Re Spirit baptism

[mailmandan]

This contradicts his "proof-text". Now what?

Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

 

[DJT_47]

What do you make of this?

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit? (2)

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit? Just to be clear, I do not question whether the believers in Samaria had received the "indwelling" Spirit when they believed. They were missing something else. Acts 8:14-17 NIV When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that...

www.christianityboard.com

I have responded in that thread starting @ #23. And others have responded here foolishly as they always do out of ignorance claiming one scripture trumps or nullifies another proving they don't knowcwhat they're talking about and simply like to blab.

 

[mailmandan]

I have responded in that thread starting @ #23. And others have responded here foolishly as they always do out of ignorance claiming one scripture trumps or nullifies another proving they don't knowcwhat they're talking about and simply like to blab.

It's not about scripture trumps or nullifies other scripture but scripture must harmonize with other scripture or else we have a contradiction and there are no contradictions in God's word.

 

[mailmandan]

The "one flimsy proof-text" is enough since it comes from God's word, penned by one of his inspired writers. It's in plain English and crystal clear.

Acts 2:38

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So, the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

 

[Hobie]

There is only one baptism that places us into the body of Christ and that is Spirit baptism, not water baptism.

Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

Its like marriage, you still have to go through the 'ceremony', cant just go claiming you have been joined then find another at your leisure.

 

[mailmandan]

Its like marriage, you still have to go through the 'ceremony', cant just go claiming you have been joined then find another at your leisure.

A man and a woman become united through their wedding vows and the wedding ring symbolizes this. Just as we become united with Christ through faith and water baptism symbolizes this. Strictly speaking, the husband is united to his wife because of the marriage vows rather than the ring. Yet since the latter is the sign of their union, it is natural to speak of the ring to mean the reality it represents - "with this ring, I thee wed," although the ring is not the actual cause of the change in the marital status, just like water baptism is not the actual cause of our salvation status.

 

[Hobie]

A man and a woman become united through their wedding vows and the wedding ring symbolizes this. Just as we become united with Christ through faith and water baptism symbolizes this. Strictly speaking, the husband is united to his wife because of the marriage vows rather than the ring. Yet since the latter is the sign of their union, it is natural to speak of the ring to mean the reality it represents - "with this ring, I thee wed," although the ring is not the actual cause of the change in the marital status, just like water baptism is not the actual cause of our salvation status.

But it is something Christ says we have to do...
Matthew 3:14-15
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

 

[St. SteVen]

Matthew 3:14-15
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

LOL
That's one of the best examples I have seen to support reasons for NOT using the KJV.
"... Then he suffered him." - LOL ???
I mean, unless you are already REALLY into Shakespeare or something.

 

[Hobie]

LOL
That's one of the best examples I have seen to support reasons for NOT using the KJV.
"... Then he suffered him." - LOL ???
I mean, unless you are already REALLY into Shakespeare or something.

Pick any of them and they all say that, although it seems you only desire for one that shades the truth...

Matthew 3:15 - The Baptism of Jesus

Let it be so now, Jesus replied. It is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness in this way. Then John permitted Him.

biblehub.com

 

[DJT_47]

But it is something Christ says we have to do...
Matthew 3:14-15
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Just to correct the previous poster, a man and a woman become united when they are joined together sexually. Vows and ceremony have nothing at all to do with it in God's eyes.

Gen 38:8-9

8And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
9And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

Gen 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh".

Mat19: 5-6 "And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."

1 Cor: 15-16 "Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

 

[St. SteVen]

Pick any of them and they all say that, although it seems you only desire for one that shades the truth...

Matthew 3:15 - The Baptism of Jesus

Let it be so now, Jesus replied. It is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness in this way. Then John permitted Him.

biblehub.com

No they don't ALL say that.

although it seems you only desire for one that shades the truth...

Have you seen this?

Interesting that the Bible is "the Word of God", unless someone quotes a translation you disagree with.

