Reason for The Crusades explained

[Wrangler]

That’s false.

Oh? Please educate us on all your findings of when Christian killing people is the right thing to do in practice throughout all of history - starting with the Crusades.

 

[Matthias]

Not even a little bit. A non-response reply is not an answer.

Why have you not replied to all of my question?

You post many replies while side stepping the Scriptural and historicial evidence for Christian's pursuing justice in this world an in their time.

1. No comment to buy a sword in Luke 22 (to use for purpose intended; to kill)?
2. No understanding in giving to Caesar what is Caesar’s, such as be drafted into military service and perform other duties, like vote?
3. No following Christ's lead in returning to destroy his enemies as the first order of business?
4. No following Christ's lead in killing all his enemies in the 2nd Death as the ultimate and eternal act of justice?

You can’t possibly have read all that I’ve written.

 

[Matthias]

Oh? Please educate us on all your findings of when Christian killing people is the right thing to do in practice throughout all of history - starting with the Crusades.

View attachment 75862

Read all of my posts.

 

[Wrangler]

Why have you not replied to all of my question?



You can’t possibly have read all that I’ve written.

Exactly. I find most of your questions not responsive replies but rather obvious Appeal to Diversion posts. That is, you're a troll. Not good to feed the troll. This thread is about the reasons FOR the Crusades. Stay on topic, please and thank you.

 

[Wrangler]

Read all of my posts.

Another great example of a non-responsive reply, another non-answer.

 

[Matthias]

Exactly.…

That’s an acknowledgment of partial ignorance.

… I find most of your questions not responsive replies but rather obvious Appeal to Diversion posts. That is, you're a troll. Not good to feed the troll. This thread is about the reasons FOR the Crusades. Stay on topic, please and thank you.

 

[Matthias]

Another great example of a non-responsive reply, another non-answer.

Pointing to your ignorance was, and is, a direct answer.

 

[Wrangler]

Pointing to your ignorance was and is a direct response.

Ad Homenim.

Keep projecting.

 

[Matthias]

Ad Homenim.

Keep projecting.

You confirmed that what I pointed to was correct.

 

[Matthias]

... you're a troll. Not good to feed the troll.

Since you’re convinced that I‘m a troll, why are you doing what you know is not good?

My message to you has been, and continues to be, don’t do what is not good.

If you lack self-control, you should consider placing me on ignore.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

but I will not engage in war against any Nation

It's not a sin for one to serve in the armed forces to defend their nation.

Surely you are not trying to use what your conscience is leading you to do to make the false claim that all that serve in the military are going to hell are ya?

Now He gives new instructions by means of his Son and I follow Jesus instructions of Love of Neighbor and Peace.

If all the Christians would have thought like this back in the 1940s, we're all be speaking German right now.

Sometimes war and the threat of war is necessary for there to be peace. No way around that until Jesus returns.

Which scripture are you referring to?

Really? You don't know God's Word good enough to already know this???

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power

Which scripture are you referring to?

James 2:13
For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

do you have a scripture in mind that explains what you are saying?

We see the NT does NOT say those with weapons are in sin.

Luke 22:36
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Luke 22:36 is a verse where Jesus instructs His disciples to take provisions for their journey, emphasizing that if they do not have a sword, they should sell their cloak to buy one. This reflects a shift in their circumstances, indicating the need for preparedness in facing upcoming challenges including the need for self defense.

If one "lives" by the sword (any deadly weapon) this means the weapon is what they live by as in their faith and trust in weapons comes before the Lord which of course is idolatry. Trust the Lord first and foremost.

If it's a sin to have a deadly weapon then you are accusing Jesus of committing sin when He told them to get a sword the second time He sent His disciples out. (Luke 22:36). Accusing Jesus of sinful behavior ends badly.

And you would be saying Romans 13 is advocating sin for the "servant of God" who bares the sword

Romans 13:4
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Don't be one of those that twist scripture by following the baby killing liberal perverts are not being led by the Holy Spirit of Jesus.

for me doing what God has appointed me to do - in being ready to kill people just like Christ?

You seem a little too trigger happy over there.
Maybe the authorities in your area need to keep an eye on you!

Proverbs 11:1 states, "A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight."

One being led of the Lord would have weapons, but not go around talking so gleefully about killing people.

It's only in extreme circumstances that a Christian would think of killing someone and only in self defense so Christians aren't going around joyously talking about killing people.

It's not smart tactically to let people know you are armed. It spoils the element of surprise which is critical for successful self defense.

