Questions for Sabbatarians

[Big Boy Johnson]

No worries, it was a courtesy reply. The hostility is off the charts here.

If someone does not agree with you... they are being hostile towards you???

If this is how you feel, I'm sorry to hear that. It must be tough to live like that.

No it's all His doctrine and He gave the Ten Commandments and never repealed one of them.

Actually Christians are not under the Law of Moses, we live in the age of grace under the New Covenant (Romans 6:14)

The problem centers around the rejection of Hebrews 10:9, Hebrews 7:12, and the Lord's leading of the Apostles at The Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 which is how we know for a fact that Saturday sabbath is not required for New Testament believers.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

The Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 we see how the Holy Spirit led the Apostles to conclude that gentile converts to Christianity were not obligated to keep most of the rules prescribed to the Jews by the Mosaic Law, such as Jewish dietary laws and the rules concerning circumcision of males. The Apostles were led by the Lord to retain the prohibitions on eating blood, meat containing blood, and meat of animals that were strangled, and on fornication and idolatry.

These finding cannot be explained away... not to even mention Jesus and His Apostles never taught we were supposed to keep Saturday sabbath... but they never once corrected anybody for NOT keeping Saturday sabbath.

 

[Ghada]

Perhaps you're against religious liberty. Sorry to hear that.

Oh. It's just religious liberty you exhort.

BarneyFife said: ↑
It is much, much more likely that the 4th commandment was so entrenched in the worship of the true God that no issues arose from its standing, one way or another.

You can see where you at least appear to preach the OT 4th commandment as a NT commandment of Christ.

So, we have no disagreement over Christians keeping any voluntary religious practice. (So long as it doesn't violate the commandments and law of Christ)

I don't remember your posts being so unpleasant when you first got here.

I hadn't been personally attacked for challenging someone's teaching. You're the first.

BarneyFife said:
Evil surmising and false witness/gossip

Perhaps you thought you could open fire as a site 'manager', and be immune to fighting fire with fire? As the saying goes, "You respect me, and I'll respect you."

Or maybe you felt unduly attacked by a misunderstanding? In future, you might just want to clear up misunderstandings right off, as you've finally done so here. It's not necessary to use such inflaming remarks in such cases.

I had initially thought about reporting you to your own people, but I figure if 'managers' do something openly, then it must be ok. I guess leaving the argument in order to make personal accusations, doesn't count as 'lamp lighting' and 'goading'.

But in any case, since we're all cleared up about your own personal voluntary religious practice, then I say God speed in it.

I personally practice Christ's sabbath by being at rest in Him from my own works of self-will and unrighteousness. Jesus calls it worshipping and walking in the Spirit daily.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

An actual day of physical rest is always good to. Which I suppose could include personal exercise and friendly play and sports at the park.

 

[BarneyFife]

If someone does not agree with you... they are being hostile towards you???

Not usually, no, since they are two different things, and often appear one without the other.
The hostility to which I was referring was not from you.

Actually Christians are not under the Law of Moses, we live in the age of grace under the New Covenant (Romans 6:14)

The problem centers around the rejection of Hebrews 10:9, Hebrews 7:12, and the Lord's leading of the Apostles at The Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 which is how we know for a fact that Saturday sabbath is not required for New Testament believers.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

The Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 we see how the Holy Spirit led the Apostles to conclude that gentile converts to Christianity were not obligated to keep most of the rules prescribed to the Jews by the Mosaic Law, such as Jewish dietary laws and the rules concerning circumcision of males. The Apostles were led by the Lord to retain the prohibitions on eating blood, meat containing blood, and meat of animals that were strangled, and on fornication and idolatry.

These finding cannot be explained away...

They're not "findings," at all—they're misapplications of Scripture and arguments from silence that have been refuted many times without ANY response or rebuttal—only doubling down.

I say "misapplications" because I wouldn't want to use a term like "rejection," which denotes a heart issue that only God Himself could judge.


.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

arguments from silence

It cannot be refuted that we see the Lord thru Paul correcting people on all sorts of issues and topics... except not keeping Saturday sabbath. The Apostles would have to have been in error at the Counsel of Jerusalem in Acts 15 to not include Saturday sabbath... IF Saturday sabbath was in fact a requirement for New Testament believers.

