Reasons why the Jehovah’s Witness religion is false (Despite my love for them as human beings)

[Aunty Jane]

Maybe I should get one of those fancy carts and stand around waiting for someone to walk by.

You’d be surprised at how many people actually stop and chat....especially now when things are looking grim on the world scene. People are concerned and there is no light at the end of the tunnel for them, that isn’t a train.....

At least we are out there....and we are still knocking on doors......where are you?
Nice deflection BTW....

 

[Ritajanice]

For some reason they don’t come round here anymore, I live in the U.K., I’ve had a few short discussions with them in the far distant past.

Who taught them this false doctrine?

They were very pleasant though, they weren’t rude because I told them that their doctrine was manmade and false...I too wasn’t rude..they tried to give me a watchtower book...no thank you I said..very politely.

There was no force from them or me to believe what the other believed.

 

[Berean]

At least we are out there....and we are still knocking on doors......where are you?

I'm right here sharing the Good News. I've reach more people online than standing on a corner

 

[Berean]

We will all stand before the same judge. Won’t that be interesting? (Matt 7:21-23)

And won't you be surprised to find who's standing next to you

 

[Berean]

Jesus made a special covenant with the little flock only. It occurred at the Lords evening meal( Luke 22)-- And at verses 29-30 its a covenant only to those who will sit on thrones( to partake of the emblems)= the little flock, numbered-144,000 bought from the earth( Rev 14:3) The great crowd will not be sitting on thrones, they will remain on earth. Psalm 37:29, Matt 5:5) Prov 2:21-22 assures they are not leaving this earth.

True, but this is not THE New Covenant.

The unworthy to partake Paul mentions = the great crowd-these are the only other ones who will be saved. 1Cor 11:27)
Blind guides tell all to partake.

Where do the Scripture say they were "unworthy to partake"?

 

[Aunty Jane]

I'm right here sharing the Good News. I've reach more people online than standing on a corner

What is the good news? How do you know that you have “reached” anyone? That is the beauty of face to face witnessing….you get to see the person in real life and interact with them as a real person. Body language and tone of voice are useful when discussing touchy subjects and conversations flow without interruption and time zone differences.
Internet witnessing is relatively new compared to the form taken by God’s servants down through time…..we have only recently come onboard with the internet.…and today it is booming….the requests for online Bible studies are unprecedented. More people chat on street corners that you might imagine….we don’t force ourselves on any one, we are patient and wait for the right person to come along. The genuine seekers do not judge as quickly as those who are happy in the disunited churches of Christendom.

And won't you be surprised to find who's standing next to you

Perhaps, but it will not be those who have no idea what “the good news of the kingdom” is….(Matt 24:14)…we are commanded to preach to others about it. (Matt 28:19-20) You cannot preach about something you know nothing about….
We have been active in this work for over 100 years……not too many people have never heard of Jehovah’s Witnesses……even if they hate us….they still know who we are, and what we are known for in just about every nation on earth.

 

[Berean]

What is the good news? How do you know that you have “reached” anyone? That is the beauty of face to face witnessing….you get to see the person in real life and interact with them as a real person. Body language and tone of voice are useful when discussing touchy subjects and conversations flow without interruption and time zone differences.

I may ask you the same question, since your organization has altered the "good news" so many times in the last 100 years. What was taught 20, 10, even 5 years ago is no longer considered Truth, so let me ask you the same question Pilate asked ... WHAT IS TRUTH?

You've lost sight of the real purpose of this Gospel age; viz., to "preach this gospel of the Kingdom in all the world for a witness to all nations," and to aid in the calling and preparing of a "little flock" to constitute (with the Lord) that Millennial Kingdom which shall then bless all the families of the earth. (Matt. 24:14; Acts 15:14-17)

Internet witnessing is relatively new compared to the form taken by God’s servants down through time…..we have only recently come onboard with the internet.…and today it is booming….the requests for online Bible studies are unprecedented. More people chat on street corners that you might imagine….we don’t force ourselves on any one, we are patient and wait for the right person to come along. The genuine seekers do not judge as quickly as those who are happy in the disunited churches of Christendom.

