Reason for The Crusades explained

[Matthias]

1. In a 21st-century democracy, who is "the government"?

The elected officials and persons in their employment.

2. In any form of government, who executes government policy?

Heads of the government and government employees.

 

[Matthias]

At a Bible Study about 30 years ago, an old pastor of mine told this story: Back when he was a much younger pastor during the Vietnam war, he met a friend who was an Army recruiter over coffee one day.

"Preacher, you Christians don't know what you believe!", the recruiter started out.

"What do you mean, Bill?", Pastor W. responded.

"Half of your young people are parading outside the recruiting office protesting the war. The other half are inside enlisting!"

"Well, Bill, God calls some to defend those who cannot defend themselves. And God calls some to be peacemakers."

Now you guys, you do what you're called to do.

No follower of Jesus in one nation is called to kill followers of Jesus in another nation in war.

”You are not a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.”

That’s the voice of the devil, not the voice of Jesus.

 

[Lambano]

The elected officials and persons in their employment.



Heads of the government and government employees.

All of whom may or may not be Christians.

 

[Lambano]

No follower of Jesus in one nation is called to kill followers of Jesus in another nation in war.

Be careful in judging what God may or may not call another person to do.

 

[Matthias]

All of whom may or may not be Christians.

Yes. I was a government employee and I was ordered (on a couple of occasions) to do things which would, if had done it, have killed and injured innocent citizens. In my shoes, what would you have done?

 

[Matthias]

Be careful in judging what God may or may not call another person to do.

God has not called followers of Jesus to kill one another. We can be certain of that.

 

[Lambano]

God has not called followers of Jesus to kill one another.

But killing Muslims is okay, right?

 

[Matthias]

But killing Muslims is okay, right?

No. Followers of Jesus are to love their enemies, not kill them.

How do you preach the gospel to a Muslim?

 

[Matthias]

Yes. I was a government employee and I was ordered (on a couple of occasions) to do things which would, if had done it, have killed and injured innocent citizens. In my shoes, what would you have done?

If it eases your conscience any @Lambano, the government officials who demanded it were all Christians.

 

[Lambano]

It‘s the governments role to protect its citizens. It wasn’t a hard question until the church merged with the state in the 4th century.

I have known Christians who were called into law enforcement. And I have met at least one who had to drop the hammer on a perp to protect innocent life. He didn't want to talk about it.

My son served in Bosnia, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and he had to take life also. Messed his head up pretty bad. It happens.

How is failing through inaction to protect innocent life any different from taking it? Wanting government protection for citizens without being willing to get our own hands bloody is just outsourcing our violence.

 

[Matthias]

I have known Christians who were called into law enforcement. And I have met at least one who had to drop the hammer on a perp to protect innocent life. He didn't want to talk about it.

My son served in Bosnia, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and he had to take life also. Messed his head up pretty bad. It happens.

Wanting government protection for citizens without being willing to get our own hands bloody is just outsourcing our violence.

Paul didn’t outsource his and the disciples’ violence.

 

[Lambano]

How is failing to protect innocent life any different than taking it?

 

[Matthias]

How is failing to protect innocent life any different than taking it?

The government is obligated to protect the innocent lives of its citizens.

Would you kill followers of Jesus if the government ordered you to?

 

[Lambano]

Paul didn’t outsource his and the disciples’ violence.

He accepted protection from the Roman legions guarding the temple in Acts 21-23. All of which was enforced by the threat of violence.

 

[Lambano]

The government is obligated to protect the innocent lives of its citizens.

Which is enforced by violence or the threat thereof.

 

[Matthias]

He accepted protection from the Roman legions guarding the temple in Acts 21-23. All of which was enforced by the threat of violence.

Yes.

”You are not a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.”

Why didn’t use his weapons and do it himself?

 

[Lambano]

Why didn’t use his weapons and do it himself?

Outsourcing your violence is cleaner.

 

[Matthias]

Which is enforced by violence or the threat thereof.

That’s right.

 

[Matthias]

Outsourcing your violence is cleaner.

Would you say then that the apostles and the earliest Christians up until 313 - though armed, ready to kill - outsourced their violence?

 

[Lambano]

Would you say then that the apostles and the earliest Christians up until 313 outsourced their violence?

Did they have legal protections or protection from invading armies?