--- PARODY TIME --- KJO reader: This is what the Word of God says. NIV reader: Let's compare the NIV translation. KJO reader: WHAT! ??? That's a terrible translation! NIV reader: Are you saying it isn't the "Word of God"? KJO reader: The NIV left verses out of the Bible! NIV reader: No, the...

www.christianityboard.com

--- PARODY TIME ---

KJO reader: This is what the Word of God says.
NIV reader: Let's compare the NIV translation.
KJO reader: WHAT! ??? That's a terrible translation!
NIV reader: Are you saying it isn't the "Word of God"?
KJO reader: The NIV left verses out of the Bible!
NIV reader: No, the NIV kept the same verse numbering system
but left out verses that didn't belong there in the first place.
KJO reader: THEY REMOVED VERSES FROM THE BIBLE !!!!
NIV reader: No, that's not what happened.
KJO reader: Yes it is what HAPPENED !!!
NIV reader: Show me one.
KJO reader: Here you go.
NIV reader: My footnote accounts for that.
KJO reader: Accounts for verses removed from the Bible? ???
NIV reader: The footnote says: It does not appear in any New Testament
manuscript prior to the end of the 6th century.
KJO reader: It's NOT the Word of God !!!!
NIV reader: Seriously?

Interesting that the Bible is "the Word of God", unless someone quotes a translation you disagree with.

Do you do that?

 

[DJT_47]

I hear you, loud and clear.

For clarification of the previous post, if you look at the original Greek in the interlinear, it reads "in one Spirit" (en) not "by one Spirit" as is mistranslated in the KJV and others. It does make a difference in proper understanding of 1 Cor 12:13

 

[Hobie]

No they don't ALL say that.

Have you seen this?

Interesting that the Bible is "the Word of God", unless someone quotes a translation you disagree with.

--- PARODY TIME --- KJO reader: This is what the Word of God says. NIV reader: Let's compare the NIV translation. KJO reader: WHAT! ??? That's a terrible translation! NIV reader: Are you saying it isn't the "Word of God"? KJO reader: The NIV left verses out of the Bible! NIV reader: No, the...

www.christianityboard.com

--- PARODY TIME ---

KJO reader: This is what the Word of God says.
NIV reader: Let's compare the NIV translation.
KJO reader: WHAT! ??? That's a terrible translation!
NIV reader: Are you saying it isn't the "Word of God"?
KJO reader: The NIV left verses out of the Bible!
NIV reader: No, the NIV kept the same verse numbering system
but left out verses that didn't belong there in the first place.
KJO reader: THEY REMOVED VERSES FROM THE BIBLE !!!!
NIV reader: No, that's not what happened.
KJO reader: Yes it is what HAPPENED !!!
NIV reader: Show me one.
KJO reader: Here you go.
NIV reader: My footnote accounts for that.
KJO reader: Accounts for verses removed from the Bible? ???
NIV reader: The footnote says: It does not appear in any New Testament
manuscript prior to the end of the 6th century.
KJO reader: It's NOT the Word of God !!!!
NIV reader: Seriously?

Interesting that the Bible is "the Word of God", unless someone quotes a translation you disagree with.

Do you do that?

Notice Youngs Literal Translation...
The Baptism of Jesus

13Then cometh Jesus from Galilee upon the Jordan, unto John to be baptized by him, 14but John was forbidding him, saying, ‘I have need by thee to be baptized — and thou dost come unto me!’ 15But Jesus answering said to him, ‘Suffer now, for thus it is becoming to us to fulfill all righteousness,’ then he doth suffer him.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

For clarification of the previous post, if you look at the original Greek in the interlinear, it reads "in one Spirit" (en) not "by one Spirit" as is mistranslated in the KJV and others. It does make a difference in proper understanding of 1 Cor 12:13

which is the truth

we are baptised IN the spirit (no water involved)

thank you

 

[St. SteVen]

Notice Youngs Literal Translation...
The Baptism of Jesus

13Then cometh Jesus from Galilee upon the Jordan, unto John to be baptized by him, 14but John was forbidding him, saying, ‘I have need by thee to be baptized — and thou dost come unto me!’ 15But Jesus answering said to him, ‘Suffer now, for thus it is becoming to us to fulfill all righteousness,’ then he doth suffer him.

That is still King James language.
Do you seriously think Jesus and John spoke to each other that way?

 

[Behold]

Notice Youngs Literal Translation...
The Baptism of Jesus

13Then cometh Jesus from Galilee upon the Jordan, unto John to be baptized by him,

And Jesus told Him why, and it had nothing to do with "sin" or being "born again".

John the Baptist was preaching 'repent and be dunked".

So, what was Jesus repenting of ???

See, you have to sometimes THINK< vs just believing without thinking, what some water cult told you to believe.

