Questions For A Catholic

[Foreigner]

I was not using the number game to imply that it is a faith encouraged by God. I was using the number game to show that YOUR statement about Catholics' lack of openess and about Catholicism decreasing is false.

-- I would appreciate you showing which statement I made decrying Catholics' "lack of openess about Catholicism."

I would also ask what in the world the current number of Catholics in the world have in refuting someone making that statement?

 

[Selene]

If Catholics were willing to accept the scriptural feedback they are receiving with the same openness and faith that they are asking non-Catholics to accept their non-scripture based claims, I am of the opinion there would be a lot fewer Catholics in the world today.

It is post number 713 as shown above. The fact that we have been open about our faith and tolerant of other beliefs is the very reason for the increase in Catholicism especially in Africa and Asia - continents that are majority pagans.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

It is post number 713 as shown above. The fact that we have been open about our faith and tolerant of other beliefs is the very reason for the increase in Catholicism especially in Africa and Asia - continents that are majority pagans.

I think this is a good point.

If you take many of the other religions of the world, they have lots and lots of traditions and rituals. Catholics also are steeped in tradition and rituals.

Many people of Africa who have not converted to Christianity yet have been exposed to it call Christianity "Cold". I guess maybe the lack of celebration and decor. It's very big in many cultures to honor ancestors, whether this is a religious belief or not, it's still part of their culture.

Often times the Catholic Church does resemble other religions in the way of having lots of traditions and rituals. This in turn makes many xenophobic westerners shy away. Understandably so, since we're big on appearances, and frequently quote "avoiding all appearance of evil",,, we take this right down to facial hair in some Churches. However, I accept this and even agree, and completely understand where people are comming from when they have this view and agreement with Scripture. However, I do think that it's subjective to the observer and the culture.

Now, back on track with the traditions and rituals of the RCC....It seems a very likely choice for someone comming from many of the other religions such as Budhism, or Hinduism. When a person has spent their life in traditions and rituals, it's very hard to see something such as a Baptist church as warm and inviting or even something they can relate to. This is not to undermine a viewpoint of an argument that "The RCC is pagan......" etc, etc,,,, and not to undermine that God can change someones heart. But honestly, the human nature is still there, and we're all creatures of habit. LOL, no pun intended.

Even with my disagreeing views of the Catholic Denomintation, I've always viewed it as a very nice transition from Paganism to Christianity. If someone comes from one religion to Christianity by way of the Catholic church, How is that completely bad even if the RCC might be wrong?

 

[aspen]

There were 43 people in my RCIA class - 32 were Protestants - 17 were Presbyterians. The Parish was in Eugene OR - only SF is more liberal, yet the conservative Catholic Church is growing fast.

As Selene pointed out, the Catholic Church is growing even faster in Africa and Asia

 

[Anastacia]

There were 43 people in my RCIA class - 32 were Protestants - 17 were Presbyterians. The Parish was in Eugene OR - only SF is more liberal, yet the conservative Catholic Church is growing fast.

As Selene pointed out, the Catholic Church is growing even faster in Africa and Asia

Just because you claim so many Protestants joining your church---that doesn't mean anything good. Not everyone hears the Truth, and not everyone who hears the Truth accepts the Truth. You are proof of that.

 

[Anastacia]

I think this is a good point.

If you take many of the other religions of the world, they have lots and lots of traditions and rituals. Catholics also are steeped in tradition and rituals.

Many people of Africa who have not converted to Christianity yet have been exposed to it call Christianity "Cold". I guess maybe the lack of celebration and decor. It's very big in many cultures to honor ancestors, whether this is a religious belief or not, it's still part of their culture.

Often times the Catholic Church does resemble other religions in the way of having lots of traditions and rituals. This in turn makes many xenophobic westerners shy away. Understandably so, since we're big on appearances, and frequently quote "avoiding all appearance of evil",,, we take this right down to facial hair in some Churches. However, I accept this and even agree, and completely understand where people are comming from when they have this view and agreement with Scripture. However, I do think that it's subjective to the observer and the culture.

Now, back on track with the traditions and rituals of the RCC....It seems a very likely choice for someone comming from many of the other religions such as Budhism, or Hinduism. When a person has spent their life in traditions and rituals, it's very hard to see something such as a Baptist church as warm and inviting or even something they can relate to. This is not to undermine a viewpoint of an argument that "The RCC is pagan......" etc, etc,,,, and not to undermine that God can change someones heart. But honestly, the human nature is still there, and we're all creatures of habit. LOL, no pun intended.

