Reason for The Crusades explained

[Wrangler]

Only to have you say again that I haven’t?

Playing the victim.

 

[Matthias]

LOL

I"ve asked you dozens of times to explain what the reasons FOR the Crusades are. You passed every time.

I’ve done it and acknowledged that others here have done it as well. The reasons have been stated many times in this thread.

Suddenly, you're an expert on what they are NOT.

No. I’ve known for a very long time what they are not. Of greater importance to my readers is that I’ve quoted and provided links to those who are experts in that particular field.

You're just not a serious human being.

A human being who isn’t serious wouldn’t post on the subject as I’m posting.

Pacifists tend not to be but cowards.

They tend to be braver than people like you. They face their enemies without the weapons of the world.

 

[Matthias]

Playing the victim.

You‘ve victimized not only me but all who don’t follow your teaching. I’m still standing.

 

[Matthias]

Some of what God does is evil. Isaiah 45:7. I noticed you had no reply to that.

I‘ve already replied to it elsewhere on the forum. All you, or anyone else who is interested, need to do is read my posts.

You despise justice so much, you couch it as evil. Unbelievable.

I don’t despise justice. What the Crusaders did was evil.

 

[JustMe]

You‘ve victimized not only me but all who don’t follow your teaching. I’m still standing.

Like the pink rabbit that keeps on going and going and going and going.....

 

[Matthias]

Did the Crusaders offer safety to their enemies if they would surrender and then slaughtered them when they did?

AI came back with this overview -

“Yes, Crusaders often offered terms of surrender that promised safety, but then broke these promises, especially during the chaotic First Crusade (like at Jerusalem in 1099), though sometimes promises were kept, or negotiated, but violations were common, reflecting brutal medieval siege warfare where mercy was rare and incentives for surrender low if enemies fought harder when trapped.”

 

[Matthias]

Like the pink rabbit that keeps on going and going and going and going.....

The combination of being energized against evil and patient with my audience. May they become energized against evil too.

 

[Matthias]

What the Crusaders did was evil.

Read for yourselves what the Crusaders did.

I won’t ever call what they did good. “Woe to those who call evil good” (Isaiah 5:20).

Woe to you, @Wrangler.

 

[Matthias]

“The crusades have provided some of the most frequent arguments against the Christian faith. Some Islamic terrorists even claim their terrorist attacks as revenge for what Christians did in the crusades. So, what were the crusades and why are they viewed as such a big problem for the Christian faith?

First of all, the crusades should not be referred to as the ‘Christian crusades.’ Most of the people involved in the crusades were not truly Christians, even though they claimed to be. The name of Christ was abused, misused, and blasphemed by the actions of many of the crusaders. Second, the crusades took place from approximately A.D. 1095 to 1230. Should the unbiblical actions of supposed Christians hundreds of years ago still be held against Christianity today?

Third, not that this is an adequate excuse, but Christianity is not the only religion with a violent past. In actuality, the crusades were responses to Muslim invasions on what was once land occupied primarily by Christians. From approximately A.D. 300 to 900, the land of Israel, Jordan, Egypt, Syria, and Turkey was inhabited primarily by Christians. Once Islam became powerful, Muslims invaded these lands and brutally oppressed, enslaved, deported, and even murdered the Christians living in those lands. In response, the Roman Catholic Church and ‘Christian’ kings / emperors from Europe ordered the crusades to reclaim the land Muslims had taken. The actions that many so-called Christians took in the crusades were still deplorable. There is no biblical justification for conquering lands, murdering civilians, and destroying cities in the name of Jesus Christ. At the same time, Islam is not a religion that can speak from a position of innocence in these matters.

To summarize briefly, the crusades were attempts in the 11th through the 13th centuries A.D. to reclaim land in the Middle East that had been conquered by Muslims. The crusades were brutal and evil. Many people were forced to ‘convert’ to Christianity. If they refused, they were put to death. The idea of conquering a land through war and violence in the name if Christ is completely unbiblical. Many of the actions taken by the crusades were completely antithetical to everything Christian faith stands for.

