Rapture Day (Catching up of Believers) is very Near!!

[Truth]

Have read. Have understood.

We will have a "rapture" after the dead are raised:

Rev. 20:7 And when the thousand years are ended, ...
12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done. 13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them​

... and then those who are alive and remain shall ascend to be with the LORD forever in the air (the New Jerusalem).

1 Thess. 4:16 ... And the dead in Christ will rise first; 17 then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord. ​

After all, how will the survivors of the final attack against Jesus get to the New Jerusalem except by rapture? -- Springs on the bottoms of shoes? Trampolines? Pogo Sticks?

Pretty simple, -- not church doctrine, which is FALSE --, but is Scriptural.
Bobby Jo

It was a long day yesterday! So the READ part was not expressed to you, only to others that might read that post! Too Many souls believe only what the paid Professionals spew from behind the Bul-pit, OOps, pulpit!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bobby Jo]

... then you are not true children of God.

I would think that statement is a little extreme, and better rendered as being misled by those who have different agendas typical of HIRELINGS who try to hold the "eminent return of Jesus" over our heads as a club to increase attendance at EVERY AVAILABLE SERVICE, and thereby participating IN THE OFFERING PLATE.

Secondly, if a person declines to follow Jesus' last instructions before going to the garden where HE instructed us to use our resources to meet our needs (Luke 20:34-35), then their foolishness may cost them their salvation -- similar to when Peter denied Jesus in the Courtyard --, or their lives. It's GOD's plan that we anticipate and prepare for the day (some ~18 months~ away by my understanding) when we won't be able to buy or sell.


But believing a "tribulation" rapture, or even a CME is not the measure of salvation. It's just a lack of reality!

Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

It was a long day yesterday! So the READ part was not expressed to you, only to others that might read that post! Too Many souls believe only what the paid Professionals spew from behind the Bul-pit, OOps, pulpit!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, I marked this "LIKED", but would have preferred "LIKED A LOT"!


Bobby Jo

 

[hermeneutics]

Sheer nonsense! Why can't people read and understand what the Bible really does teach?

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

I can only post scripture, to translate the above is pretty clear to me. If there is a different meaning as to what Jesus said give it to me.

BTW Daniel lived in the age of Law.
Jesus came to give life in age of Grace.

 

[Copperhead]

AND during the Tribulation those who refused the MARK will be raised, BUT THE DEAD WILL NOT BE RAISED until the thousand years are ended.

Didn't think it was worth commenting on. Seemed self explanatory.

I have never really focused on who gets raised at the end of the tribulation or even if anyone is. I think the final resurrection at the end of the 1000 years is everyone who wasn't raised at a earlier time. So nolo contedere.

 

[Keraz]

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

I can only post scripture, to translate the above is pretty clear to me. If there is a different meaning as to what Jesus said give it to me.

BTW Daniel lived in the age of Law.
Jesus came to give life in age of Grace.

Yes; we Christians are Promised Eternal life. John 3:16
But we still die and it is only at the Great White Throne Judgment, that all the people who have ever lived will stand before God and immortality is given to those who have proved worthy.

 

[Bobby Jo]

...
I have never really focused on who gets raised at the end of the tribulation or even if anyone is.

Have I errantly ventured into the wrong Topic? I thought this Topic pertained to the rapture of the church, and that participants in this discussion were both informed to one degree or another. Certainly many people join conversations in which they have TRUTHFUL, contrived, and even dishonest (read: satanic) input. But in this case it appears to be analogous to the ~Amazon Reviewer~ who answers a technical question with: ~"I don't know, I haven't the slightest clue." And it's not to suggest that that individual has a deficient I.Q., -- well, maybe it is.

... I think the final resurrection at the end of the 1000 years is everyone who wasn't raised at a earlier time. So nolo contedere.

I guess those raised from the dead at the time of Jesus' death, and then died again, are going to: ?stay in their grave because they were already raised once, and once is enough?


Please do a better "review",
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

Yes; we Christians are Promised Eternal life. John 3:16
But we still die and it is only at the Great White Throne Judgment, that all the people who have ever lived will stand before God and immortality is given to those who have proved worthy.

Agreed, -- with the understanding that those who are alive and remain at the end of the Millennial Kingdom will not have to DIE before they ascend to the New Jerusalem to be with the LORD forever in the air!


Bobby Jo

 

[Copperhead]

Have I errantly ventured into the wrong Topic? I thought this Topic pertained to the rapture of the church, and that participants in this discussion were both informed to one degree or another.