Even with my disagreeing views of the Catholic Denomintation, I've always viewed it as a very nice transition from Paganism to Christianity. If someone comes from one religion to Christianity by way of the Catholic church, How is that completely bad even if the RCC might be wrong?

The Catholic religion goes against the Word of God. How is that acceptable in any account? If there are people in the Catholic religion who really belong to God and Jesus, then they will leave the Catholic religion.

Revelation 18:4

Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “‘Come out of her, my people,’
so that you will not share in her sins,
so that you will not receive any of her plagues;

 

[amadeus]

Anastacia: I hardly recognize what you say as anything from the Bible.

Then for your benefit, Anastacia, I have inserted scriptural references throughout my post!

Amadeus:
So then who is it that does have the Truth? When Pilate asked, "What is truth", [John 18:38] he didn't realize that Truth itself stood before him [John 14:6].

How much does each of us have of Jesus? [That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." John 1:9. Note that it says "every man" that cometh into the world". This is not speaking of born again, but being born of woman ]

Amadeus: Then again just exactly what is Jesus? Is He not the Word made flesh? [John 1:14] So then is not the Word of God the flesh of Jesus [John 6:51], even as the Blood is the Spirit of God. ["...for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof..." Lev 17:14 and did not Jesus also have flesh?]

Amadeus: When have eaten all of His flesh and all of it has been quickened by God's Spirit then we have all of Him alive in us ["For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12. And when we are able to see Him face to face will it not be because our "eyes to see" have been perfected byt the Spirit of God bringing the Word to Life in us?

Amadeus: Does any Catholic have any portion of that Jesus alive in him? [See again John 1:9]

Amadeus: Does any non-Catholic have any portion of Jesus alive in him? [See again John 1:9 ]

Amadeus: The answer to both questions is, yes, unless you would confirm that all Catholics or all non-Catholics, or all of both are complete and absolute reprobates having no real Life in any of them.

Amadeus: As to sustaining, is it not God who sustains anything?

"And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." Col 1:17

[quote ]Amadeus: Has God ever used a sinner to do His work? Other than Jesus, what man has ever been used by God who was not a sinner? [Was Pharoah of Egypt a believer when Moses was sent to lead God's people out of the that land? Yet, wasn't Pharoah used by God to make His points? Wasn't Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon an unbeliever used by God in the time of Daniel the prophet?] [/quote]

Amadeus: If we are to cast out all of the Catholics as sinners, then there had be enough room in the place of casting out for all of the non-Catholic believers as well.

["Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matt 7:21-23]

Anastacia: Jesus is Truth.

Amen! "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

Anastacia: Jesus is the Word of God.

Amen! And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Anastacia: When you read the Bible...you read the Word of God.

Errr... not quite! The Word of God is alive! The Bible has the potential, but until it is injected with the Spirit in a person it is dead, just another book on the shelf

This is why an atheist can read the Bible and not understand it correctly.

This is why even believers can read the Bible and not completely understand every part.

This is why believers can read portions of scripture repeatedly and receive something new from God each time.

Remember these words!


"Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts" Zech 4:6

Anastacia: Catholics go against what the scriptures say.

Yes, but so do you, and so do I, to the extent that the Word of God is not written in our hearts and brought to Life in us by His Spirit. This lacking in Catholics and in you and in me, is the reason why we still sin instead of being sinless like Jesus was when He walked here 2000 years ago!

Anastacia: They go against the Word of God.

And so did you the last time you sinned, and so did I the last time I sinned!

Anastacia: If Catholics do things that are taught by men, then they worship God in vain. That's what Jesus says.

If anyone does the things taught by men in accord with the ways of men instead of the Way of God then they are missing the highway of holiness. This holds true for your or me or anyone, including Catholics. When your ways are always God's Way, then will you always be in a position to help Catholics and others who come short of God's glory!

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." Matt 7:3-5

Anastacia: If you obey Jesus' commands, that's when you eat the flesh of Jesus.

No, we eat His flesh every time we hear someone speak the words of scripture or we read them ourselves. But... we are eating of a dead thing, which will remain dead adn will rot inside of us, unless the SPirit of God within us quickens [brings to Life] that dead flesh within us.