How can we respond when, as a result of the crusades, the Christian faith is attacked by atheists, agnostics, skeptics, and those of other religions? We can respond in the following ways: 1) Do you want to be held accountable for the actions of people who lived 900+ years ago? 2) Do you want to be held accountable for the actions of everyone who claims to represent your faith? Trying to blame all of Christianity for the crusades is analogous to blaming all Muslims for Islamic terrorism.”

What were the Christian crusades? | GotQuestions.org

What were the Christian crusades? Why did Christian invade the Middle East during the Middle Ages? Were the crusaders even really Christians?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Matthias]

What do indulgences have to do with the Crusades? Plenty, it turns out.

Library : The Historical Origin of Indulgences

The Historical Origin of Indulgences Reflection on the Bull Incarnationis Mysterium.

www.catholicculture.org

 

[JustMe]

No, the Crusades do not evoke any sense of glorious 'Christian' times for me when they are discussed. Both the Europeans and the Middle Eastern fighters or combatants exposed the profound depths of human depravity and how far humanity has declined.

Even now, I do not support most modern wars, whether large or small. They have never been truly defensive or justifiable.

Some might argue about the threat of Communism in the 20th century, for example. This was a product of evil and deception orchestrated by both Western and Eastern powers from the start, involving a small elite group. Few people are aware of this. Western nations were not directly threatened, as hidden agreements ensured the outcome and the extent of its influence.

Poland was the only country deliberately led to slaughter. The other malevolent powers from East and West benefited and profited from it—a corrupt venture at the expense of innocent lives.

Consider WWII, or even the period before it; Poland was the closest country to the Communist threat. It fought desperately without any help from the West, by design.

Their conflict with the Soviets was justified and defensive, lasting much longer than most realize or care to acknowledge. Many do not know that Poland singlehandedly resisted the Communist threat between the wars of 1914–18 and 1939–1945. Their war was defensive and justifiable. Yes, they temporarily gained territory in northwest Ukraine for about 20 years.

Therefore, I believe most wars are manipulated by wealthy elites and influential figures. And those calling themselves Christian of these evil groups, are not truly Christian in spirit, only in name and empty claims. They engineer wars for personal and national gain, which are unjustified and aggressive. This aspect of human nature will not change until this elitist, arrogant world of evil is brought to its knees in utter despair and desperation.

 

[Wrangler]

I’ve done it and acknowledged that others here have done it as well. The reasons have been stated many times in this thread.

No. You have not done it. This was your response the very very time I asked you to stick to the OP.

 

[Wrangler]

I owe nothing to the Crusaders; everything to God and Messiah.

This is what every pacifist and overly spiritualized victim falsely proclaims; they derive no benefit from the very world view that allows them to live and live the lifestyle they enjoy. A world view antithetical to their pacifist world view. I know I humbly owe much to many:

1. My parents for giving me life.
2. My neighbors for being there in times of trouble and good times too.
3. My teachers for straightening out my crooked thinking and pushing back the shadows of darkness in the recesses of my mind.
4. My employers who put a roof over my head and food on my table.
5. The thin blue line who keeps common criminals at bay. You call them every name in the book until you call them for help.

6. There is a nearby restaurant that promotes its patriotism by saying it is not by the teacher that we keep our freedom. All gave some. Some gave all. To them, I owe the most in this material world as do my parents before me.

7. And last but not least is my God and Messiah.

Your one claim to my 7 confessions show the difference with one like me who has a soul-spirit balance.

 

[Matthias]

This is what every pacifist and overly spiritualized victim falsely proclaims; they derive no benefit from the very world view that allows them to live and live the lifestyle they enjoy. A world view antithetical to their pacifist world view. I know I humbly owe much to many:

1. My parents for giving me life.
2. My neighbors for being there in times of trouble and good times too.
3. My teachers for straightening out my crooked thinking and pushing back the shadows of darkness in the recesses of my mind.
4. My employers who put a roof over my head and food on my table.
5. The thin blue line who keeps common criminals at bay. You call them every name in the book until you call them for help.