Nope, I don't think you ventured in to the wrong topic. The resurrection of the specific body of Messiah Ekklesia (church) occurs early in or before the end time tribulation period. You mentioned about those who are resurrected during to after the tribulation period and those that are resurrected at the end of the 1000 years. I don't spend a lot of time on determining the details of those resurrections as to when they literally occur. Not the same group. Just like those resurrected in Matthew 27 were not of the specific Body of Messiah ekklesia that was started 49 days after their resurrection.

Cliff

 

[Copperhead]

they ascend to the New Jerusalem to be with the LORD forever in the air!

Are you certain the New Jerusalem will be forever in the air? I seemed to have gotten that idea from the wording of your post. I could be wrong in what it seemed you were stating.

 

[Copperhead]

I guess those raised from the dead at the time of Jesus' death, and then died again, are going to: ?stay in their grave because they were already raised once, and once is enough?

Would you be so kind as to show us the passage that says those resurrected saints of Matthew 27 died again? Is that what you were implying, that they died again? Again, I could be taking what you wrote the wrong way.

 

[Copperhead]

Sheer nonsense! Why can't people read and understand what the Bible really does teach?
The 'rapture to heaven' theory has been believed and gripped onto by millions of Christians. But it is a fable, just as Paul said in 2 Timothy 4:3-4

Oh come now. That verse makes no mention of a "rapture to heaven" as being a what Paul was writing to Timothy about. You have imposed your own idea of what is true or not on the text based on your own understanding. Not very good exegesis. Paul has been talking about immorality and perversion of the basic tenants of the faith growing in the church. Manner of proper Christian life issues. Eschatology is not a salvational issue. Very similar wording and exhortation that Hippolytus described 1.5 centuries later in Chapters 10-11 in his treatise "On The End Of The World".

 

[Bobby Jo]

Nope, I don't think you ventured in to the wrong topic. The resurrection of the specific body of Messiah Ekklesia (church) occurs early in or before the end time tribulation period. ...

I don't think you're following the conversation very well. -- The FIRST question is: When are the DEAD raised, -- which you obscured by asserting that the DEAD are raised throughout history. But that's a false narrative because all those DEAD eventually went back to the dust of the earth. -- We're talking about the DEAD who do NOT go back to the dust of the earth.

We "know" (but apparently don't want to admit) that before there can be a "rapture", that the DEAD must FIRST be gathered from their abode to stand before the Judgement Throne. And after the DEAD are raised at the end of the Millennial Kingdom, those who are alive and remain on earth shall ascend ( - rapture - ) to the New Jerusalem.


But what is Scripture except an inconvenient truth which is superseded by FALSE Church Doctrines ...
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

Would you be so kind as to show us the passage that says those resurrected saints of Matthew 27 died again? Is that what you were implying, that they died again? Again, I could be taking what you wrote the wrong way.

Yeah, you got me there. I can't show you the Widow's son; or the boy with the pain in his head; or the man who was thrown into Elisha's tomb; or the young man in the funeral procession; or the 12 year old girl; or Lazarus; or those shaken from their tombs; or Tabitha; or Eutychus. And according to your well argued thesis, I must agree that they're alive and well still today, but simply obscured by the hectic masses of humanity.

And now that I think of it, so too the "Knight" in the "Indiana Jones And The Last Crusade" (1989) because he drank from the wooden cup.


GREAT THEOLOGY. I'm placing YOU on my "FOLLOW" list! -- Yeah, NOT.
Bobby Jo

 

[Truth]

I guess those raised from the dead at the time of Jesus' death, and then died again, are going to: ?stay in their grave because they were already raised once, and once is enough?

I was in a discussion about those that were raised after HE was Raised, because I believe they were the First fruit's, after HIS Resurrection! I was dismissed by interruption, but the discussion was that NO one has ever gone to the heavenly relm, since the death of our Savior! I disagreed, I believe that our Savior, as HIS first act of High Priest. after the order of the Melchizedek, and took the first fruit offering and presented them before God, which are as John describes in the book of the Revelation, the Forty Elder's!! not cherubs, not angels, not celestial being's. ELDER'S!! What think Yhe?
God would not be very kind to raise Saints, just to let them stretch their legs, and then put them back to sleep!

 

[Copperhead]

I don't think you're following the conversation very well. -- The FIRST question is: When are the DEAD raised, -- which you obscured by asserting that the DEAD are raised throughout history.

That is a alteration of what I said. I said there are multiple resurrections mentioned in scripture.