Anastacia: If you are not obeying the Word of God, then you do not have Jesus.

Yes, indeed, and then whenever anyone of us commits any sin, we do not have Jesus, although He is always right there watching and waiting for us to turn to Him again! We serve a merciful God and a patient one... but if we push His patience too far, eventually, He will rejects us as He rejected King Saul [I Samuel 15:23] and as He finally rejected most of those multitudes that He had saved out of Egypt [Numbers 14:22-23]

Anastacia: Catholics have doctrines that are unbiblical.

Is there any church group that does not?

Where does scripture say to erect a cross at the places where we worship with, or without, an image of Jesus attached to it?

Where does the scripture say to celebrate the birth Jesus in Bethlehem by giving each other gifts?

Where does scripture say to go to your local physician when you are sick in your body?

Where does scripture say in the New Testament that people must tithe? When scripture [Old Testament] does say to tithe, does it not also say that the tithes are to be given to the Levites? Who is a Levite today among the ministers of Christian assemblies?

Anastacia: Just the name for the pope "Holy Father" will keep true believers far from the Catholic religion.

Well it will certainly keep many people away from Catholicism and hyposcrites in any church group will keep some people away as well. Just who is a "true believer"? Was King David a "true believer" when he took Bethsheba in adultery and when he had Uriah murdered? Are you or I "true believers" when after having received His Spirit, we trample on that Spirit in order to sin again?

 

[mcorba]

The Catholic church does not have the Truth. So how could they of sustained anything?

Answering my enquiry with another question here?
Do you dispute that the Catholic church kept Christianity alive up to the advent of Protestantism?

How do you know what the Truth is? How sanctimonious - you just have your opinion, thats a different thing.
I bet you were also sure you knew the Truth when you were in the Catholic church previously, please follow this line of logic...

 

[TexUs]

I think this is a good point.Even with my disagreeing views of the Catholic Denomintation, I've always viewed it as a very nice transition from Paganism to Christianity. If someone comes from one religion to Christianity by way of the Catholic church, How is that completely bad even if the RCC might be wrong?

I may agree with this somewhat.
In my opinion any true student of the word, any true Christian seeking for truth, if they start out in the RCC, they aren't there for long. Any Catholic I know certainly doesn't live the life of one redeemed.

 

[mcorba]

So, when it is the pope talking, we have to have the correct context. When it comes to the word of God, context is irrelevant unless it supports our latest heresy. That my dear boy, speaks volumes.


Well Selene, what would you call this if not purile, infantile and very unclever.

Ok, Marksman, you clearly like a good argument, and are as sure of yourself (knowing the Truth) as Anastacia,
Whilst you await your questions answered, please answer me this one:
Where would your belief system be now if Catholic Christianity hadnt fought for centuries to preserve Christianity against the Muslim powers?
What do you think your belief system would be now, if it were not for centuries of defending Christianity, so that you could break away and develop your own (not even Protestant, presumably) ideology?

You are only free to think what you do because of our sustenance of Christianity for one and a half Centuries!
Talk about bite the hand that feeds your ideology/beliefs.
Yet we accept your right to have differing views, but you cannot accept the traditions that have developed over such a long time.

PS to everyone: Some really long winded responses here, please try and keep your responses succinct in the interests of sanity.

 

[Anastacia]

Answering my enquiry with another question here?
Do you dispute that the Catholic church kept Christianity alive up to the advent of Protestantism?

How do you know what the Truth is? How sanctimonious - you just have your opinion, thats a different thing.
I bet you were also sure you knew the Truth when you were in the Catholic church previously, please follow this line of logic...

Read the Bible, that's where you will read about the Truth. So then, how is that sanctimonious of me? When I was a young Catholic child, I knew the Catholic church went against some things that the Bible says, but people just seems to let it slide, or they would just try to explain it away. Then when I got older, I realized the Catholics did not have the Truth, I then began to search for God's Truth, and not a denonimation's truth. Start obeying God's Word, then amazing things can happen for you.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

Read the Bible, that's where you will read about the Truth. So then, how is that sanctimonious of me? When I was a young Catholic child, I knew the Catholic church went against some things that the Bible says, but people just seems to let it slide, or they would just try to explain it away. Then when I got older, I realized the Catholics did not have the Truth, I then began to search for God's Truth, and not a denonimation's truth. Start obeying God's Word, then amazing things can happen for you.