If the Lord required New Testament believers to keep Saturday sabbath... then we would see warnings and corrections for those not keeping Saturday sabbath and that is not found anywhere in the New Covenant.

If this is one of God's commandments, then it would be salvation critical meaning those not keeping Saturday sabbath would be sent to hell... and the Lord would have warnings about not keeping Saturday sabbath.

The fact of the matter is... under the New Covenant there is a different rest for God's people than what was available under the OT, one that is far superior than what Saturday sabbath was under the OT law.. For that reason, I'm not doing Saturday sabbath

As far as resting the mind and body one day a week, that's a great idea and very beneficial... but, it's not required that we do this on Saturday only. Folks can choose to rest on Saturday, but there's not biblical requirement to do so... one can rest on Wednesday is they want... and be you know... Hump Day People!

 

[BarneyFife]

It cannot be refuted that we see the Lord thru Paul correcting people on all sorts of issues and topics... except not keeping Saturday sabbath.

Responding to a claim of argument from silence with another argument from silence doesn't make much sense.

The Apostles would have to have been in error at the Counsel of Jerusalem in Acts 15 to not include Saturday sabbath... IF Saturday sabbath was in fact a requirement for New Testament believers.

By this logic they would also have been in error not having addressed the other 9 commandments of the Decalogue.

If the Lord required New Testament believers to keep Saturday sabbath... then we would see warnings and corrections for those not keeping Saturday sabbath and that is not found anywhere in the New Covenant.

Unless God chose not to consult people who demand such warnings and corrections in His Word before deciding what to include in It.

If this is one of God's commandments, then it would be salvation critical meaning those not keeping Saturday sabbath would be sent to hell...

Not any more or less so than the other 9 commandments, no

and the Lord would have warnings about not keeping Saturday sabbath.

Again, unless He took it upon Himself to decide what would appear in Scripture, rather than "by the will of man" (2 Peter 1:21).

The fact of the matter is... under the New Covenant there is a different rest for God's people than what was available under the OT, one that is far superior than what Saturday sabbath was under the OT law..

It is neither "fact of the matter" nor "matter of fact," but two different things entirely, neither of which the LORD has ever repealed.


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[Wrangler]

Jesus said he is the Lord of the Sabbath. This informs us the Sabbath remains a thing to submit to the Lord’s will. Any theory to the contrary is convoluted, at best.

 

[Ziggy]

Luk 6:9
Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?

Act 2:46
And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

Just thinking...

When the church was in the wilderness for 40 years, 6 days God would send manna and feed them.
On the 7th day he did not feed them, but provided them enough on the 6th day to hold them until the 1st day.
Everything God gave them for 6 days had to be eaten that same day and not held overnight. Except for the 6th day. This could be held over the next day.

Why didn't God feed them on the 7th day the same way he had fed them the other 6 days of the week?
Because he was giving them rest from their labors. Unlike in Egypt under Pharoah where they worked everyday and were given no rest but the more they complained the heavier their burdens.

Jesus said:
Mat 11:28
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

The church in the wilderness followed God and he gave them rest.
He gave them his sabbath.
He gave man his Son.

Now how oft do we find rest in Jesus? Is it one day a week? Every day of the week? Or could it be for eternity?
You decide I guess how oft you need to seek rest in him, but I rest in him everday for eternity.

Heb 4:1
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:2
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Heb 4:3
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Psa 95:1
O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.
Psa 95:2
Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms.
Psa 95:3
For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods.
Psa 95:4
In his hand are the deep places of the earth: the strength of the hills is his also.
Psa 95:5
The sea is his, and he made it: and his hands formed the dry land.
Psa 95:6
O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker.
Psa 95:7
For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,
Psa 95:8
Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Psa 95:9
When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.
Psa 95:10
Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
Psa 95:11
Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

Hugs

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Responding to a claim of argument from silence with another argument from silence doesn't make much sense.

I posted scripture that cannot be refuted unless one wants to... throw portions of the New Testament in the trash!

Obviously you think Saturday sabbath is still a requirement which is your right. Enjoy!