 

[Copperhead]

Yeah, you got me there. I can't show you the Widow's son; or the boy with the pain in his head; or the man who was thrown into Elisha's tomb; or the young man in the funeral procession; or the 12 year old girl; or Lazarus; or those shaken from their tombs; or Tabitha; or Eutychus. And according to your well argued thesis, I must agree that they're alive and well still today, but simply obscured by the hectic masses of humanity.

And now that I think of it, so too the "Knight" in the "Indiana Jones And The Last Crusade" (1989) because he drank from the wooden cup.


GREAT THEOLOGY. I'm placing YOU on my "FOLLOW" list! -- Yeah, NOT.
Bobby Jo

What is it about you that wants to be so contentious? It was a simple question to find out how you determined that those resurrected saints of Matthew 27 died again.

The text is silent, but we do have writings from those who were closely associated with the Apostles or the students of the Apostles. And some of their writings say that these saints were taken by Yeshua to the Father. Now, I realize that is not scripture, but it is the assertion made by folks who are generally recognized as authoritative on what the early church believed, written by those who were part of the early church.

The Early Fathers and the Resurrection of the Saints in Matthew 27 – NORMAN GEISLER

 

[Copperhead]

We "know" (but apparently don't want to admit) that before there can be a "rapture", that the DEAD must FIRST be gathered from their abode to stand before the Judgement Throne.

And you came to that conclusion even after this.....

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NKJV) For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Just a basic reading of that seems to suggest that when the righteous dead are raised, we get caught up with them. Well, they would have to be raised first. After all, they have 6 feet more to go than we do.

And Isaiah 26 suggests that the dead and living righteous are gathered at the same time, likewise, before the indignation comes upon the earth.

Neither passage seems to suggest that the dead are raised and stand before a judgement throne before a rapture occurs.

 

[Bobby Jo]

I was in a discussion about those that were raised after HE was Raised, because I believe they were the First fruit's, after HIS Resurrection! I was dismissed by interruption, but the discussion was that NO one has ever gone to the heavenly relm, since the death of our Savior! I disagreed, I believe that our Savior, as HIS first act of High Priest. after the order of the Melchizedek, and took the first fruit offering and presented them before God, which are as John describes in the book of the Revelation, the Forty Elder's!! not cherubs, not angels, not celestial being's. ELDER'S!! What think Yhe?
God would not be very kind to raise Saints, just to let them stretch their legs, and then put them back to sleep!

Hi "Truth",
I'm a little confused about your sequence. It appears that you present where a person is DEAD (and possibly in "paradise", not "heaven"), then brought back to LIFE, and then DEAD (and possibly in "paradise", not "heaven"), -- which is MORE than reasonable for those who died after Jesus ascended.

This would comport with testimony given by those who were resuscitated having gone to either hell, or to paradise, -- including my wife's grandmother who was in surgery and saw the time of her "death" from the clock on the wall; that the angel who took her hand said they couldn't ascend until they made another stop, where on the second floor (and she saw the room number) the angel took the hand of a pre-teen boy (as I recall the story); and then all three ascended to a beautiful grassy knoll where Jesus was addressing the throng and asked who would go back and do HIS work. And being missionaries to the Native American Indians she really didn't want to leave but raised her hand. And the next thing she sensed was a nurse monitoring her recovery and told her "that was a close one". To which she replied: "close one my foot, -- I died". The nurse was shocked and asked how she knew, so she explained seeing the time on the wall clock, and the room number and approximate age of the boy. The hospital checked to see if the account of the room number and the boy was correct, and completely validated her account.


Of course there are MANY books written on Life-After-Death experiences, with more or less similar encounters with beings of light, -- or tearing and gnashing of flesh, and personal violations upon entering the gates of hell, and then darkness and loneliness. And in frequent instances the patient doesn't recall the trauma, but the attending physician sees the writhing and cries of agony.

So some are comforted, some are "woken", and some continue their own destructive path.



Please explain more about your "stretch their legs" aspect.
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

And you came to that conclusion even after this.....

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NKJV) ... And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Just a basic reading of that seems to suggest that when the righteous dead are raised, we get caught up with them. ...

Neither passage seems to suggest that the dead are raised and stand before a judgement throne before a rapture occurs.

Rev. 20:7 And when the thousand years are ended, ...
13 ... the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done. ​

Church doctrines aren't always CORRECT, -- and neither are "Prophets". So we must judge according to Scripture, not men. But some men believe EVERYTHING other men say. -- I prefer to believe Scripture.

Bobby Jo