Your posts have been reported. Very inappropriate.

I reported someone for using the "F" word and nothing was done about it.

 

[Matthias]

”You are not a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.”

“It should not be taught to anyone” - I’m quoting anonymously a Christian member of the forum who commented publicly about the highlighted teaching in another thread @Wrangler.

P.S.

That member isn’t someone whom you would consider to be a troll, and I didn’t mention the teaching came from you.

 

[Nancy]

It's not a sin for one to serve in the armed forces to defend their nation.

Surely you are not trying to use what your conscience is leading you to do to make the false claim that all that serve in the military are going to hell are ya?




If all the Christians would have thought like this back in the 1940s, we're all be speaking German right now.

Sometimes war and the threat of war is necessary for there to be peace. No way around that until Jesus returns.




Really? You don't know God's Word good enough to already know this???

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power




James 2:13
For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.





We see the NT does NOT say those with weapons are in sin.

Luke 22:36
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Luke 22:36 is a verse where Jesus instructs His disciples to take provisions for their journey, emphasizing that if they do not have a sword, they should sell their cloak to buy one. This reflects a shift in their circumstances, indicating the need for preparedness in facing upcoming challenges including the need for self defense.

If one "lives" by the sword (any deadly weapon) this means the weapon is what they live by as in their faith and trust in weapons comes before the Lord which of course is idolatry. Trust the Lord first and foremost.

If it's a sin to have a deadly weapon then you are accusing Jesus of committing sin when He told them to get a sword the second time He sent His disciples out. (Luke 22:36). Accusing Jesus of sinful behavior ends badly.

And you would be saying Romans 13 is advocating sin for the "servant of God" who bares the sword

Romans 13:4
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Don't be one of those that twist scripture by following the baby killing liberal perverts are not being led by the Holy Spirit of Jesus.




You seem a little too trigger happy over there.
Maybe the authorities in your area need to keep an eye on you!

Proverbs 11:1 states, "A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight."

One being led of the Lord would have weapons, but not go around talking so gleefully about killing people.

It's only in extreme circumstances that a Christian would think of killing someone and only in self defense so Christians aren't going around joyously talking about killing people.

It's not smart tactically to let people know you are armed. It spoils the element of surprise which is critical for successful self defense.




I reported someone for using the "F" word and nothing was done about it.

That wasn't meant for you BB...the person was already banned by a mod or admin. Dunno how you were seen as the offender...you were not even mentioned.

 

[Matthias]

I quoted this commentary to support what I see in scripture. No one has come forward to explain why what the trinitarian (Lutheran) commentator and I see here is mistaken. I would appreciate it if someone who thinks it is mistaken would explain their objection for me.

Additional support from trinitarian commentary for my understanding of scripture.

“The ‘healing of the nations’ is further explained by 22:3. First, ‘there will no longer be any curse.’ The phrase is taken from Zech. 14:11 and applied to the eternal new order in which it finds its final attainment. Although for ‘curse,’ the LXX of Zechariah has anathema and Revelation has katathema, both are legitimate renderings of the Hebrew herem (cf., possibly, Isa. 34:1-2). In the OT herem typically referred to people being put under a ban for complete destruction because of sin (cf. the Canaanites in the Hexateuch). Likely echoed also is the curse in the first Eden, which will be removed here.”

(Commentary on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament, p. 1154)

This is what the Crusaders did. Those who are giving their approval of the Crusades are perpetuating the curse.

And if you refuse to imitate the Crusaders? The “You are not a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill” perversion of the requirements for becoming / being a follower of Jesus is dropped on you, like an artillery shell falling from the sky.

 

[Matthias]

“The ban will be lifted.”

(Revelation 22:3a, Jerusalem Bible)

Remember what the two Commentaries I quoted said about the ban? The curse of war will be lifted.

The nations of the world are still under the curse. The obedient followers of Jesus aren’t under the curse - because they aren’t “armed, ready to kill.” They aren’t answering Caesar’s call to kill his enemies. -> They’re living like Jesus. They’re living like Paul. They’re living like all of the apostles. They’re living like the earliest followers of Jesus lived, in nations under the curse.

Come out of the nations. Be free of the curse in the lord Jesus Messiah.

 

[JustMe]

“The ban will be lifted.”

(Revelation 22:3a, Jerusalem Bible)

Remember what the two Commentaries I quoted said about the ban? The curse of war will be lifted.

