"Raise the dead"

[Richard_oti]

it works for me, because many of the saints/prophets... ect was killed or slain. Matthew 23:31 "Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets". Luke 11:47 "Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them". Romans 11:3 "Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life". 1 Thessalonians 2:15 "Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men"

Those work for the Matthew 27 account. That which you quoted from Revelation, doesn't fit the account from my perspective. But then again, you and I disagree with regard to Revelation in some aspects.

I believe I said that.

You may have. However you would not be the only one. For I also have said that many many times over the years.

if not, who are they then? waiting to hear that answer.

Those and others as you quoted above. IF the account is to be accepted with only one witness.

 

[101G]

Give the post number in reference to Matt 27

 

[bbyrd009]

There is no denying we will receive glorified bodies.

sure. ah, define glorified bodies? ty

 

[bbyrd009]

Your spirit was born again, but your body was not. Your standing is seated with Christ in heavenly places. Your state is still here on this earth draped with a body inherited from Adam. Your body still needs to die and be resurrected and united with you. Which it will, which will be part of the first resurrection.

can you support this some? mostly "Your body still needs to die and be resurrected and united with you." not looking for facts, ok, just support for this concept, even obliquely, or however you verified this position, would be great, ty

 

[bbyrd009]

So, what captives did Jesus come to set free? From what prison? Did Jesus come to set free those captive in a literal prison, or those captive in a spiritual prison?

well, i guess the Hebrews in Egypt are the model for that, and we have contemporary examples of prison conversions, where lifers are "set free," and i met some serious scholars in prison, you wanna education go do a prison ministry yikes, those guys will line you up lol.

John Baptist is...comes across as this flower of a guy, right, but see baptising Jews in the Jordan is tantamount to sedition, ok, when your whole nationality is tied up in the religion. And John was aware of this, he knew what was coming. The Messiah was supposed to be Their Boy, see, came up through the ranks and groomed for the crown, and Jesus paid them no attention, other than to, what, walk in to the temple and boldly start reading from Torah and interpreting It for Jews--i mean, who handed Him the Scrolls? If you were the poor Levite tasked for the morning reading, and Christ came walking up to you, you just backed th up is what you did, and you then got in trouble later, most likely, see, i seriously doubt He like bothered to get permission or anything first lol, who's He gonna get permission from, of course He had a rep as a Rabbi but he was not a Levite, so those vv convey...a completely diff atmosphere from reality too i am sure. Imagine Some Guy walking into your Cathedral and just humbly walking right up to the pulpit, on His business, not even really paying the priest any attention lol. Maybe a little nod from Jesus as you take a step back.

I ask, because, I don't understand how one verse can be taken as spiritual(eat my flesh and drink my blood) and then the next as strictly literal. I am asking if the bible is first physically with the naked eye, then Spiritual once one is born again. If we are to walk in the Spirit, then do we not read in the Spirit? And if one verse is Spiritual, then is not all?

this is why other ppl should not be interpreting for you i guess, at least after you get started. Also, see that your questions are still being asked from...you are still asking Qs wanting a yes or no answer? So, all those Qs up there, answer them for yourself. My opinion is that the Book is all about the spiritual rebirth, and every v should be framed from this pov, but are there some vv that should be or could be read strictly logically? Or could be validly interpreted logically? At times?

hey, these perspectives are a far cry from when you first started absorbing, and everything had to make logical sense to you, huh? And that got you this far, right? Same Book, the vv haven't changed any; your perspective has; and God comes to us wherever we are at. Imo Scripture does the same thing

now don't get me wrong, i consider other interpretations all day long, like i guess lots of people do, the diff would be in the hearing, how these are received iow, what shape the ground is in, what are the facts on the ground at the time iow.

 

[bbyrd009]

[42] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat:
(What meat for hunger?)

I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
(What drink? Jesus was thirsty at the well and asked for the woman to give Him water. Yet, Jesus said He gives living water so that he that drinks this living water will never thirst again.)

[43] I was a stranger,
(What stranger)

and ye took me not in:
(In where?)

naked, and ye clothed me not:
(What rainment if we have two, are we supposed to part to one that is naked?)

sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
(What prison)

We can either read: visit those in a literal prison, give literal water and food and clothing...or something else. What is the work of the Spirit?

imo to do one, and don't leave the other one hanging, is my take there. All of these can be read on multiple levels imo

 

[bbyrd009]

Please, you will help so much if you answer this question: "to raise the dead" does this mean Salvation or not even close.

yes, or no? if you come to a tree that guys outside the bar have been pissing on for 3 years, it's barely alive, and you stop everyone from pissing on it and you start watering it, will it live? does it immediately stand up straight and shoot out fresh leaves? It's touch and go for a while, see.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Aren't you the salt of the earth? Isn't your heart compared to soil? Then why is salt bad for soil?