I'm going to enter in to the rest found by abiding in Christ Jesus 24/7/365 which is far superior than what they did on Saturday during the old covenant. I like to walk in God's best, but that's just me.

By this logic they would also have been in error not having addressed the other 9 commandments of the Decalogue.

There was no need since the other 9 are in the new testament already.

There was a better command in place for Saturday sabbath which is why they did not include it.

Unless God chose not to consult people who demand such warnings and corrections in His Word before deciding what to include in It.

Thank you for that argument from silence!

Not any more or less so than the other 9 commandments, no

Then whether one keeps Saturday sabbath or not under the New Covenant... is a moot point altogether.

Again, unless He took it upon Himself to decide what would appear in Scripture, rather than "by the will of man" (2 Peter 1:21).

It's sad to hear that apparently you believe... Jesus did not decide what went in to His Canon.
Very sad indeed.

It is neither "fact of the matter" nor "matter of fact," but two different things entirely, neither of which the LORD has ever repealed.

I'm going to enter in to the rest found by abiding in Christ Jesus 24/7/365 which is far superior than what they did on Saturday during the old covenant.

So, enjoy your Saturday only stuff... I'm going to rest everyday!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Jesus said he is the Lord of the Sabbath. This informs us the Sabbath remains a thing to submit to the Lord’s will. Any theory to the contrary is convoluted, at best.

And yet... Jesus never said anybody was required to observe Saturday sabbath

When Jesus ascended up to Heave, He continued His teaching ministry thru the Apostles that He used to put His Word in to print... and Jesus never said anybody was required to observe Saturday sabbath thru His Apostles either.

Weird! Reckon He forgot to mention it???

Why didn't God feed them on the 7th day the same way he had fed them the other 6 days of the week?

Because under the Law of Moses... Saturday sabbath was a thing.

Under the Law of Christ (New Covenant), it is not a thing because a different rest has replaced Saturday sabbath which made it obsolete since we are IN Christ now and ... HE is out rest... HE is our sabbath 24/7/365 (Mat 11:28, Hebrews 4:9-11)

 

[BarneyFife]

I posted scripture that cannot be refuted unless one wants to... throw portions of the New Testament in the trash!

Posting Scripture for the purpose of refuting other Scripture is what you seem to be doing.

There was no need since the other 9 are in the new testament already.

There was no reason because all 10 were in the Old Testament, which were the only Scriptures available at the time.

There was a better command in place for Saturday sabbath which is why they did not include it.

Where is this "better command in place" found in the Old Testament, which were the only Scriptures available at the time?

Thank you for that argument from silence!

It wasn't an argument at all. Sometimes the best one can do to respond to an argument from silence is to suggest another possibility.

Then whether one keeps Saturday sabbath or not under the New Covenant... is a moot point altogether.

Only if whether one refrains from idolatry, murder, adultery, etc. under the New Covenant is a moot point altogether.

It's sad to hear that apparently you believe... Jesus did not decide what went in to His Canon.
Very sad indeed.

Here you go to the trouble of drawing a strange conclusion from what you referred to above as an argument from silence (even though in this instance I referred to Scripture to support it)—a conclusion that I call "strange" because it concludes exactly the opposite of my claim—that God determines what goes into the Bible "not by the will of man" (2 Peter 1:21).


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[Big Boy Johnson]

I'm going to enter in to the rest found by abiding in Christ Jesus 24/7/365 which is far superior than what they did on Saturday during the old covenant.
So, enjoy your Saturday only stuff... I'm going to rest everyday!

 

[Ziggy]

Why didn't God feed them on the 7th day the same way he had fed them the other 6 days of the week?

Because under the Law of Moses... Saturday sabbath was a thing.

Moses hadn't been given the law yet. The manna was given in Exodus 16, the water from the rock in Exodus 17, and the they got to Mt Sinai in Exodus 19. So the law of the Sabbath hadn't been written in stone but had come directly from the mouth of God.