 

[mailmandan]

But it is something Christ says we have to do...
Matthew 3:14-15
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

That was Jesus' response to John the Baptist in regard to John baptizing Jesus. Nothing there about WE must be water baptized or else! - (baptized or condemned)

What did Jesus say in John 3:18? - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Johann]

For clarification of the previous post, if you look at the original Greek in the interlinear, it reads "in one Spirit" (en) not "by one Spirit" as is mistranslated in the KJV and others. It does make a difference in proper understanding of 1 Cor 12:13

1 Corinthians 12:13
Were we all baptized into one body (hēmeis pantes eis hen sōma ebaptisthēmen). First aorist passive indicative of baptizō and so a reference to a definite past event with each of them of different races, nations, classes, when each of them put on the outward badge of service to Christ, the symbol of the inward changes already wrought in them by the Holy Spirit (Gal_3:27; Rom_6:2.).
And were all made to drink of one Spirit (kai pantes hen pneuma epotisthēmen). First aorist passive indicative of potizō, old verb, to give to drink. The accusative hen pneuma is retained in the passive as often with verbs that in the active take two accusatives. The reference is to a definite act in the past, probably to the inward experience of the Holy Spirit symbolized by the act of baptism.
RWP

Made to drink (ἐποτίσθημεν)
The verb means originally to give to drink, from which comes the sense of to water or irrigate. The former is invariably the sense in the gospels and Revelation; the latter in 1Co_3:6-8, and by some here. The reference is to the reception of the Spirit in baptism. Omit into before one Spirit.
MV.

1Co 12:13 AlsoG2532 Conj kai καὶ forG1063 Conj gar γὰρ inG1722 Prep en ἐν oneG1520 Adj-DNS heni ἑνὶ Spirit,G4151 N-DNS Pneumati, Πνεύματι, weG1473 PPro-N1P hēmeis ἡμεῖς allG3956 Adj-NMP pantes πάντες intoG1519 Prep eis εἰς oneG1520 Adj-ANS hen ἓν bodyG4983 N-ANS sōma σῶμα were baptized,G907 G5681 V-AIP-1P ebaptisthēmen, ἐβαπτίσθημεν, whetherG1535 Conj eite εἴτε JewsG2453 Adj-NMP Ioudaioi Ἰουδαῖοι orG1535 Conj eite εἴτε Greeks,G1672 N-NMP Hellēnes, Ἕλληνες, whetherG1535 Conj eite εἴτε slavesG1401 N-NMP douloi δοῦλοι orG1535 Conj eite εἴτε free;G1658 Adj-NMP eleutheroi· ἐλεύθεροι· andG2532 Conj kai καὶ allG3956 Adj-NMP pantes πάντες oneG1520 Adj-ANS hen ἓν SpiritG4151 N-ANS Pneuma Πνεῦμα we were made to drink.G4222 G5681 V-AIP-1P epotisthēmen. ἐποτίσθημεν.

 

[ChristisGod]

1Co 12:13 AlsoG2532 Conj kai καὶ forG1063 Conj gar γὰρ inG1722 Prep en ἐν oneG1520 Adj-DNS heni ἑνὶ Spirit,G4151 N-DNS Pneumati, Πνεύματι, weG1473 PPro-N1P hēmeis ἡμεῖς allG3956 Adj-NMP pantes πάντες intoG1519 Prep eis εἰς oneG1520 Adj-ANS hen ἓν bodyG4983 N-ANS sōma σῶμα were baptized,G907 G5681 V-AIP-1P ebaptisthēmen, ἐβαπτίσθημεν, whetherG1535 Conj eite εἴτε JewsG2453 Adj-NMP Ioudaioi Ἰουδαῖοι orG1535 Conj eite εἴτε Greeks,G1672 N-NMP Hellēnes, Ἕλληνες, whetherG1535 Conj eite εἴτε slavesG1401 N-NMP douloi δοῦλοι orG1535 Conj eite εἴτε free;G1658 Adj-NMP eleutheroi· ἐλεύθεροι· andG2532 Conj kai καὶ allG3956 Adj-NMP pantes πάντες oneG1520 Adj-ANS hen ἓν SpiritG4151 N-ANS Pneuma Πνεῦμα we were made to drink.G4222 G5681 V-AIP-1P epotisthēmen. ἐποτίσθημεν.

Where is this from just curious. Thanks !

 

[David in NJ]

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So, the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

Absolutely

Genesis = Chicken before eggs = Gospel before ritual = Revelation = "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world"

Genesis = "In the beginning God" = Gospel "In the beginning the WORD" = JESUS before all things, HE who created all things

Religion always attempts to reverse/flip-flop the Order/Foundation