 

[bbyrd009]

I get there is still a glorified body ahead.

i'd be suspicious of my definitions here though.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yeah, somehow that doesn't work for me as explanation of whom "arose" in the Matthew 27 account. The timing of that which you quote, doesn't fit the Matthew 27 account.

it works for me, because

i'll stay out of it, but sounds like R has found a logic trap

 

[Stranger]

can you support this some? mostly "Your body still needs to die and be resurrected and united with you." not looking for facts, ok, just support for this concept, even obliquely, or however you verified this position, would be great, ty

(John 3:5-7)
(Rom. 6:5-6)
(Rom. 7:24)
(Rom. 8:10)
(Rom. 8:23)
(1 Cor. 15:35-38)
(1 Cor. 15:42-44)
etc. etc.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

(John 3:5-7)

all of these 3 v seem to indicate a new, spiritual birth in...an extant body, to me. nobody physically died here and got a new body?
and etc, i'm sure.

 

[amadeus]

So, what captives did Jesus come to set free?

You and me and all of the other guys held captive to sin and our sinful ways.

From what prison?

The prison of death within ourselves which held us securely until we met the Master and took hold of the Life which he brought.

Did Jesus come to set free those captive in a literal prison, or those captive in a spiritual prison?

Why the original 12 disciples [apostles] follow after them when he called them? Perhaps they were held by the physical as well as the spiritual. What was it that had held them back before He called them and they answered?

I ask, because, I don't understand how one verse can be taken as spiritual(eat my flesh and drink my blood) and then the next as strictly literal. I am asking if the bible is first physically with the naked eye, then Spiritual once one is born again. If we are to walk in the Spirit, then do we not read in the Spirit? And if one verse is Spiritual, then is not all?

Read what it says and also hear what God says to you. It may be one or the other or both. What it is one time may not the same thing it is the next time. Without the leading of the Spirit what can we really understand of God's message to us?

Matthew 25:42-43
[42] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat:
(What meat for hunger?)

"In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat.
But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of.
Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?
Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work." John 4:31-34

What did the Samaritan woman give Jesus to eat?

I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
(What drink? Jesus was thirsty at the well and asked for the woman to give Him water. Yet, Jesus said He gives living water so that he that drinks this living water will never thirst again.)

"Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me." Matt 25:45

What is it that we have to give to Jesus and/or to the "least of these"?
"Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee:..." Acts 3:6

[43] I was a stranger,
(What stranger)

and ye took me not in:
(In where?)

Someone who is not our family nor even someone we really know at all, but recognizing the need and our ability to help, we supply. Consider the "good Samaritan" and his relationship to the one who fallen among thieves...

naked, and ye clothed me not:
(What rainment if we have two, are we supposed to part to one that is naked?)

Who is naked and in need of a covering be it physical or spiritual or both?

First the physical...
"And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons." Gen 3:7

But then when God saw that more was needed...
"Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them." Gen 3:21

sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
(What prison)

What ever it that binds us is our prison. Even Lazarus called out from death was still bound:

"And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go." John 11:44

What is the job of the ministry? Who among us is ever a minister? Who among us is called to loose someone is bound?

We can either read: visit those in a literal prison, give literal water and food and clothing...or something else. What is the work of the Spirit?

Why must is always be one or the other? What does God say to your heart when you recognize the need?

 

[amadeus]

... The "first" is when Jesus returns, the second, at the end of the millennium. It is a lone account in Matthew 27 without a second witness.

"at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall a matter be established."

What if the first is when Jesus returns in you or in me or in any of us? Is that not a resurrection, the first one for us? What does it mean to be born again if not to be resurrected from the dead? Are we not to be the Body of Christ? So is that not when He returns?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Are we clothed with new raiment?

Zechariah 3:3-4
[3] Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. [4] And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

Matthew 17:2
[2] And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Acts 18:5-6
[5] And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ. [6] And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

We walk by faith, not by sight.
Or do we wait for raiment?

Revelation 6:9-11
[9] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: [10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? [11] And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were , should be fulfilled.

 

[Richard_oti]

What if the first is when Jesus returns in you or in me or in any of us? Is that not a resurrection, the first one for us? What does it mean to be born again if not to be resurrected from the dead? Are we not to be the Body of Christ? So is that not when He returns?

I understand what you are saying. However what did Jesus say as recorded in John 3:5-7. Even those not "born again", or of spirit, shall have a "resurrection", although unto the second death.

To be "born again" from my perspective, is unto life more abundantly. Unto liberty from sin, and ultimately, from death.

And yes, we are to be a part of the Body of Christ. Baptized into his death [Rom 6:3], into the newness of life, in so that we also shall be amoung those rising again.


Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in clouds with great power and glory.

Act 1:11 who also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye looking into heaven? this Jesus, who was received up from you into heaven shall so come in like manner as ye beheld him going into heaven.

For I was speaking of a literal visible and audible return. At which point, is the resurrection of the literal dead.

 

[amadeus]

I understand what you are saying. However what did Jesus say as recorded in John 3:5-7. Even those not "born again", or of spirit, shall have a "resurrection", although unto the second death.

Here is one place we differ. Although I admit difficulty with at least one verse, I see those "not born again", the unbelievers who remain so until the end of their course [natural death] as being already condemned and dead in the eyes of God. There is not additional judgment for them. The second, if it is for anyone, is for the ones who seen salvation and then looked back as did Lot's wife, or have failed to stay ready as the 5 not so wise virgins.

To be "born again" from my perspective, is unto life more abundantly. Unto liberty from sin, and ultimately, from death.

But while a person may indeed taste of real Life [that being Jesus], he can choose to walk away from it if he wearies in well doing. he is like unto King Saul who gladly received God's anointing as King of Israel, but when it came to the hard times, instead of admitting his faults and any chastisement that was to be his, he tried to justify himself or lay the blame on others.

And yes, we are to be a part of the Body of Christ. Baptized into his death [Rom 6:3], into the newness of life, in so that we also shall be amoung those rising again.


Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in clouds with great power and glory.

And the clouds are what? What if they are those who resurrected first as the Bride of Christ? What if they overcame first and were already resurrected? Then they come with the Son of man with great power and glory?

Act 1:11 who also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye looking into heaven? this Jesus, who was received up from you into heaven shall so come in like manner as ye beheld him going into heaven.

For I was speaking of a literal visible and audible return. At which point, is the resurrection of the literal dead.

Or at which point as Jesus returns with the Bride for the judgment of the saints which did not make the Bride but would be part of the Body of Christ...

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Why must is always be one or the other? What does God say to your heart when you recognize the need?

I agree with much of what you have said, although I would disagree with the Good Samaritan and suggest differently. You asked: why can't it be both? I've asked the same question over and over and ask you to consider:

These are questions (not accusations): is it possible the word of God is first read with physical eyes, then with Spiritual. If we have tasted of heavenly things, why would we want to go back? A few verses that come to mind and I won't post them all but rather go off memory so forgive me if I misquote: once a man puts his hand to the plow, he is told to not look back. We are to set our affection on above, on heavenly things. We are no longer to focus on earthly things. if our affections are above: then when Jesus told them He would rebuild the temple in three days...His meaning becomes clear. We are told not to be double minded. So I ask you, Can we straddle the line between two affections, between the cares of the world and doing the will of the Father?

Mark 4:19 KJV
[19] And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

1 Corinthians 7:34 KJV
[34] There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

The wife of the law of flesh(Mosiac Law) cares for the things of this world. BUT a virgin cares for the things of the Lord, that she may be Holy both in body and spirit.

2 Corinthians 11:2 KJV
[2] For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.


No man can serve two masters.

Matthew 6:24-32 KJV
[24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. [25] Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? [26] Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? [27] Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? [28] And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: [29] And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. [30] Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? [31] Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? [32] (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

Is we are told to walk in the Spirit, and pray in the Spirit; then why does it suddenly shift toward the word of God?
we are to do both? At the same time?

 

[amadeus]

I agree with much of what you have said, although I would disagree with the Good Samaritan and suggest differently. You asked: why can't it be both? I've asked the same question over and over and ask you to consider:

These are questions (not accusations): is it possible the word of God is first read with physical eyes, then with Spiritual. If we have tasted of heavenly things, why would we want to go back? A few verses that come to mind and I won't post them all but rather go off memory so forgive me if I misquote: once a man puts his hand to the plow, he is told to not look back. We are to set our affection on above, on heavenly things. We are no longer to focus on earthly things. if our affections are above: then when Jesus told them He would rebuild the temple in three days...His meaning becomes clear. We are told not to be double minded. So I ask you, Can we straddle the line between two affections, between the cares of the world and doing the will of the Father?

We should not straddle between two affections, but as James states many of us do. They/we are double minded. We all are until we have overcome all of the things of the old man. I believe that we are or at least should be growing. If we are not eventually, the old man will regain what he lost in us. Otherwise we should listen to the words of John the Baptist:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

The "He" is the new man while the "I" is the old man in us. This the double mindedness. When we have overcome as Jesus overcame eventually the old man will be gone... completely dead. If we sit still [no growth, no increase, no eating His flesh & drinking his blood] our end result will be like that of this man:

"When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation." Matt 12:43-45

Mark 4:19 KJV
[19] And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

1 Corinthians 7:34 KJV
[34] There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

The wife of the law of flesh(Mosiac Law) cares for the things of this world. BUT a virgin cares for the things of the Lord, that she may be Holy both in body and spirit.