Exo 16:1
And they took their journey from Elim, and all the congregation of the children of Israel came unto the wilderness of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day of the second month after their departing out of the land of Egypt.
Exo 16:2
And the whole congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and Aaron in the wilderness:
Exo 16:3
And the children of Israel said unto them, Would to God we had died by the hand of the LORD in the land of Egypt, when we sat by the flesh pots, and when we did eat bread to the full; for ye have brought us forth into this wilderness, to kill this whole assembly with hunger.
Exo 16:4
Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
Exo 16:5
And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily
Exo 16:6
And Moses and Aaron said unto all the children of Israel, At even, then ye shall know that the LORD hath brought you out from the land of Egypt:
Exo 16:7
And in the morning, then ye shall see the glory of the LORD; for that he heareth your murmurings against the LORD: and what are we, that ye murmur against us?

Exo 16:22
And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
Exo 16:23
And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
Exo 16:24
And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
Exo 16:25
And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
Exo 16:26
Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
Exo 16:27
And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
Exo 16:28
And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
Exo 16:29
See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
Exo 16:30
So the people rested on the seventh day.

I think the emphasis on the day misses the point of the bread God supplied them for the 7th day.
They laid it up till morning, and it did not stink, neither was their any worm therein.

The bread was without corruption.
What is the bread? Jesus is the bread, it is his word that is incorruptable.
And on the sixth day God prepared this particular bread with no corruption for the 7th day.

Jesus is the truth. God's word is truth. God's word is incorruptible. Like the manna given on the sixth day that would hold over through the 7th day. That's today.

Hugs

 

[Wrangler]

And yet... Jesus never said anybody was required to observe Saturday sabbath

Why do you suppose Jesus has the burden of repeating what is already established? Jesus never said you have to eat. Yet, I bet you do it anyway.

 

[Ziggy]

Exo 16:4
Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.

What proof was God looking for? Was it not their faith the he would provide for them?

Deu 8:2
And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.

This next passage made me think of the serpent and why God allowed him in the garden, or why there is evil allowed in the world today:

Jdg 2:20
And the anger of the LORD was hot against Israel; and he said, Because that this people hath transgressed my covenant which I commanded their fathers, and have not hearkened unto my voice;
Jdg 2:21
I also will not henceforth drive out any from before them of the nations which Joshua left when he died:
Jdg 2:22
That through them I may prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk therein, as their fathers did keep it, or not.
Jdg 2:23
Therefore the LORD left those nations, without driving them out hastily; neither delivered he them into the hand of Joshua.

2Co 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

There were some that went out on the sabbath day to look for manna but they found none.
They didn't have faith that God would provide for their needs.
The Sabbath was a test.
So some people believe that keeping one day a week of rest is difficult. But now, it's everyday of the week we rest in Him.
If you lose your job will you trust God to provide for you?
If the market shelves are empty will you trust God to feed you?
If the world somehow finds a way to remove churches and religion, will you still trust God's promises?

God gave them rest even though they didn't deserve it. They cried and they murmered and they had no faith.
Your life is that day that we rest in Him. We trust him and believe him to provide for us daily.
Give us this day our daily bread..... DAILY.

Feed us manna everyday. Give us your word everyday.
Have faith everyday. Trust God everyday.

Because you don't know when the thief will come and try to take it from you.
Prepare your bread everyday for those days when you need it more than others.
Because trials will come, temptations will come and you don't want to get caught hungering for the bread of life.

Amo 8:11
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

Be prepared. To Day.

Hugs

 

[Ghada]

They are obviously not keeping the sabbath as instructed under the law of Moses so it's not the same as the sabbath back then.

This is the whole point. They are not at all keeping the Lord's 4th commandment of the OT. They have their own play-play sabbath.

They not only don't punish the sabbath breakers with death, but they even preach breaking it. Making their pay corban only insults the intelligence of honest people.

They just having church in Saturday and not really doing the sabbath like the Jews did under the Law of Moses.

It's similar to the Amish claiming they don't believing in using modern technology and then they cheat by going to people that are not Amish to have things done to take advantage of their use of modern technology.

Like the hypocrite Jews of old, they command and say, but do not.

God has no exceptions for His commandments, but men are always coming up with exceptions for their own commandments, because its' not possible to do them at all times in this life.