The nations of the world are still under the curse. The obedient followers of Jesus aren’t under the curse - because they aren’t “armed, ready to kill.” They aren’t answering Caesar’s call to kill his enemies. -> They’re living like Jesus. They’re living like Paul. They’re living like all of the apostles. They’re living like the earliest followers of Jesus lived, in nations under the curse.

Come out of the nations. Be free of the curse in the lord Jesus Messiah.

The curse of Adam and his nature affecting all humanity today in various degrees, will ultimately come to an end and be fully understood by those of God living anew in the fulfilled Kingdom. At that point, there will be no necessity to stay alert or prepare to protect oneself and family from wicked individuals intending harm. Until then, however, we must remain prepared to confront evil at our doorsteps, despite our love for all people.

 

[Matthias]

The curse of Adam and his nature affecting all humanity today in various degrees, will ultimately come to an end and be fully understood by those of God living anew in the fulfilled Kingdom. At that point, there will be no necessity to stay alert or prepare to protect oneself and family from wicked individuals intending harm. Until then, however, we must remain prepared to confront evil at our doorsteps, despite our love for all people.

Remain prepared to confront evil at our doorsteps and obey, be faithful to the teaching “We don’t use the weapons of the world” (Paul).

 

[Matthias]

Bart Ehrman asks, “Is it even possible to follow Jesus’ teaching?”

Someone replies to him, “Unless u believe the world is about to end, forget Jesus’ teachings on how to live your life. His teachings r not practical for an on-going world and Jesus never intended them to be.”

Is It Even Possible to Follow Jesus' Teaching? What Do You Think? - The Bart Ehrman Blog

Here is a post where I raise a fundamental question that I find very hard to answer. I will not be able to respond to all your reflections, but I will read them all and am very eager to see what you have to say. In connection with my next book I’ve been reading a lot of writings by the church...

ehrmanblog.org

Who here is riding that train?

”Don’t obey the teachings of Jesus” -> is not the message of Jesus and the apostles.

 

[JustMe]

Remain prepared to confront evil at our doorsteps and obey, be faithful to the teaching “We don’t use the weapons of the world” (Paul).

Naturally, as believers, we are meant to comprehend and evaluate the threat, and to discern, using non-physical weapons (not from this world) in a possible spiritual confrontation, since all aggression, conflict, and war have a spiritual origin. I consistently apply this in the background to PREVENT physical, worldly incidents through prayer, scripture, and my faith as the foundation, along with love and hope for peace. This approach is valuable; however, when someone with malicious intent points a worldly weapon at me or my property—whether a missile launcher (which coyote often does...), a gun, rifle, or even a large stick—I must be ready to defend my family and possessions, both now and in the future.

You understand that worldly weapons represent only one aspect. There are also devices that provoke and manipulate towards warfare—these worldly tactics can lead to physical conflict on national, community, neighborly, or personal levels. Such strategies are typically used before a real crisis erupts, including coercion, manipulation, blackmail, boycotts, deprivation of food and finances, martial law, and many other harmful means to escalate tensions toward war or a major confrontation.

Paul's message is not about avoiding protection altogether but emphasizes relying on divine power rather than human methods for spiritual triumph.

Paul’s approach remains the preferred way to uphold peace in this imperfect world we inhabit.

 

[Matthias]

Naturally, as believers, we are meant to comprehend and evaluate the threat, and to discern, using non-physical weapons (not from this world) in a possible spiritual confrontation, since all aggression, conflict, and war have a spiritual origin. I consistently apply this in the background to PREVENT physical, worldly incidents through prayer, scripture, and my faith as the foundation, along with love and hope for peace. This approach is valuable; however, when someone with malicious intent points a worldly weapon at me or my property—whether a missile launcher (which coyote often does...), a gun, rifle, or even a large stick—I must be ready to defend my family and possessions, both now and in the future.

You understand that worldly weapons represent only one aspect. There are also devices that provoke and manipulate towards warfare—these worldly tactics can lead to physical conflict on national, community, neighborly, or personal levels. Such strategies are typically used before a real crisis erupts, including coercion, manipulation, blackmail, boycotts, deprivation of food and finances, martial law, and many other harmful means to escalate tensions toward war or a major confrontation.

Paul's message is not about avoiding protection altogether but emphasizes relying on divine power rather than human methods for spiritual triumph.

Paul’s approach remains the preferred way to uphold peace in this imperfect world we inhabit.

Jesus, Paul, the other apostles, the earliest Christians, didn’t use the sword to kill their enemies.

“Put away your sword” - and they did. The world didn’t. The world considered them as sheep to the slaughter. It still does.