And your point is? You publish very little these days, a few tracts and brochures. Everything is on tablets, which can be altered at the whim without anyone noticing. You just hand out a calling card advertising JW.ORG

Perhaps, but it will not be those who have no idea what “the good news of the kingdom” is….(Matt 24:14)…we are commanded to preach to others about it. (Matt 28:19-20) You cannot preach about something you know nothing about….

"Join us or die" that's not Good News, although it's better than the alternative that Christendom offers of burning forever in hellfire.

We have been active in this work for over 100 years……not too many people have never heard of Jehovah’s Witnesses……even if they hate us….they still know who we are, and what we are known for in just about every nation on earth.

I've heard of the Pope too, but that doesn't mean I want to follow the Catholic Church and they've been at it for nearly 2,000 years.

 

[Keiw]

True, but this is not THE New Covenant.

Where do the Scripture say they were "unworthy to partake"?

The new covenant for all is love. That was a special covenant to those who will sit on thrones= the bride of Christ= the anointed little flock= 144,000 bought from the earth.

 

[Aunty Jane]

You've lost sight of the real purpose of this Gospel age; viz., to "preach this gospel of the Kingdom in all the world for a witness to all nations," and to aid in the calling and preparing of a "little flock" to constitute (with the Lord) that Millennial Kingdom which shall then bless all the families of the earth. (Matt. 24:14; Acts 15:14-17)

You are almost acrobatic when it comes to dodging direct questions…..I asked you what “the good news of the kingdom” is…..this response is a another deflection, showing that you also have no idea what the good news (gospel) is, with scriptural backing….in any clear statement.

The “little flock” are already chosen, with very few on earth now as we approach “the end” that Jesus spoke about. (Matt 24:14) It seems that those “missing in action” concerning the assignment given by Jesus before his departure, has fallen on deaf ears. Jesus said he would be “with” his disciples in this work that has a global scope…”this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.”
Who are out there obeying Jesus command in Matt 28:19-20?

Jesus said “I will be with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things”….Who then is Jesus backing? Who are out seeking the “lost sheep” in all practical ways, as Jesus commanded his disciples to do? Do you see anyone else?

As the devil organized his system so that not many are actually at home during the day (out either earning a living or maintaining a lifestyle) we adapted to take the word to where people are…..hence you will see us in street witnessing hoping to help interested ones to come to an accurate knowledge of the truth. The internet is another adaptation. In a world where trust is disappearing along with love of neighbor, we understand that many are not confident to open their doors to strangers anymore, but we still keep trying and people are still streaming into our ranks, disgusted and disappointed with the failures of their own churches to support them, especially spiritually.

When Jesus’ original disciples were arrested and forbidden to speak about Jesus, they did not shrink back in fear of their opposers….
”So they went out from before the Sanʹhe·drin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy to be dishonored in behalf of his name. 42 And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus.” (Acts 5:41-42)

What did Paul say about this assignment?
”slaving for the Lord with all humility and with tears and trials that befell me by the plots of the Jews, 20 while I did not hold back from telling you any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching you publicly and from house to house. 21 But I thoroughly bore witness both to Jews and to Greeks about repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus.” (Acts 20: 19-21)

It is not a work that humans can accomplish on their own, without the backing that Jesus promised…..Christendom does not preach “the good news of the kingdom” because they have no real idea of what it is. Even those who claim to be “born again” have no knowledge of it, and cannot explain it in simple terms because it’s beautiful simplicity has been lost in the muddle of conflicting doctrines and the notion that all must go to heaven. That was never God’s purpose.

And your point is? You publish very little these days, a few tracts and brochures. Everything is on tablets, which can be altered at the whim without anyone noticing. You just hand out a calling card advertising JW.ORG

My point is that true servants of Jehovah, who are genuine disciples of Jesus Christ, are not an obscure group that no one has ever heard of…..they are out there, visible, different, and completely separated from the disunited rabble that Christendom has proven to be for centuries.

