Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

[WPM]

IMO:
1. The two witnesses (Revelation 11:1-14) will be raptured along with all other believers to avoid the bowl judgments.

2. They are Enoch and Elijah.

You are going in circles here. So, where then is the mention of the rapture of the Church in Revelation?

 

[William Barton]

Εκκλησια is those called out/invited. Could be the church, could be a birthday party, it depends upon the context.

 

[William Barton]

You are going in circles here. So, where then is the mention of the rapture of the Church in Revelation?

Revelation 11:12, 14:16.

 

[WPM]

Revelation 11:12, 14:16.

LOL. Your theology is as clear as mud. You have just told us that Revelation 11:12 refers only to Enoch and Elijah, and that it does not refer to the overall Church. So, then I asked you for a text that refers to the overall Church, and you refer me back to the text that is speaking about Enoch and Elijah. LOL. This is ridiculous. Now you are saying it does refer to the Church. Which is it? You then refer me to Revelation 14:16. Are you saying that this is a second rapture of the Church? What then is Revelation 19? Is that a third rapture of the Church? Your theology is so convoluted and contradictory. It simply does not add up.

You still haven't showed me Scripture outside of your confused explanation in Revelation that shows a rapture of the Church followed by any period of tribulation. That is because it doesn't exist in God's holy Word. Can you not just admit that?

 

[William Barton]

LOL
You still haven't showed me Scripture outside of your confused explanation

"shown me" not "showed me"
Participle is used when "have" is attached to verb.

 

[WPM]

"shown me" not "showed me"
Participle is used when "have" is attached to verb.

LOL. You obviously have nothing.

 

[WPM]

Revelation 11:12, 14:16.

LOL. Your theology is as clear as mud. You have just told us that Revelation 11:12 refers only to Enoch and Elijah, and that it does not refer to the overall Church. So, then I asked you for a text that refers to the overall Church, and you refer me back to the text that is speaking about Enoch and Elijah. LOL. This is ridiculous. Now you are saying it does refer to the Church. Which is it? You then refer me to Revelation 14:16. Are you saying that this is a second rapture of the Church? What then is Revelation 19? Is that a third rapture of the Church? Your theology is so convoluted and contradictory. It simply does not add up.

You still haven't showed me Scripture outside of your confused explanation in Revelation that shows a rapture of the Church followed by any period of tribulation. That is because it doesn't exist in God's holy Word. Can you not just admit that?

 

[ewq1938]

Why is Jesus coming IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULAITON sending His angels to gather the elect. Wouldn't Jesus need to come before the tribulation is over and gather the elect in your view of endtimes.

No. He comes after the trib as scripture says.

Your view also has the Church on the earth during the wrath of God. This does not agree with scripture.

You are wrong. The church is raptured before wrath begins.

There are two raptures. One for the Gentiles and one for the 12 tribes across the earth.

No, there is one rapture for anyone who is a Christian regardless of race.

The proof of a second harvest is the 144,000 first fruits of the 12 tribes. There are two folds that become one fold, the great multitude.

There is only one harvest of the saved.

Why is Jesus coming AFTER the tribulation to gather the elect. Shouldn't Jesus come before the tribulation is over and gather the saints. You have Jesus coming for the saints after Armageddon.

No, Armageddon is after the rapture.

You have the Church on the earth during the wrath of God.

Nope.

There are countless reasons why your view does not agree with scripture but you just deny what the scripture says and follow what you want to believe.

No, you are confused about post trib and what the bible teaches.

 

[The Light]

No. He comes after the trib as scripture says.

Yes, He does. He comes immediately after the tribulation at the 6th seal just like the Word says.

You are wrong. The church is raptured before wrath begins.

The is raptured before the great tribulation. You have the Church going through the wrath of God.

No, there is one rapture for anyone who is a Christian regardless of race.

There is a reason that there are 144,000 first fruits from twelve tribes of Isael. When you understand what first fruits are, you will understand what the harvest is.

There is only one harvest of the saved.

Strange how the Word shows two harvests which are two folds.

No, Armageddon is after the rapture.

Please produce the scripture that shows the rapture occurring before Armageddon.

No, you are confused about post trib and what the bible teaches.

Yes, it confuses me why you skip so much scripture because you don't understand how it fits together. It boggles my mind that you think that the wrath of God is 30 minutes of silence in heaven.

