Rebellion, freewill, and covid

[Addy]

Even in the event that the authorities order us to take the vaccination, obeying the authorities is not worshipping an idol. Come on, you should know this. The authorities have not made this a religious issue in any way shape or form. They're not asking you to bow down to and serve a false god. I have heard nothing whatsoever that the vaccine is in some way being given to stop you from worshiping the true God and worshiping a false god. If/when they start doing that, then I'll resist. Until then I'm going to do what the governing authorities say to do, just as the Bible says I am to do. But so far no one's ordering me to take the vaccination.

Some people... and sadly some Christians... as we can see within these forums are so wound up and bound up in covid that they have lost their ability to reason and see properly... It's like they have been sucked into a vortex of fantasy... All they talk about... think about and breath is COVID and CONSPIRACY... this does something to them after awhile... and the effect is not remotely healthy.

This is why I have taken the opposite approach... and I stay away from the topic altogether... I am seeing the most disturbing behaviour coming from people who have lost their perspective. It's a sad state to see many believers LOST and stuck in the distractions of the world.

There is no covid in my world. I have absolutely no problem following mask mandates and keeping my distance. I consider it my duty.

It's been a heat wave this week... I'm really hoping I can have a few beach days that are cool. I already sense that I have spent way too much time in here.

The JESUS is missing in so many Christians... It's such a tragic thing to see.

 

[Taken]

Rebellion, freewill, and covid
OP ^

* Freewill, YES.
* Rebel, sure, against that which was never authorized to manage or dictate my healthcare.
* Covid, viruses, nothing new in the world.

 

[Truman]

I heard Bill Gates is having the Covid vaccine put into tattoo ink. That way people will get the jab without knowing it.

That Bill Gates, always trying to keep us, or put us, in the dark! Lol

 

[Truman]

The way I see it...with a little time, one will need proof of having the vaccine to enter stores and to have a business open to public. It's already happening in places. All for the sake of not spreading the virus. A card is already being used to show that you have had your shots.
A black market for counterfeit cards is already growing. I believe Bill Gates is putting forth a plan to have a chip implant or tattoo with which one can do business on the internet.
The time is soon coming, in my humble opinion, that one will need to prove they are a good citizen, are looking out for the greater public good, and are at the same time being business savvy, by having a mark in a place on their body that is easily scannable by an electronic device.
And there will be NO tolerance for putting the world at risk due to some ancient religious fantasy. More and more, the public consensus is being led by fear.

But don't take my word for it...ask the Lord to show you if there is anything to what I'm saying.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

I believe Bill Gates is putting forth a plan to have a chip implant or tattoo with which one can do business on the internet.

Relax, neither of those is going to happen

 

[Truman]

We'll see...

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

We'll see...

Its already been seen and neither of those methods are "workable" (workable as meeting the specific criteria of the MOTB as outlined in scripture).

Gates , as a designer of the software knows this. People like me (Engineers who make the hardware/firmware and make the systems work) know this. The people who don't know this are those who got the idea from 70's/80's vintage speculations, movies and articles written by people who do not have the actual technical knowledge to write them.

In case you are wondering- yes there will be a MOTB so I'm not saying that at all.

I'm just pointing out that the common internet concepts of a bar code ( tattoo of any flavor) or an implanted chip ( of any description) simply will not work for the MOTB application. They have both long since been tried and have too many inherent weaknesses.

 

[Truman]

I believe the pandemic is part of a master plan. I share my opinion, not to get others to agree with me, but to participate in humanity. If, in the process, another can receive any help from what I share, praise the Lord. If not, praise the Lord anyway!
For He is most worthy to be praised!
What matters most to me is that I am on the road...to my home...in the New Jerusalem! Yeah!!!

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

I believe the pandemic is part of a master plan.

FWIW I agree 100%

 

[Truman]

Oh yeah, you're the equipment guy. Cool!
Got your Son glasses on? Lol

 

[Karl Peters]

No, show me this "statement" you think unsupported and I will "support" it again for you in no uncertain terms.

