existed "I am who I am"

and as he said to the pharisees. Before abraham was, I always existed.

to Make the son a mere mortal would negate his sacrifice. Only God can take the sin of the world..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I would not be so quick to announce your verdict or conclusion.

If one defines a human soul as its body containing a spirit that causes life or animation aka, a breathing and awake/living person, then after death regardless of faith in Christ or not, the spirit returns to the realm of our Creator God. Now judgment is given to his Son concerning its disposition whether to become a new immortal soul where the spirit becomes housed in a new body or not.

Now the spirit part is not really called immortal from a human perspective, it is eternal it is everlasting as it is part of God. In fact all spirits are, as God is the Father of all spirits.

The body or vessel is destroyed upon human death. So if the spirit does not acquire a new vessel or body where the same spirit can inhabit and become alive as a new soul, it is not immortal or everlasting at all.

My answer is that a soul in this life by my definition is never eternal or immortal. It would be a very premature conclusion to draw.

In the next life it still depends on the Father via his Son's judgement concerning the disposition of the give human spirit for new life of immortality.

-------------

In Gen 2:7 “And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.”

Adam was given a soul or that some form of life called a “soul” was put within him. It says that he became a living being (nephesh in Hebrew). ..soul..

So, you became a living soul in this life and you can or cannot become a new living soul in the next life.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality” (1 Corinth 15:52-53). For those who are saved. we still MUST PUT ON immortality from this present mortal soul life.

Satan (represented symbolically as a serpent) who lied to Eve, telling her that if she ate the fruit of the tree she would not die: “Then the serpent said to the woman, ‘You will not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil’” Gen 3:4-5.

Evil lied to her and God said you can die, meaning non-existing as a soul. He always keeps the spark of life the spirit part of it though.

Heb 9:27 states, “And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment.” The judgement is knowing whether there will be a replacement soul, a new soul of not, non-existent as not being, or it will become immortal.

The problem is that living soul has a dead spirit,. which must be born again. If it is nto born again, it will nto see the kingdom of God in this life or the next.

That is What God decided, that is why he came and offered himself on the cross.. so just as when moses lifted the serpent. He too was lifted that whoever believes will not perish, but has eternal life (will live forever)

there is your living soul which will receive a new body at the return of Christ.

those who are not born again, will be delievered to christ for judgment, and found guilty and cast with Satan to the lake of fire. also called the second death, where they will live forever in that state..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sure you can! Why else would Christ give us the Great Commission if we could not save people? AGENCY.

so I am God? I can die for you? You can believe in me and I will make you alive?

Come on man, All I can do is plant the seed.. God has to save you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Can I ask you where that is written? I cannot find those two words “immortal soul” side by side in any passage of scripture….it seems to be an almost universal assumption…..yet the Jews were NEVER taught that their soul was immortal. They believed that living breathing creatures, (both humans and animals) ARE “souls”….and in both cases they die the same death (Eccl 3:19-20)…..breathing stops and the soul dies along with the body (Ezekiel 18:4).……the Bible does not teach that humans were “given” a soul when they were conceived.….but that they (like Adam) “became“ a soul with “the breath (spirit) of life”. (Genesis 2:7)


All living, breathing “souls” were created to live on earth. Only spirit beings inhabit the spirit realm, and God had already created his angelic sons to dwell there……millions of them. Earth was never supposed to be a training ground for heaven.
“Everlasting life” was supposed to be lived right here, and the “tree of life” was there in the garden to guarantee that humans who obeyed God could live forever. We know that they did not obey their God and lost that prospect, having access denied by God to the only means to keep them alive forever….this is not immortality or the command containing the death penalty would have been meaningless. An immortal cannot die. Nowhere did God tell his people that they could be immortal after death. He taught them that there could be a restoration of life by means of a resurrection, but this was a return to life, not a continuation of it in another form, in another realm.

God sent Jesus to pay the debt that Adam left for all his children…..he gave his life in exchange for ours so that God’s first purpose could be restored….it was impossible for it to fail. (Isaiah 55:11)

There is only one who has lived eternally, and that is the Father, Yahweh. He alone was immortal and is the Creator of all living things. His first creation was his “only begotten son”….the only “son” to be created directly by his Father, (Rev 3:14) who was used thereafter in the creation of all other things in heaven and on earth. ( Col 1:15-17; John 1:2-3)

Those saved by the sacrifice of Christ, have two different destinies……there are those chosen as God’s “elect” were to be transformed into spirit beings in order to rule with Jesus as “kings and priests” in heaven, (Rev 20:6) these alone are granted immortal spirit life for the purpose of ruling redeemed mankind who will be resurrected back to the earth, and will be are granted everlasting life if they have proved faithful. (John 5:28-29) Many of those resurrected will not have known God or his Christ in the past and will be given opportunity to become citizens of God’s kingdom, ruled by its hand picked “kings and priests”.