It's very simple: they make exceptions for their sabbath. So why for for adultery and killing and profaning the name of the Lord?

 

[Tulipbee]

1. Where is the proof that any man ever kept the seventh day, except by special commandment, prior to the proclamation of the ten commandments at Mount Sinai? (Gen. 2:2, 3; Ex. 16:23-30; 20:1-17).

1. If Christians are required to keep the seventh day, why do you depart from your dwelling on that day, seeing those to whom the law was given were plainly commanded not to do so? (Ex. 16:29).
2. If you keep one Sabbath – the seventh day – why not keep them all, the seventh year and the year of Jubilee? Who authorized you to make distinction in favor of the seventh day? (Lev. 25 :1-22)
3. If Christians are required to keep the Sabbath, how are they to live in cold climates when it is forbidden to build a fire on the Sabbath? (Ex. 35:1-3).
4. Is it the duty of Christians to put to death those who desecrate the seventh day? (Num. 15:32-36). If yes, who will be the public executioner? If no, what will you do with the law? (Ex. 35:2). If you say that the penalties are abolished, I answer that the same passages that you use to establish this prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the law, too, is abolished. If you admit that the penalties are still in force-and the proof that they are unanswerable and invincible if the law is in force-there is not a Seventh Dayist on top of the green earth who can escape the vengeance of the broken law!
5. If Christians are under obligation to observe the seventh day, why did Jesus declare that all law and prophecy hang on love instead of the Sabbath, seeing the command to keep it is the one on which you hang your everlasting all? (Matt. 22:34-40; Rom. 13:8-10).
6. Why did Jesus not require the young ruler to keep the Sabbath when enumerating the commandments? (Matt. 19:16-20; Mark 10:17-22; Luke 18:18-24).
7. If Christians are to keep the law of Moses-the Sabbath-why did the apostles and elders who met at Jerusalem leave it out of their address to the churches? (Acts 15 :1-29). This case finds, in some respects, a parallel in your theorizing. Judaizing teachers had gone forth declaring to the brethren that unless they would submit to circumcision and keep the law of Moses they could not be saved. The apostles said, “We gave no such commandment.”
8. If Christians are required to keep the Sabbath, how are we to account for the open violation of the law by Jesus Christ, who is our example, unless by saying that the power that made the law can take it away (John 7 :22-23).
9. If you keep the Sabbath because you think it was kept before the law of Moses, why do you not practice circumcision, seeing it is plainly commanded in these ages? (Gen. 17:1-14; Gal. 5:1-6).
10. When did patriarch, prophet, or apostles, or anybody else, command any Gentile to keep the law of Moses? No dodging here. Proof! Proof! Proof!
11. Paul says the ministration of death written and engraved in stone (Ex. 20:1-17; 31:18; 32 6:15-16; 34:1-28) was done away (2 Cor. 3:1-18). When, where, and by whom was it brought back into force? Name the day, the age, the authority, and give proof from the Book! If your doctrine is true the great apostle of the Gentiles stands convicted of a mistake.
12. If the early Christians kept the Sabbath day, why did they break bread on the first day of the week? (Acts 20:7).
13. If Christians are to keep the Sabbath day, how do you account for the fact that the apostles preached the gospel in Jerusalem, Samaria, to Cornelius the Gentile, and to many others, without commanding a single individual to keep it? Did they, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit fail to properly instruct their converts? (Acts 2:1-47; 8:1-40; 10:1-48 ;16:1-40).
14. Is it not a fact, according to the book of Acts, that the thing done was of more importance than the day? Acts 20:7.
15. Can you demonstrate that the day you keep is really the seventh day or Sabbath, coming down in regular succession from the day on which God keeps? If not, your day is no better than any other day. Admitting, for argument’s sake, that the law of Moses is still in force, and that the fourth commandment is binding on the whole human race, will you affirm that it is possible for all men to keep the same day?
    