 

[PeterAndroz]

No. He comes after the trib as scripture says.




You are wrong. The church is raptured before wrath begins.





No, there is one rapture for anyone who is a Christian regardless of race.




There is only one harvest of the saved.





No, Armageddon is after the rapture.




Nope.




No, you are confused about post trib and what the bible teaches.

""No, there is one rapture for anyone who is a Christian regardless of race.""
Do you believe David, Moses etc are included in 1 Thess 4:16 "" and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"""

 

[ewq1938]

""No, there is one rapture for anyone who is a Christian regardless of race.""
Do you believe David, Moses etc are included in 1 Thess 4:16 "" and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"""

I don't know who specifically by name will be but I do believe OT saints will be given the chance to accept Jesus and/or that it might be automatic so that they are counted as the dead in Christ. They are with Christ now and have been since they died.

 

[ewq1938]

The is raptured before the great tribulation. You have the Church going through the wrath of God.

No. They are raptured BEFORE the wrath of God begins.

Strange how the Word shows two harvests which are two folds.

It shows two harvests, one of the saints and one for the unsaved/wicked.

Please produce the scripture that shows the rapture occurring before Armageddon.

The rapture takes people to the clouds during the second coming and Rev 19 shows Christ descending from the sky to fight at Armageddon. That means the rapture has already take place by the time Christ is seen in Rev 19. This involved multiple scriptures and verses throughout the NT.

Yes, it confuses me why you skip so much scripture because you don't understand how it fits together. It boggles my mind that you think that the wrath of God is 30 minutes of silence in heaven.

You are still confused. The wrath of God is not found in the 7th seal/30 min of silence at all. It's not in the first 6 trumps either. The wrath of God comes at the 7th trump, not sooner, not at any other time.

 

[PeterAndroz]

I don't know who specifically by name will be but I do believe OT saints will be given the chance to accept Jesus and/or that it might be automatic so that they are counted as the dead in Christ. They are with Christ now and have been since they died.

""They are with Christ now and have been since they died.""
Now ? Probably yes, but not sure about before the crucifixion of Christ
..
"""I don't know who specifically...... as the dead in Christ"""
What verses have led you to that belief ?

 

[ewq1938]

""They are with Christ now and have been since they died.""
Now ? Probably yes, but not sure about before the crucifixion of Christ
..
"""I don't know who specifically...... as the dead in Christ"""
What verses have led you to that belief ?

Just a general understanding that a saint is a saint, whether OT or NT. I don't see God sending OT saints to the LOF who weren't a saved Christian when they died. There's likely a verse or two that touch upon this but I don't recall them ATM.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Just a general understanding that a saint is a saint, whether OT or NT. I don't see God sending OT saints to the LOF who weren't a saved Christian when they died. There's likely a verse or two that touch upon this but I don't recall them ATM.

Thx EQ.
Yes, a saint is a saint because they believe/d GOD &/or the teachings of Christ
Were OT saints saved & sealed or even know of the Gospel that Christ Gal 1:11-12 taught to Paul which Paul himself Gal 2:2 had to explain to the 12 ?
""OT saints to the LOF who weren't a saved Christian""
Christian was first used in the NT
Acts 11:26 And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
"""I don't see God sending OT saints to the LOF""
Or any saint :)
..
My point ?
I still believe that the saved in 1 Thess 4:16-17 are ONLY believers saved & sealed by the 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 gospel.

 

[ewq1938]

My point ?
I still believe that the saved in 1 Thess 4:16-17 are ONLY believers saved & sealed by the 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 gospel.

Which resurrection do the OT saints partake of?

Joh_5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Which resurrection do the OT saints partake of?

Joh_5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

WHEN ARE THE OLD TESTAMENT SAINTS RAISED? – The Herald of Hope

heraldofhope.org.au

 

[ewq1938]

WHEN ARE THE OLD TESTAMENT SAINTS RAISED? – The Herald of Hope

heraldofhope.org.au

Hopefully the first one, also called the first resurrection ie: "rise first".

 

[PeterAndroz]

Hopefully the first one, also called the first resurrection ie: "rise first".

What were your thoughts re the whole article ?
ps, I'm not offended if you simply had a quick scroll through it

 

[ewq1938]

What were your thoughts re the whole article ?
ps, I'm not offended if you simply had a quick scroll through it

It wouldn't load the page so you will have to quote whatever part is applicable.