There seems to be this blanket belief that if you declare yourself a Christian, it automatically means that you are of the elect…..but that is not true. God chooses his elect, (a little flock. Luke 12:32) but the majority of Jesus’ disciples will live on earth, where God put us in the first place. We had an assignment from God that we have never had an opportunity to fulfill…..that of taking care of all that God created….the planet…its many creatures….and each other….the devil was permitted to introduce his rulership over the human race to prove that only those who obey God will succeed. Just look at the mess the earth is in…..only God’s kingdom will bring the earth back to paradise and remove those who are presently ruining it. (Rev 11:18)

Jesus came so that we can finally be what God intended us to be…his stewards here on this beautifully prepared earth, designed to bring us nothing but delight….living forever in paradise on earth…..not heaven.

wow, just wow,

Here is mormon doctrine to a T

put away your book of mormon and pick up a Bible. and find the truth..

God sent Jesus to pay for the SINS of the world.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

1 John 2:2
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

as for eternity

The jews believed in eternal life (see matt 19)

Jesus said whoever believes will never perish but they will live forever.

he also said those who do not will be cast to outer darkness where they will be forever.

yes, Only God is immortal (the father son and spirit)

but once a person is Born, that persons soul is eternal.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If that's true, why did Jesus say we should fear the One who can destroy our soul?

what do you think happens when a soul is sent to hell?

Its called the second death, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Ritajanice]

The problem is that living soul has a dead spirit,. which must be born again. If it is nto born again, it will nto see the kingdom of God in this life or the next.

That is What God decided, that is why he came and offered himself on the cross.. so just as when moses lifted the serpent. He too was lifted that whoever believes will not perish, but has eternal life (will live forever)

there is your living soul which will receive a new body at the return of Christ.

those who are not born again, will be delievered to christ for judgment, and found guilty and cast with Satan to the lake of fire. also called the second death, where they will live forever in that state..

Exactly.....we only have that relationship with our living God, through Jesus and becoming Born Again..you can only know Jesus, by being birthed in the Spirit....those who play this down.....hmmm, is all I can say....

 

[APAK]

The problem is that living soul has a dead spirit,. which must be born again. If it is nto born again, it will nto see the kingdom of God in this life or the next.

That is What God decided, that is why he came and offered himself on the cross.. so just as when moses lifted the serpent. He too was lifted that whoever believes will not perish, but has eternal life (will live forever)

there is your living soul which will receive a new body at the return of Christ.

those who are not born again, will be delievered to christ for judgment, and found guilty and cast with Satan to the lake of fire. also called the second death, where they will live forever in that state..

Agreed, that those in Christ and are one of the elect shall have eventually an enduring soul within the completed Kingdom.

 

[APAK]

The son was not created. the son "always was"

As he said to moses. I always existed "I am who I am"

and as he said to the pharisees. Before abraham was, I always existed.

to Make the son a mere mortal would negate his sacrifice. Only God can take the sin of the world..

1. I do take scripture where it is 'clear', at face and obvious value and understanding; not always the case though. And one that is, refers to the Son of God in how he was made. He was created and conceived on a particular date: day and hour in time.

2. And there is no relationship at all between the personal expression of YHWH in the OT and Jesus in the NT on speaking openly with the Pharisees concerning his stature/ranking and mental conception by his Father, for his future Son before the first man was created. These verses you bring up in Exodus and John mix like oil and water. One is the expression of YHWH of being or existing eternally and the other is a common Greek expression of identification used by all people. This common short phrase of I am (he) was used by many people beside Jesus to emphasize that he was or is part of that particular subject matter at hand. I would suggest your read some Hebrew and common Greek for these words in question to really know how quite different in translation and above all in meaning. You should be quite surprised by the results of this study. I know that this is a common misconception and err and many people as yourself parrot it.

3. Another general and common reaction when one believes the Son was created...
You said that the Son was a mere mortal not I. And negating any sacrifice by being moral is untrue. It's quite the opposite in fact if you want me to further discuss this with you.

4. And yes, our Father God through his instrument, his mortal Son, the 2nd and last Adam who he created for this specific purpose and more, completed this essential task of legal payment for sin caused by the 1st mortal man, Adam.

 

[Wrangler]

so I am God? I can die for you? You can believe in me and I will make you alive?

Come on man, All I can do is plant the seed.. God has to save you

This shows your questions are not those if an intellectual nature but intended to persuade. The truth does not matter to you, only advancing your ideology.

Make A Blessed Day!

 

[Wrangler]

And there is no relationship at all between the personal expression of YHWH in the OT and Jesus in the NT on speaking openly with the Pharisees concerning his stature/ranking and mental conception by his Father, for his future Son before the first man was created. These verses you bring up in Exodus and John mix like oil and water. One is the expression of YHWH of being or existing eternally and the other is a common Greek expression of identification used by all people. This common short phrase of I am (he) was used by many people beside Jesus

Well said. Again the truth does not matter, only advancing their ideology.