According to Daniel, they were to become a visible force in “the time of the end” and they would be distinguishable by their conduct and beliefs, in contrast to Christendom….this is the time for the separating of the “sheep from the goats”.
“Abundant knowledge“ was to become available at this time (Daniel 12:4; 9-10) and would be dispensed by one group who would be like the first Christians were to the Jews…..a distinct group with beliefs unlike the religion that Judaism had become over the centuries alienated from the true God by the adoption of man-made traditions and practices that God rejected. (Matt 24:45; Matt 15:7-9) There is just one “faithful and discreet slave” appointed by Jesus to “feed” his entire household of fellow slaves.

Join us or die" that's not Good News, although it's better than the alternative that Christendom offers of burning forever in hellfire.

“Join us or die?“…that Is a ridiculous statement, given the fact that Jesus himself proclaimed that only those who accepted the truth could be saved. Who is it that goes into “the lake of fire” ? (Gehenna…is not a literal place but symbolic of eternal death) According to Jesus, it is those who reject him as “the son of God” and who teach things he never taught as though they were indisputable truth. They never were, but who does their homework to “make sure of the more important things”?

Phil 1:9-10…
”And this is what I continue praying, that your love may abound still more and more with accurate knowledge and full discernment; 10 that you may make sure of the more important things, so that you may be flawless and not stumbling others up to the day of Christ”.

Progressive understanding was always how God revealed his truth...from Genesis to Revelation. God’s servants are given what they need to know, when they need to know it….

Who is doing the stumbling? Who has been stumbling mankind regarding worship, all over the world since creation? The devil is an expert at perverting the truth and making lies seem like gospel truth. How confident are we that the great deceiver hasn’t stumbled us without us even being aware of it?
According to Jesus, we will be the last to know. (Matt 7:21-23)

I've heard of the Pope too, but that doesn't mean I want to follow the Catholic Church and they've been at it for nearly 2,000 years.

Who has heard of your group? Without a contrast who could make a comparison?
The first Christians were a stark contrast to the practicers of Judaism, and the “sheep” will be a stark contrast to the “goats”, as the “wheat” are a stark contrast to the “weeds”.

It’s not the similarity that will identify the true disciples of Christ, or how much they agree on their few foundational doctrines, producing a very non-cohesive global organization who all claim to be Christians, but who cannot agree on much else. (1 Cor 1:10) But it is in their dissimilarity to the majority, and the fact that they are out there doing what Christ commanded, known, visibly different, and hated and persecuted for it, just like the first Christians were, mainly by those who claim to worship the same God. (John 15:18-21) Shouts of heresy echo down through time, but who were the real heretics? Wasn't it the ones pointing the fingers and punishing those who dared to question clearly unbiblical doctrines?

History repeats….but who notices?

 

[Berean]

The new covenant for all is love. That was a special covenant to those who will sit on thrones= the bride of Christ= the anointed little flock= 144,000 bought from the earth.

This is a Bible forum, please use scripture and reason to prove your point.

The New Covenant is for Israel. through them, all the families of the earth will be blessed.

“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah" - Jeremiah 31:31​

The Apostle Paul quotes this very text in Hebrews Chapter 8. Now before you claim that Jesus rejected the Jews. Israel's rejection was not final. We're told in Romans 11:25:

"For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”​

​

Israel has been blinded, "until the fullness of the gentiles has come in." We agree that the "Little Flock" is made up of 144,000 bought from the earth. When the number is filled, then "all Israel will be saved." He says "as it is written", where is this written?

The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”​

​

It's from Psalm 14:7. This is not speaking of their captivity in Egypt, this is still the future, and as the scriptures have prophesied, Israel has returned to their land, still blinded in part, but the "fullness of the gentiles" has not occurred.

 

[Berean]

You are almost acrobatic when it comes to dodging direct questions…..I asked you what “the good news of the kingdom” is…..this response is a another deflection, showing that you also have no idea what the good news (gospel) is, with scriptural backing….in any clear statement.