Below are what you wrote: You made 2 statement and provided no support to either. So they are nothing more that accusations. It is like trying to debate with the little kid that just keeps saying "No it isn't". So it is an emotional response and not a response based on logic at all. Yet interestingly you think I am presenting "a logical fallacy'. If you indeed think the logic I provided in the OP is wrong then you need to explain why you think it is wrong and provide some type of support (Scriptures would be good, but data, facts, or at least a bit of reason for what you believe0 would be good.

That is a totally unfounded presumption devoid of any legitimate factual support whatsoever and nothing more than a logical fallacy appealing to a presumption of legitimacy and a circular statement.

You need to learn to read then comprehend that which you do before responding with unrelated straw man gibberish as you just did.

The statement I made is 100% factual and true ( easily verifiable) and I made no mention of "logic" ( devoid or otherwise)

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I believe the pandemic is part of a master plan. I share my opinion, not to get others to agree with me, but to participate in humanity. If, in the process, another can receive any help from what I share, praise the Lord. If not, praise the Lord anyway!
For He is most worthy to be praised!
What matters most to me is that I am on the road...to my home...in the New Jerusalem! Yeah!!!

I believe this is a trial run for the purpose of learning how the world responds to a pandemic and what to expect. This information will be used to manage the deployment and effectiveness of another more deadly pandemic. You have to remember that a major goal of the one world Marxist government is de-population. They're learning from this trial run how to develop and manage the real pandemic that's coming. Just my opinion. And you know what they say about opinions, lol.

 

[Truman]

I believe this is a trial run for the purpose of learning how the world responds to a pandemic and what to expect. This information will be used to manage the effectiveness of another more deadly pandemic. You have to remember that a major goal of the one world Marxist government is de-population. They're learning from this trial run how to develop and manage the real pandemic that's coming. Just my opinion. And you know what they say about opinions, lol.

A test-run for the delivery system. They have to be careful, a head-on war with America would be a losing proposition.
In my opinion.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

So they are nothing more that accusations. It is like trying to debate with the little kid that just keeps saying "No it isn't". So it is an emotional response and not a response based on logic at all. Yet interestingly you think I am presenting "a logical fallacy'. If you indeed think the logic I provided in the OP is wrong then you need to explain why you think it is wrong and provide some type of support (Scriptures would be good, but data, facts, or at least a bit of reason for what you believe0 would be good.

Spare me, I was quite specific. Your points were nothing but your own thoughts. But, by the numbers..

you said

So we have variance in the Covid vaccine, and because people didn't use wisdom and get vaccinated we as a nation (supposedly under God) is dealing with another round.

First we have legitimate concerns about the vaccine and much shrouded in secrecy- that's not a "variance" by any proper application of the word in scientific venue.

Then you make a wholly personal subjective claim that is subjective and impossible to verify "because we didn't.." as if that were some empirical fact which it comes nowhere near it.

Both of those are textbook logical fallicies and false on their face.

Then you say..

It might have had an effect anyway, but primarily the problem is with unvaccinated people - those who choose not to get the vaccine.

Speculation calling for a conclusion- another logical fallacy

next?

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

I believe this is a trial run for the purpose of learning how the world responds to a pandemic and what to expect. This information will be used to manage the effectiveness of another more deadly pandemic. You have to remember that a major goal of the one world Marxist government is de-population. They're learning from this trial run how to develop and manage the real pandemic that's coming. Just my opinion. And you know what they say about opinions, lol.

We seem to be viewing this in a very close parallel manner

 

[Karl Peters]

I weighed getting Covid again against the unknown effects of the vaccines and decided I'd go with getting Covid again, which I might have again.

I got Covid the first time last November because a couple of people I work with did not quarantine themselves when they knew they'd been directly exposed to it and one even had it. And now the same thing is happening, and it sure changes your perspective on the matter of people's rights and freedoms vs. the good of other people. I don't think we should do nothing at all about this. The problem is, the things that are being done aren't very well thought out. We do not have wise leadership here in the US. And apparently not in other countries as well.

I like the honesty in the above post. It shows the thinking and that way we apply our "freewill" that God gave us. We get faced with decision, and must make some choices - thus the "I weighed getting Covid again against the unknown effect of the vaccines" Yet are the effects of the vaccine unknown????? Does not God know the effects???? Where is our faith in God if we claim the effects are "unknown"???