The VOICE translation is so devout to YHWH identifying himself to Moses as eternal, that that is how they render his name, the Eternal One.

It is such a unique attribute that Jesus obviously fails to have since Jesus died.

 

[Jack]

This shows your questions are not those if an intellectual nature but intended to persuade. The truth does not matter to you, only advancing your ideology.

Make A Blessed Day!

Truth? You said Jesus isn't THE Savior. Utter hypocrisy!

 

[APAK]

Another Kingdom Hall victim?

Hebrews 1
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him."
7 And of the angels He says: "Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire."
8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions."10 And: "You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.

You have a knack for labelling folks I see. It is a common trend these days, especially in web chat sites. And then they usually get it all wrong anyway, as you did, here. What is your label then, a narrow path or a wide road Christian? Or maybe part of Churchianity, the most popular type of place or state and residence for the common person that knows of the Bible but usually does not live it or really cares to know it?

I do not have a label at all as I am APAK.

Hebrews 1: 6-10 you quote, do you understand it? Do you know that portions of it may not be the best translation? In fact the translation is so poor it makes one believe that Yahshua is the LORD God and also owns the same throne as his Father, who is God.

It is a very deceptive area of scripture indeed, ready-made as a trap for the unsuspecting....and....and...

I suggest you do some research on it and get back with me later if you want to discuss it further. You might be amazed.

 

[Jack]

You have a knack for labelling folks I see. It is a common trend these days, especially in web chat sites. And then they usually get it all wrong anyway, as you did, here. What is your label then, a narrow path or a wide road Christian? Or maybe part of Churchianity, the most popular type of place or state and residence for the common person that knows of the Bible but usually does not live it or really cares to know it?

I do not have a label at all as I am APAK.

Hebrews 1: 6-10 you quote, do you understand it? Do you know that portions of it may not be the best translation? In fact the translation is so poor it makes one believe that Yahshua is the LORD God and also owns the same throne as his Father, who is God.

It is a very deceptive area of scripture indeed, ready-made as a trap for the unsuspecting....and....and...

I suggest you do some research on it and get back with me later if you want to discuss it further. You might be amazed.

My "knack" is understanding people's doctrines and associates. When you quack like a JW and agree with JW's then you're in the same sinking boat.

 

[APAK]

My "knack" is understanding people's doctrines and associates. When you quack like a JW and agree with JW's then you're in the same sinking boat.

You do not know these people's doctrines and their so-called associates. Do you know your doctrines and associates?

At least those that you label here who disgust you, believe in the TRUE Son of God, of the Father. It would be no stretch to then say you do not believe this at all. You twist it and reverse it and say God is the Son or God the Son. You know you do and you cannot deny it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

1. I do take scripture where it is 'clear', at face and obvious value and understanding; not always the case though. And one that is, refers to the Son of God in how he was made. He was created and conceived on a particular date: day and hour in time.

2. And there is no relationship at all between the personal expression of YHWH in the OT and Jesus in the NT on speaking openly with the Pharisees concerning his stature/ranking and mental conception by his Father, for his future Son before the first man was created. These verses you bring up in Exodus and John mix like oil and water. One is the expression of YHWH of being or existing eternally and the other is a common Greek expression of identification used by all people. This common short phrase of I am (he) was used by many people beside Jesus to emphasize that he was or is part of that particular subject matter at hand. I would suggest your read some Hebrew and common Greek for these words in question to really know how quite different in translation and above all in meaning. You should be quite surprised by the results of this study. I know that this is a common misconception and err and many people as yourself parrot it.

3. Another general and common reaction when one believes the Son was created...
You said that the Son was a mere mortal not I. And negating any sacrifice by being moral is untrue. It's quite the opposite in fact if you want me to further discuss this with you.

4. And yes, our Father God through his instrument, his mortal Son, the 2nd and last Adam who he created for this specific purpose and more, completed this essential task of legal payment for sin caused by the 1st mortal man, Adam.

then how can Jesus be before abraham, if was was created at his birth..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This shows your questions are not those if an intellectual nature but intended to persuade. The truth does not matter to you, only advancing your ideology.

Make A Blessed Day!

I am just trying to make reality fit with my belief.

God can use me to share his gospel. to plant a seed.

But i have no power to save anyone.

so to say I can save anyone in anyway is just nonsense.. and takes credit away from God

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well said. Again the truth does not matter, only advancing their ideology.

The VOICE translation is so devout to YHWH identifying himself to Moses as eternal, that that is how they render his name, the Eternal One.

It is such a unique attribute that Jesus obviously fails to have since Jesus died.

Yet when Jesus said before abraham was "ego eimi" (the same words the God of Abraham said to moses at the burning bush) and the jews picked up stones to stone him for blasphemy (declaring to be God) we should just ignore that fact