The Good News in a nutshell can be found in John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

The “little flock” are already chosen, with very few on earth now as we approach “the end” that Jesus spoke about. (Matt 24:14) It seems that those “missing in action” concerning the assignment given by Jesus before his departure, has fallen on deaf ears.

Well according to the statistics, that number among you continues to grow, in the last 20 years it's doubled in number. Of course your Governing Body has a way of dismissing those numbers by calling certain ones among you as "mentally unstable". How do you know members of the GB aren't "unstable" with all the changes they've made the last several years?

Jesus said he would be “with” his disciples in this work that has a global scope…”this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” Who are out there obeying Jesus command in Matt 28:19-20?

Matthew 24:14 tells us it's a "witness" not a "conversion" work. Tell me what brings the Kingdom first? Is it the preaching work or the completion of the number 144,000?

The purpose of Matthew 24:14 is quite different from what Christians in general believe it to be, that is the conversion of the world. But not according to the Scriptures. The end mentioned in this text is not the end of the world, but the end of the preaching of the Gospel. You see, after the preaching of the Gospel has accomplished its work, this kind of preaching will no longer be necessary. The preaching work of this age, as laid out by Jesus, is not the conversion of the world, but the preaching of the Gospel as a witness to all the nations.

There's a distinction between the Good News of the Kingdom and the Kingdom itself. The Good News of the Kingdom is the Message concerning the Kingdom. When this Message accomplishes its work of gathering a special class from among the nations to constitute the Bride of Christ, then the Kingdom itself will be inaugurated and will begin its work, which will be for the salvation of the world at large. So we make the distinction between the Good News of the Kingdom and the Kingdom. The Good News is the announcement beforehand that the Kingdom is coming. When the Kingdom comes, of course the preaching that it is coming will be at an end; for the entire object of this preaching is to prepare for this coming Kingdom of God "under the whole heavens."

So tell me, where is this "Gospel" or "Good News" found? In the Watchtower magazines?

Jesus said “I will be with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things”….Who then is Jesus backing? Who are out seeking the “lost sheep” in all practical ways, as Jesus commanded his disciples to do? Do you see anyone else?

And to WHOM was Jesus speaking too? Was he speaking to a "Great Crowd" of "Other Sheep" who know nothing of "running the race of the upward call" because they were told that the door was closed in 1935, and then some 75 years later told, "oops, the door isn't closed, scratch 1935"? No, he was speaking to the prospective members of the bride class. There is NOTHING in the scriptures, not ONE verse that tells us that there is a calling for an earthly class NOW. You can cite and quote John 10 and Revelation 7, all you want with your scriptural gymnastics, but it doesn't make it so.

It is not a work that humans can accomplish on their own, without the backing that Jesus promised…..Christendom does not preach “the good news of the kingdom” because they have no real idea of what it is. Even those who claim to be “born again” have no knowledge of it, and cannot explain it in simple terms because it’s beautiful simplicity has been lost in the muddle of conflicting doctrines and the notion that all must go to heaven. That was never God’s purpose.

And yet YOU have yet to explain to me what the "good news of the kingdom" is.

My point is that true servants of Jehovah, who are genuine disciples of Jesus Christ, are not an obscure group that no one has ever heard of…..they are out there, visible, different, and completely separated from the disunited rabble that Christendom has proven to be for centuries.

When Jesus came in the flesh, he came obscured, not flashy, unnoticed to most around Him. He handpicked his disciples and they followed him. When He returned in the Spirit, again, he came obscured, unnoticed to the world, and only those who saw the sign(s) noticed. The Lord's people have always been obscured, one here and one there.

You think the Lord returned and chose the Watchtower Society in 1919 to be His channel, and every 95% of what the Society taught in 1919 has been discarded and is considered an error by today's beliefs and standards. If God was going to overhaul the beliefs and practices of a small group of individuals in Brooklyn, NY, why didn't he overhaul the Vatican? They had much more members and influence?