    
    If so, how do you explain the fact that the traveler who starts out to go around the earth, gains, say, if going east, one hour for every thousand miles traveled, or if going west loses an hour for every thousand miles traveled? How far would he go before he lost the count? Do you not see that he would inevitably be behind or in advance? Further, how do you explain the fact that far away toward the extremes of the earth, traveling from the equator, there are periods of six months night and six months day from age to age? Do you not see that it is a geographical impossibility for all men to keep the same day, and that the Law was only intended for one people, one country, and one age?
16. Do you keep the Sabbath day? No dodging, do you? Do you rest, or put in the day promulgating your doctrines? If you do not keep the day according to the Law, you do not keep it at all. If part is done away, then all is done away. Read Exodus 20:8-11; 35:1-3.
    
    

Well, Big Boy Johnson, you've brought up some interesting points about the seventh day, and I'm here to share a Calvinistic perspective with a touch of humor. Let's dive in!

1. Special Commandments and Sabbath Keeping In the beginning, there's this divine day off mentioned in Genesis 2:2-3. It's like the ultimate weekend plan. Then, bam, Mount Sinai and the Ten Commandments. Now, if Christians are into the seventh day, why the Sunday stroll? Exodus 16:29 does make a solid point about not leaving your dwelling, but maybe we're just taking "rest day" a bit liberally?
2. Seventh Day vs. Seventh Year Great question about the seventh year and the Jubilee! Leviticus 25:1-22 does lay out a whole calendar, doesn't it? Who authorized the seventh-day preference? It's like choosing your favorite flavor of ice cream, but with more theological consequences.
3. Cold Climate Sabbath Survival Now, about cold climates and Sabbath heating restrictions (Exodus 35:1-3) - that's a chilly challenge! I guess those ice fishing trips on the Sabbath might need some divine intervention.
4. Sabbath and Punishments Execution for Sabbath desecration (Num. 15:32-36)? That's some serious Sabbath enforcement. But hey, if penalties are still in force, we might all be in a bit of a tight spot. Is it judgment day every Sabbath?
5. Law Hangs on Love, Not Sabbath Jesus playing favorites with love over Sabbath (Matt. 22:34-40; Rom. 13:8-10)? It's like choosing between pizza and salad – love is the universal topping!
6. Jesus and the Sabbath in Commandments Jesus missed the Sabbath memo when listing commandments (Matt. 19:16-20; Mark 10:17-22; Luke 18:18-24). Maybe it was an oversight? Or perhaps he was saving the best for last?
7. Apostles Skipping Sabbath in Jerusalem Acts 15:1-29 – the apostles and elders omitting the Sabbath in their address. It's like saying, "We didn't get the memo about Sabbath being non-negotiable."
8. Ministration of Death and Paul's Plot Twist Paul dropping bombshells about the ministration of death (2 Cor. 3:1-18). If it's done away with, is the whole law in the recycling bin too? Paul's got us pondering.
9. Early Christians Breaking Bread on First Day Acts 20:7 – breaking bread on the first day of the week. Maybe they were just ahead of their time, or maybe potlucks are timeless, regardless of the day.
10. The Day and Earth's Time Zones Time zones and Sabbath consistency – that's a geographical puzzle! Traveling around the earth and losing count? It's like a divine game of hide and seek with time.

So, do I keep the Sabbath? Well, let's just say my rest day involves a different kind of "divine inspiration." As for Exodus 20:8-11, I might need to renegotiate my day off with the Big Guy. Cheers to theological ponderings and Sabbath day musings!

 

[Ziggy]

This is the whole point. They are not at all keeping the Lord's 4th commandment of the OT. They have their own play-play sabbath.

They not only don't punish the sabbath breakers with death, but they even preach breaking it. Making their pay corban only insults the intelligence of honest people.

Like the hypocrite Jews of old, they command and say, but do not.

God has no exceptions for His commandments, but men are always coming up with exceptions for their own commandments, because its' not possible to do them at all times in this life.

It's very simple: they make exceptions for their sabbath. So why for for adultery and killing and profaning the name of the Lord?

So which commandment is greater?
Thou shalt not Kill or keep the Sabbath?
Would you have people kill people for not keeping it?

See something is missing.Because when Jesus told the disciples it was ok to eat the corn in the field on the sabbath day, the Jews should of killed him right there, stone him to death.
When he healed people on the sabbath day the jews should of killed him right there, stoned him to death.