As Christians we should not have that thinking. We are supposed to believe the Great I AM is and All Knowing God, and be putting our trust in Him. His sheep are suppose to hear His voice!

Ok - I sound a bit harsh, but can we not really examine ourselves and our faith and consider that perhaps our Lord Jesus Christ (The Living Word of God) might actually be "The Wonderful Counselor" and thus be able to help us with our decisions?

Of course God is spirit, and we only see through a glass darkly - so it is not so easy to believe that we can hear from Him. It is actually easy to hear from our Lord, but it is also hard to believe that we can hear from Him. To hear from Him you start asking Him question and consider what starts coming to you in your spirit. His Word in found in our hearts and somethings in our mouth. That is the Word of God we are preaching, right?

Never-the-less, with that freewill came the ability to make good and bad choices!! A bad choice, and truly the only real bad choice, is to not listen to God.

And so it is that we do make choices with our freewill. The really bad choice is to not get input from God, since He is there for us. Then the really good choice is to reason with Him before making our choices - but of course that takes faith in Him so as to believe He is there for us.

Is 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together," Says the LORD,
“Though your sins are as scarlet,
They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They will be like wool.

I don't mean to be getting on to other Christian but I am trying to help! If our help comes from above, then should we not seek Him and listen to what He says? Of course we should - but if we look at what is coming from us - do we find that we are seeking Him and what He has to say to us. In giving us life He gave us the freewill to seek Him or not, and we will seek Him or not based upon our belief that He is there to help us as The Wonderful Counselor, or not.


Like everyone else I had choices to make, but I sought Him, which is pretty much a regular thing for me, because I try to live my life by faith in Him. It is not that easy to believe in Him, but I try some of the time at least. So I talked to Him about Covid. I heard Him tell me that is wasn't going to be a problem for me. That seemed wrong, because while I have never caught it as far as I know, the effects our our society have presented issues for me too. Still, I have not had a problem specifically from catching it.

Another thing He told early on was that He wanted me to wear a mask in the public places, but the thing is that He told me that I personally didn't need to, but to make other people feel comfortable I needed to wear a mask. So from what I heard from Him, I wasn't wearing the maskfor me but to calm the fears of others. So I wear a mask like He said, and says, for the sake of others.

When I went to talk to Him about the vaccine, He didn't want to discuss it for a while. That change when it became available to me. He was like: ' If it is not available don't worry about it but once it was available He told me to wait 2 weeks so as to let those who were worried go first, then I was to go get the vaccine.'

The thing about talking to Him is that He is always so calm. He doesn't get concerned about things and especially when they are not an option. When they are an option, then I hear Him make a choice (still in the small calm voice of His) but the choice is often more about others and what can be done for them. Oh, He helps me as needed, but His thoughts are for everyone and they are not full of worry, ever.

I find it amazing, that He will talk to me, that His thoughts are not my thoughts, that He always does seem to know the right thing to do at the right time - but perhaps the most amazing things is that even I don't seek Him more. That is truly amazing - that I believe and have found it to be the case that God is with me, but I don't include Him even more in my decisions!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

A test-run for the delivery system. They have to be careful, a head-on war with America would be a losing proposition.
In my opinion.

No, America will be complicit in the whole thing.

 

[Truman]

No, America will be complicit in the whole thing.

With us, the patriots, is what I mean. I call my country, "Chinada."

 

[Addy]

The way I see it...with a little time, one will need proof of having the vaccine to enter stores and to have a business open to public.

They will not be able to enforce this rule for ESSENTIAL services. It's already happening in social settings like restaurants.

 

[Truman]

God made my immune system to work a certain way. This relatively unknown vaccine works against it. My health is a precarious balance. So far, I'm surviving. Throwing a dubious vaccine into the mix, when I don't think I need to, is, in my estimation, an unnecessary risk. And since I am led by the Spirit, if I was missing something, I'm sure He'd let me know.
I was led twice by the Spirit not to take Stemetil, but instead listened to the doctor's advice. There was a rare reaction to it, he said, but the odds were that I'd get hit by lightning before it happened to me. He was right. It still happened.
So unless I truly believe the Lord is telling me to take the shot, I won't. To me, it's a matter of life and death. I have to do what I believe the Lord's telling me to do.