6. There is a nearby restaurant that promotes its patriotism by saying it is not by the teacher that we keep our freedom. All gave some. Some gave all. To them, I owe the most in this material world as do my parents before me.

7. And last but not least is my God and Messiah.

Your one claim to my 7 confessions show the difference with one like me who has a soul-spirit balance.

Christian nationalism. You’ll kill followers of Jesus for it.

 

[Matthias]

No. You have not done it. This was your response the very very time I asked you to stick to the OP.

Not to embarrass you but, I did it again this morning.

 

[Wrangler]

Not to embarrass you but, I did it again this morning.

Your embarrassing yourself. You keep saying you did something related to soulful needs but never actually do it. Again, the theoretical verses practical application.

In theory pacifist ideology is morally superior; in practice, those who practice it owe their lives to those who reject such foolishness. Christ himself said God would send 12 legions of angels in his physical defense. These are soulful words. IF Christ was a pacifist you pretend to model, he never would assert such a position.

 

[Wrangler]

Read for yourselves what the Crusaders did.

I won’t ever call what they did good. “Woe to those who call evil good” (Isaiah 5:20).

Woe to you, @Wrangler.

Justice is good - and commanded we do by God. Micah 6:8.

Given centuries of Islamic Jihad against Christian Europe were our brothers and sisters were slaughtered, raped, enslaved, what does justice look like in your pacifist eyes?

 

[Matthias]

1. My parents for giving me life.
2. My neighbors for being there in times of trouble and good times too.
3. My teachers for straightening out my crooked thinking and pushing back the shadows of darkness in the recesses of my mind.
4. My employers who put a roof over my head and food on my table.

To say or suggest that those who don’t support your ”You are not a follower of Jesus unless you’re armed, ready to kill“ false teaching fail to recognize, acknowledge and appreciate these benefits is just another attempt by you to belittle conscientious objectors.

1. The thin blue line who keeps common criminals at bay. You call them every name in the book until you call them for help.

I don’t.

6. There is a nearby restaurant that promotes its patriotism by saying it is not by the teacher that we keep our freedom. All gave some. Some gave all. To them, I owe the most in this material world as do my parents before me.

Jesus had something to say about gaining the whole world and losing your life.

7. And last but not least is my God and Messiah.

Your one claim to my 7 confessions show the difference with one like me who has a soul-spirit balance.

 

[Matthias]

Your embarrassing yourself.

I tried not to embarrass you.

You keep saying you did something related to soulful needs but never actually do it. Again, the theoretical verses practical application.

You didn’t even have to go back more than a few posts to find it.

In theory pacifist ideology is morally superior; in practice, those who practice it owe their lives to those who reject such foolishness.

It is morally superior for a follower of Jesus not to kill the brothers and sisters of the Messiah.

Christ himself said God would send 12 legions of angels in his physical defense. These are soulful words. IF Christ was a pacifist you pretend to model, he never would assert such a position.

God is able to protect and defend his people without them killing their enemies.

 

[Wrangler]

“The crusades have provided some of the most frequent arguments against the Christian faith.

And here is where we must refute these arguments. Just because an argument is frequent doesn't make it valid. Christian apologists need to embrace the soulful needs of God's children, period. Not shy away from it. Again I ask, given centuries of Islamic Jihad against Christian Europe were our brothers and sisters were slaughtered, raped, enslaved and conquered, what does justice look like?

Hint: Justice is not one side getting away with a million atrocities and the other side commits one but is condemned for eternity for it.

It's so funny that you continue to demonstrate a complete inability to have a conversation; you just ignore the questions I ask and points I make on point of the OP. All you do is deflect.