Mat 12:2
But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

I like this answer:

Mat 20:15
Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

Who's sabbath is it anyways?
And if God gave man his sabbath, then who's sabbath is it?

Jesus says the Son of man is Lord of the Sabbath.
Paul says people can keep the day or not keep the day. But either way we give God the glory.
Either way we have faith in God, not in the day. That's the point.

Should we break the 6th commandment to keep the fourth?
What a dilemma...

Hugs

 

[Ghada]

Oh boy..SMH. no it isn't. Where did you get that that is the doctrine of Christ? Sabbatarians don't go door to door--that is the JWs. I don't slam the door on them either.

I quoted the verse telling us to do so. I take all of God's words seriously enough to do them. I don't ignore them and act by my own understanding and sensitivities.

Whether it's JW's, sabbath commanders, or any other self-righteous judges of others, I have nothing to do with them other than to rebuke them, and do not bid them God speed.

And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

God really messed up when He put a ceremonial law into the 10 Commandments,huh?

And so, you acknowledge your personally commanded sabbath is a ceremonial joke.

And so you make a ceremonial joke out of the actual 4th commandment of God in the OT.

God's commandment of a sabbath in the OT was no joke. Yours is.

And as for Sabbatarians working as EMTs, or hospital folk, or in the military. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. Jesus healed on the Sabbath It wasn't Jesus who restricted the Sabbath like that--it was the Pharisees.

And you extend the joke to blindness. Jesus wasn't paid to heal. It wasn't His paying job.

Charitable work does not get fired for not showing up to work.

Men's commandments have exceptions. Not God's.

Once you make exceptions for any commandment, you open the door to exceptions for all commandments.

You preach a commandment of your own, that you then give exceptions for violating it.

But do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

and with respect to Sabbatarians in the military--most go in as CO so work in health or as chaplains.chaplains assistants, or medics.

And get paid for it. They willingly take jobs and careers, that they know requires paid work on their pseudo-sabbath.

This kind of blindness to simple facts, is how the light of truth shines, but willful darkness refuses to even comprehend the facts of the case.

Any honest little child knows the difference between bystanders helping others, and paid professionals.

You're duplicity is an insult to honest intelligence. What 'mercy work' are they getting paid while waiting on call? What 'mercy work' are soldiers doing while training and shining their boots for pay?

Ever hear of Desmond Doss?

'
Movie about him called Hacksaw ridge

And he was a hero in the field, and a hypocrite in sabbath keeping.

The children of Israel were not breaking any sabbath by warfare, because they weren't a paid professional army. When the shofar blew, they came running to battle.

Once again, you use carnal justifications of men to break your own commandments. God has not justified exceptions.

Like the JW created christers, they search under every nook and cranny to find their precious 'jehovah' in the NT, but the name is not there after He is named Jesus.

You try the say hijinks to find a sabbath command in the NT doctrine of the apostles, but the commandment is not made after Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection.

You exalt your precious sabbath commandment, and yet you can't even quote it by any apostle to the NT churches of God.

And then you despise your own commanded sabbath, by not keeping it.

And you dare to chide others for not being hypocrites like yourself?

I always knew about you sabbath keepers, but I never knew the childishly blind depths that you go to, in order to justify breaking it.

Keeping a sabbath by voluntary religious liberty is good, but commanding one on pains of transgression, is the same Christian Judaizing by law of circumcision.

And yet, you transgress it willingly. A commandment of God is not voluntary. It's the law.

@BarneyFife no reason to waste your time with this stuff.

I don't waste my time, when I know someone will not hear. I do it as a good exercise in correction for false doctrine and commandments of men.

"And loving it!" (Maxwell Smart)

I do it for my own practice and benefit. Much perfecting of the doctrine of Christ, comes from the necessity of exposing lies about it.

And Happy Sabbath to you!

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Why do you suppose Jesus has the burden of repeating what is already established? Jesus never said you have to eat. Yet, I bet you do it anyway.

He never instructed anyone to breathe air... and yet we all do... so what?

You missed in the New Testament where we are taught that a better sabbath has been established.

Those that want to stick with the old sabbath and no be upgraded,.,, can if they want, but they be missin out!