2 Corinthians 11:2 KJV
[2] For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

It all comes down to first things first, doesn't it?

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

If we are really putting the first things first [His kingdom and His righteousness] then God will see to it we have all of the rest that is necessary. Remember here also that God is the One who needs to decide for us what is necessary.

No man can serve two masters.

Matthew 6:24-32 KJV
[24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. [25] Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? [26] Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? [27] Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? [28] And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: [29] And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. [30] Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? [31] Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? [32] (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

I really do not believe we are disagreeing at all. If you have further questions, I will try to answer them, but as I believe you already know them.

 

[Richard_oti]

Here is one place we differ.

And that's okay. We can differ without being divisive. As we come from different backgrounds we are going to differ on things.

Although I admit difficulty with at least one verse, I see those "not born again", the unbelievers who remain so until the end of their course [natural death] as being already condemned and dead in the eyes of God.

Yet, until their last breath, they still have opportunity. Matthew 20:1-16 comes to mind. Assuming of course, they had not made a conscious decision to live a certain way and planned to repent at the last instant. Such would be dangerous from my perspective and perhaps to mock "God" [cf Gal 6:7]

There is not additional judgment for them.

Nor did they partake of the body, nor of the blood.

The second, if it is for anyone, is for the ones who seen salvation and then looked back as did Lot's wife, or have failed to stay ready as the 5 not so wise virgins.

Indeed. Consider Judas who partook of the "body" at the last supper, but not of the cup and the symbolism thereof. For as Jesus said: " Go and sin no more, lest a worse thing befall you".

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.
28 A man that hath set at nought Moses law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

There is another place nagging at me right now, but I can not recall it.

However, to partake of the body and turn away:

Heb 6:4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

To taste / partake of the body, of the Holy Spirit and turn away ...

It is not unlike the Exodus, and those who witnessed the power of "God" and heard the voice [cf Deut 4], yet turned away. As Hebrews 10 says, how much sorer punishment, for those who trample such.

But while a person may indeed taste of real Life [that being Jesus], he can choose to walk away from it if he wearies in well doing. he is like unto King Saul who gladly received God's anointing as King of Israel, but when it came to the hard times, instead of admitting his faults and any chastisement that was to be his, he tried to justify himself or lay the blame on others.

Indeed.

And the clouds are what?

Well, according to some I have heard, it is Jesus come again in the flesh riding in an airplane and it being televised so that every eye shall see him <chuckle>. And yes, I have seen that claim made.

What if they are those who resurrected first as the Bride of Christ? What if they overcame first and were already resurrected? Then they come with the Son of man with great power and glory?

1 Thess 4:14-17

Or at which point as Jesus returns with the Bride for the judgment of the saints which did not make the Bride but would be part of the Body of Christ...

Yeah, the jury is still out on that one for me. It was never something that I felt a need to pursue.

 

[amadeus]

And that's okay. We can differ without being divisive. As we come from different backgrounds we are going to differ on things.

Why is it that everyone who disagrees with me cannot answer like this? Thank you!

Yet, until their last breath, they still have opportunity. Matthew 20:1-16 comes to mind. Assuming of course, they had not made a conscious decision to live a certain way and planned to repent at the last instant. Such would be dangerous from my perspective and perhaps to mock "God" [cf Gal 6:7]

Amen!

Nor did they partake of the body, nor of the blood.

Indeed. Consider Judas who partook of the "body" at the last supper, but not of the cup and the symbolism thereof. For as Jesus said: " Go and sin no more, lest a worse thing befall you".

Yes, Judas should tell people something, but they are too often not paying attention. Their minds are already made up.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.
28 A man that hath set at nought Moses law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

There is another place nagging at me right now, but I can not recall it.[/quote]
Perhaps this one?

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" I John 2:1
If you have another one, let me know. Thanks.

However, to partake of the body and turn away:

Heb 6:4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

To taste / partake of the body, of the Holy Spirit and turn away ...

It is not unlike the Exodus, and those who witnessed the power of "God" and heard the voice [cf Deut 4], yet turned away. As Hebrews 10 says, how much sorer punishment, for those who trample such.

Amen!

Well, according to some I have heard, it is Jesus come again in the flesh riding in an airplane and it being televised so that every eye shall see him <chuckle>. And yes, I have seen that claim made.

1 Thess 4:14-17

Yeah, the jury is still out on that one for me. It was never something that I felt a need to pursue.

Sometimes I pursue things I haven't understood yet and sometimes I don't. Circumstances matter and what God says matters even more.

Give God the glory and may He richly bless you my friend!