I've also experienced this from every denomination that I've encountered. I've experienced this in varying degrees from everyone I've encountered in life and online.

Out of curiosity, and with all due respect.....

What is it that you call the truth? What is it that you call a lie? Can you give any specifics aside from Jesus is the truth, or the Bible is the truth? What exactly is it that you find wrong, and how does it compare to with what the word of God says?

I'm wondering if it's just your view on somethings, or maybe your personal understanding of definitions and meanings of phrases and words. What exactly is your statement of faith?

 

[aspen]

Read the Bible, that's where you will read about the Truth. So then, how is that sanctimonious of me? When I was a young Catholic child, I knew the Catholic church went against some things that the Bible says, but people just seems to let it slide, or they would just try to explain it away. Then when I got older, I realized the Catholics did not have the Truth, I then began to search for God's Truth, and not a denonimation's truth. Start obeying God's Word, then amazing things can happen for you.

You are just playing dress-up with somebody else's clothes and claiming you made them. You claim to rely on the Bible, but deny the canon of the Bible relies on the Catholic Church.

 

[Anastacia]

Anastacia: When you read the Bible...you read the Word of God.

My replies to amadeus in blue.

Errr... not quite! The Word of God is alive! The Bible has the potential, but until it is injected with the Spirit in a person it is dead, just another book on the shelf

What you said here is false. And what you say here contradicts. You think only the popes can give the correct meaning of the scriptures? You think the popes can give the true meaning of the scriptures when they add to the word of God? The Bible says to check the scriptures to see if what we are being taught is true.



This is why an atheist can read the Bible and not understand it correctly.

This is why even believers can read the Bible and not completely understand every part.

This is why believers can read portions of scripture repeatedly and receive something new from God each time.

Remember these words!

"Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts" Zech 4:6


I like to try to explain what the Bible says, because the evil one comes and snatches away from people who don't understand.
The Catholic church and other false religions help cause people to not understand.

Matthew 13:19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path.


Anastacia: Catholics go against what the scriptures say.

Yes, but so do you, and so do I, to the extent that the Word of God is not written in our hearts and brought to Life in us by His Spirit. This lacking in Catholics and in you and in me, is the reason why we still sin instead of being sinless like Jesus was when He walked here 2000 years ago!

What on earth are you talking about saying "so do you"? And what on earth are you talking about when you say "the Word of God is not written in our heart and brought to Life in us by His Spirit"?! That is not biblical what you say, in fact, that goes against what God says.

Anastacia: They go against the Word of God.


And so did you the last time you sinned, and so did I the last time I sinned!

You don't even speak as someone who knows the Word of God.


Anastacia: If Catholics do things that are taught by men, then they worship God in vain. That's what Jesus says.


If anyone does the things taught by men in accord with the ways of men instead of the Way of God then they are missing the highway of holiness. This holds true for your or me or anyone, including Catholics. When your ways are always God's Way, then will you always be in a position to help Catholics and others who come short of God's glory!

I'm talking about what the Bible says. I'm talking about men teaching things wrong about what God says. You got way off.



Anastacia: If you obey Jesus' commands, that's when you eat the flesh of Jesus.

No, we eat His flesh every time we hear someone speak the words of scripture or we read them ourselves. But... we are eating of a dead thing, which will remain dead adn will rot inside of us, unless the SPirit of God within us quickens [brings to Life] that dead flesh within us.

What are you talking about? The words of God aren't dead! We don't eat a dead thing, as you say! And we cannot just read what the Bible says, we must do what the Word says. When we obey Jesus, we eat from Jesus. Jesus is the bread of life. Jesus' words are life.

James 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.
Jeremiah 11:6 The LORD said to me, "Proclaim all these words in the towns of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem: 'Listen to the terms of this covenant and follow them.
Matthew 7:24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Luke 6:46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?
Romans 12:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

Anastacia: Catholics have doctrines that are unbiblical.

Is there any church group that does not?

Where does scripture say to erect a cross at the places where we worship with, or without, an image of Jesus attached to it?

Where does the scripture say to celebrate the birth Jesus in Bethlehem by giving each other gifts?

Where does scripture say to go to your local physician when you are sick in your body?