According to Daniel, they were to become a visible force in “the time of the end” and they would be distinguishable by their conduct and beliefs, in contrast to Christendom….this is the time for the separating of the “sheep from the goats”.

Ah, so you guys are still doing the separating work? I thought that was Jesus' job. Besides you guys had one of those JW Broadcasting videos early this year, where the GB stated that when it comes to judging, they didn't know. So why are you still separating? Isn't that a judgment? And who are you separating?

“Abundant knowledge“ was to become available at this time (Daniel 12:4; 9-10) and would be dispensed by one group who would be like the first Christians were to the Jews…..a distinct group with beliefs unlike the religion that Judaism had become over the centuries alienated from the true God by the adoption of man-made traditions and practices that God rejected.

Seems to me the GB are very much like their Jewish counter-parts when it comes to the "man-made traditions and practices."

Matt 24:45; Matt 15:7-9) There is just one “faithful and discreet slave” appointed by Jesus to “feed” his entire household of fellow slaves.

And we know who that is

“Join us or die?“…that Is a ridiculous statement, given the fact that Jesus himself proclaimed that only those who accepted the truth could be saved. Who is it that goes into “the lake of fire” ? (Gehenna…is not a literal place but symbolic of eternal death) According to Jesus, it is those who reject him as “the son of God” and who teach things he never taught as though they were indisputable truth. They never were, but who does their homework to “make sure of the more important things”?

"A ridiculous statement," you say? And then you add; "only those who accepted the truth could be saved." And you believe you are the only ones proclaiming this truth, and that you're engaged in the separating work of the sheep and the goats? And yet you still insist that was "a ridiculous statement," when you just admitted that you proclaim the truth that saves and those who reject it and not join you will be destroyed.

 

[Berean]

Progressive understanding was always how God revealed his truth...from Genesis to Revelation. God’s servants are given what they need to know, when they need to know it….

It's one thing to have a clearer understanding as we study the scriptures, it's another thing to proclaim something as truth, destroy people's lives because they reject it via excommunication, only to change it under the guise of "new light" and then change it again and again and again and again. Sounds like confusion to me.

Who is doing the stumbling? Who has been stumbling mankind regarding worship, all over the world since creation? The devil is an expert at perverting the truth and making lies seem like gospel truth. How confident are we that the great deceiver hasn’t stumbled us without us even being aware of it?
According to Jesus, we will be the last to know. (Matt 7:21-23)

And apparently, you are the last to know ... and there'll be weeping and gnashing of teeth because of it. But it's your loss. But as I've always said, if living forever on a paradise earth is what you want, then living on paradise earth is what you'll get. Just don't be surprised who else is there.

Who has heard of your group? Without a contrast who could make a comparison?
The first Christians were a stark contrast to the practicers of Judaism, and the “sheep” will be a stark contrast to the “goats”, as the “wheat” are a stark contrast to the “weeds”.

Well, I certainly don't wish to make a comparison to you. It doesn't matter if you've never heard of my group or if we even have a sectarian name. At this end of the age, the Lord's true followers will be small, one here and one there, remember, there's only 144,000. How many would be here today? By your count, it's about 10,000, by our count, it could be less. The Lord didn't call me to be part of an early organization, He called me to be a part of a heavenly one. A member of the Body of Christ, and if I make my "calling and election sure" I will be assisting my Lord in reconciling humanity back to my Father.

It’s not the similarity that will identify the true disciples of Christ, or how much they agree on their few foundational doctrines, producing a very non-cohesive global organization who all claim to be Christians, but who cannot agree on much else. (1 Cor 1:10) But it is in their dissimilarity to the majority, and the fact that they are out there doing what Christ commanded, known, visibly different, and hated and persecuted for it, just like the first Christians were, mainly by those who claim to worship the same God. (John 15:18-21) Shouts of heresy echo down through time, but who were the real heretics? Wasn't it the ones pointing the fingers and punishing those who dared to question clearly unbiblical doctrines?

So what truth is it you've been preaching that warrants persecution? The Witnesses have been in the news a lot lately because of certain practices and orders from headquarters, but we don't have to discuss it, as you well know, there was one in your own backyard.

History repeats….but who notices?

I do!

 

[Keiw]

This is a Bible forum, please use scripture and reason to prove your point.

The New Covenant is for Israel. through them, all the families of the earth will be blessed.

“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah" - Jeremiah 31:31​

The Apostle Paul quotes this very text in Hebrews Chapter 8. Now before you claim that Jesus rejected the Jews. Israel's rejection was not final. We're told in Romans 11:25:

"For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”​

​

Israel has been blinded, "until the fullness of the gentiles has come in." We agree that the "Little Flock" is made up of 144,000 bought from the earth. When the number is filled, then "all Israel will be saved." He says "as it is written", where is this written?

The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”​

​

It's from Psalm 14:7. This is not speaking of their captivity in Egypt, this is still the future, and as the scriptures have prophesied, Israel has returned to their land, still blinded in part, but the "fullness of the gentiles" has not occurred.

Luke 22:29-30--And i make a covenant with you just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom-30)That you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and SIT ON THRONES to judge the 12 tribes of Israel--The covenant was=Luke 22--parataking of the blood and flesh of Jesus symbolically with wine and unleavened bread. Only to these-Rev 14:3=144,000 bought from the earth= the anointed bride of Christ= the little flock. Only members of the little flock were present the night of the Lords evening meal. The great crowd-Observes and do not partake-Paul warned them they weren't worthy- 1Cor 11:27)

 

[The Learner]

Sorry, I don't smoke or drink

neither do I

 

[The Learner]

I don’t agree with them but it’s up to God to do the judging, not me.

It is up to you to tell them the truth about the real Jesus. I Peter 3:15

 

[The Learner]

I believe that as long as the focus is on the sacrifice and message of Jesus that JW can be saved. I would not say every JW will not get saved. Doctrinal issues make it harder to stay connected to God and influence others, but what matters is contextual message understanding. I would say its easier for a JW to get saved than a Mormon. Do you agree?

No, because both have false another Jesus. JW's Jesus is not God, LDS He became a god at his resurrection and exhaultation. No the real Jesus for either. They need to get the real Jesus right first to have a chance to get saved. Both are victims of invincible ignorance.

 

[The Learner]

I believe everyone will have the opportunity to be saved during the Millennial Reign. It is during this period that all of mankind will learn about the permission of evil and grow in grace and knowledge during which time Satan will be in the abyss, so as not to influence anyone.

That said, we need to remember that the Jehovah's Witnesses are taught by their Governing Body that Jesus is the mediator for the "anointed" Christians only, that is the 144,000. Thus the rank-and-file JW has no mediator. Their salvation is hinged on obeying the voice of their Governing Body, who reminds them at every opportunity that they are the "faithful and discreet slave" mentioned in Matthew 24:45, appointed by Jesus.

Here is a link to their own website on this matter

Is Jesus the Mediator only for spirit-anointed Christians or for all mankind...?

Luke 6:39
And he spoke also to them a similitude: Can the blind lead the blind? do they not both fall into the ditch?

 

[Keiw]

It is up to you to tell them the truth about the real Jesus. I Peter 3:15

The real Jesus=John 20:17--Its you who outright refuse to believe him over errors.

 

[MonoBiblical]

No, because both have false another Jesus. JW's Jesus is not God, LDS He became a god at his resurrection and exhaultation. No the real Jesus for either. They need to get the real Jesus right first to have a chance to get saved. Both are victims of invincible ignorance.

No one is safe. Everything dies. The best you can do is hope you righteousness exceeds Pharisees.

 

[The Learner]

FYI: “Mormons” actually have nothing in common with JW. Example: Mormons (like myself) believe that Jesus Christ is the divine Son of God and salvation comes through Him.

And, you know friend, I will say which Jesus