Where does scripture say in the New Testament that people must tithe? When scripture [Old Testament] does say to tithe, does it not also say that the tithes are to be given to the Levites? Who is a Levite today among the ministers of Christian assemblies?

There are churches that are closer to the Truth. I don't know everything about every denomination and non denominational church, and I check on everything that is taught. The Catholic church is against the Word of God. The pope is called "Holy Father"! How one can put themselves under a religion that sins like, or stay with a religion like that, after being shown, is beyond me.

Anastacia: Just the name for the pope "Holy Father" will keep true believers far from the Catholic religion.


Well it will certainly keep many people away from Catholicism and hyposcrites in any church group will keep some people away as well. Just who is a "true believer"? Was King David a "true believer" when he took Bethsheba in adultery and when he had Uriah murdered? Are you or I "true believers" when after having received His Spirit, we trample on that Spirit in order to sin again?

I can't hardly believe you ask if King David was a true believer. I can hardly believe you don't think any one is a true believer. I guess you don't think God will seek and find any true worshiper? And you don't think what Jesus said is possible when he said "Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks." John 4:23.

 

[marksman]

Using the numbers game to show support of Catholicism and imply that it is because it is a faith encouraged by God is not a wise move.

Of course we won't mention that about 80% of them never step inside the door of a rcc and being catholic doesn't make you a christian. We had a spate of gangland killings over the last two years about 30 in all. In nearly every case, the funerals were in the rcc, with the priest giving the impression they were nice inoffensive people and didn't deserve to die.

 

[amadeus]

Amadeus:

So then who is it that does have the Truth? When Pilate asked, "What is truth", he didn't realize that Truth itself stood before him. How much does each of us have of Jesus? Then again just exactly what is Jesus? Is He not the Word made flesh? So then is not the Word of God the flesh of Jesus, even as the Blood is the Spirit of God.

Marksman:

No you silly sod, and that is a coloquism in my country, the Word of God is not the flesh of Jesus. All it means is that the Word, Jesus became flesh to show us the Father. When he ascended into heaven, he no longer was flesh. I wish you catholics would stop saying such stupid things.

You should read more carefully my friend, and a little prayer would help to hopfully receive enough Spirit to bring that dead scripture to Life in you.

You should also be careful about lumping people together based upon which group they apparently belong to.... For your information i am not a Catholic.

When you do read your Bible, try these verses first::

"Love is patient and kind. Love knows neither envy nor jealousy. Love is not forward and self-assertive, nor boastful and conceited.

She does not behave unbecomingly, nor seek to aggrandize herself, nor blaze out in passionate anger, nor brood over wrongs.

She finds no pleasure in injustice done to others, but joyfully sides with the truth.

She knows how to be silent. She is full of trust, full of hope, full of patient endurance." I Cor 13:4-7

 

[marksman]

I am still waiting for answers to all these questions....

1. And where in scripture does it say to pray to the Holy Spirit? Just a straight forward answer of specific verses would be appreciated, not some waffle about, this that and the other.

Jude 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Selene, Selene, Selene. Your knowledge of basic scripture is ssssoooooooooooooo lacking.

Quote one: 1. And where in scripture does it say to pray to the Holy Spirit? The key word here is TO.

Quote two: praying in the Holy Ghost,.The key word here is IN.

Praying TO and praying IN are quite different. If that is all you can offer, it means that you have no scriptual authority to pray TO the Holy Spirit.

Please do your homework before you parrot other people pontifications and which you don't understand.

 

[aspen]

What are you talking about? The words of God aren't dead! We don't eat a dead thing, as you say!

We eat dead things all the time Anastacia!!! Come on Anastacia ADMIT IT! Unless you eat LIVE things, but you don't so don't lie about it!

Just trying to do a better job of meeting you where you are at Anastacia

 

[marksman]

Ok, Marksman, you clearly like a good argument, and are as sure of yourself (knowing the Truth) as Anastacia, Whilst you await your questions answered, please answer me this one:

At last, someone has admitted that they are not answering the questions they said they would answer.

 

[aspen]

At last, someone has admitted that they are not answering the questions they said they would answer.

Well, let me be the second to admit that I am but a worm....an intellectual infant - hoping to bask in the glow of your bountiful intellect, marksman.....I am in your debt

-your intellectual / doctrinally challenged inferior, aspen