Regarding the Holy Spirit and His gifts I believe...

[Heart2Soul]

Is he still posting? I don't see his posts anymore.
All of us Bap in the Holy Spirit should have a party and tell ALL our stories!!!!!
Some are hard for me to tell because they seem just simply impossible, ya know?
But, with fellow believers they are every day 'miracles'.
Oh, my .. the Holy Spirit...what can one say...all praise to You.

I think he started something but couldn't finish it. lol....on the other forum he gets a lot of support.....he didn't get any here...lol
Yes I love your idea of sharing testimonies of His mighty and awesome supernatural power!

 

[Dave L]

Why would you You want to associate with all of us deceived cultists?

Tell what is wrong with the Scriptures in Mark?

Mark 16:17-18 KJVS
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Were believers also abolished?

Are you Baptist? Tell us Dave what your denomination teaches even though we had a small hint.

Have you never seen God's power in your life, or have you never needed it?

I would not try to convince you of anything. I've seen that smug self righteous spirit all my life.

The same cold unloving spirit of those that used to try and talk me into going to their dead assemblies but NEVER NEVER telling me about the love God had for me. Condemning those desperate for the love of God.

You limit God by the denial of His power therefore limiting yourself to a mundane religious existence without the Dunamis, the power of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 4:20 KJVS
For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

I was a Charismatic but saw through the movement after a few years. And I know the "gifts" of today are not anything like the originals. We could begin a thread perhaps and look into it.

 

[Dave L]

So far you did not quote much scripture.

That's the problem. There is no scripture to support the position of many of today's Charismatics. If you can show from the bible, another means of distributing the gifts apart from an apostle's hands, or the two out pourings, please do.

 

[Dave L]

No my friend, you cannot prove anything to anyone who does not already agree with you. If they follow you instead of Jesus and you are wrong then will you not both fall in a ditch?

"I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase." I Cor 3:6-7

You need scripture to show that the gifts came in another way besides an apostle's hands, or the two outpourings. Otherwise you are adding to scripture.

 

[Dave L]

What Apostle Paul wrote was this:

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Rom 10:17

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matt 11:15

The "hearing" comes by the Word of God, but what is that? Is not the Word of God alive? Are all of the Bibles sitting on shelves in the 2nd hand stores across America alive while they for months and even years wait for someone to open them and read by the power of the Holy Spirit? No, when the words are consumed [read or heard] by a person and the Holy Spirit in that person quickens them, then are they the Word of God. Lots of people have read the Bible for the wrong reason with the wrong spirit and received nothing at all: no Life. God's fault? No, and you know why but you will argue with you logical mind to prove what can only be proven to a person by the Holy Spirit.

The "ears to hear" of which Jesus spoke is the Holy Ghost. Without the Holy Ghost in a person that person cannot understand or hear the Word of God even though he is able to read the Bible or hear someone else read it.

Jesus believed in the scriptures and constantly quoted them, but did He ever not have the Holy Spirit of God? Did He ever quench the Holy Spirit of God?

I have faith because scripture provided my information. Unless you can base your claims directly on scripture, you do not have faith in the matter.

 

[Dave L]

But we here don't have to "prove" anything...we already have lived proof, seen proof..experienced the proof.
We are not the ones that have the problem...you do.
It's sad, because you have no idea of what you are missing in God.

You can keep your silly legalistic ideas.
May the Might God open your blind eyes and dull ears....

I had the same proof you have as a Charismatic. But serious questions developed about the scriptural basis for them. As I began studying scripture I saw a distinct differences between the original gifts and today's "gifts". For one, tongues speaking was spontaneous, not learned. Also all of Christendom would be speaking in tongues, not just a few denominations if they were for today.

 

[Dave L]

Be careful what we believe? We must put things in the right order according to the priority Jesus gave us as per:

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33
If from the depths of our heart we are seeking first things first [God's kingdom and God's righteousness] then what is it that we need that He will not add to us?

If we are seeking these things always first why would we fear demons or false teachers?

Most cult members don't know they are in cults. And they quote the same verses. As soon as we think we are invincible, look out.

 

[Dave L]

Prove it.

Tongue speakers in the first century did not need to learn how to speak in tongues. They didn't know there was such a thing. It came out spontaneously. All of Christendom would be speaking in tongues if they were for today, not just a few denominations who coach each other on how to do it.

Much more to say. Maybe a new thread?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Tongue speakers in the first century did not need to learn how to speak in tongues. They didn't know there was such a thing. It came out spontaneously. All of Christendom would be speaking in tongues if they were for today, not just a few denominations who coach each other on how to do it.

Much more to say. Maybe a new thread?

By the way...welcome to the forum.

 

[Frank Lee]

I was a Charismatic but saw through the movement after a few years. And I know the "gifts" of today are not anything like the originals. We could begin a thread perhaps and look into it.

You weren't there in the original days. You are mistaken. My former pastor had God grow him a new lung after the old one was surgically removed. FBI investigated and left. I could list a 100 miracles but your heart is set.

Look I'm not nor ever have been part of the charismatic movement. Never. I was saved outside denominational walls and don't buy I to their doctrines. The things I've learned I learned from the Holy Spirit.

BTW, I was not coached to speak in tongues but by the Holy Spirit. I'd never heard of such a thing.

Dave you can't cubby hole people and lump them all into one box. If you abandoned God's gifts then you could never have had them.

Something catastrophic happened to you to turn you aside. That's too bad. Something very breaking caused you to turn against the written words of God. Who did this, thing to you and have you forgiven them?


God sought me out and saved me and baptized me in His Holy Spirit with the gift of tongues. Scriptural basis? Ezekiel chapter 34. God still STILL comes and saves diverse people all over the world.

I don't know where you are coming from but you're wrong to condemn people who have given their life to serve God. NOT some man made denomination.

Honestly I feel for you but if you think you will fill a bag with scriptures and beat others into submission you're wrong. I've walked in these things for over 40 years and refuse to attend churches. We still assemble with other believers but refuse denominations that are men's creations.

I can't convince you and you won't convince us. You are mind set against what the words of God say because of negative perhaps corrupt teachings.

 

[Frank Lee]

No one laid hands on me to receive the gifts of God. He just gave them. No hands are necessary. If God wants to do that He can... or not as He sees fit.

The old testament prophets had no hands laid on them. God just called them. Amos is one example.

God can do ANYTHING He wants ANYWAY He wants. I doubt if many on here would classify themselves as being charismatic. MG wife of 52 years and I have NEVER identified with ANY denomination, most especially charismatic, which has come to represent a denominational doctrine of wealth, false prosperity and so called word of faith. We rejected these things way back in 1978.

Your rejection of God's gifts are offensive to true believers that have experienced and yet walk in His anointing.

The miracles my family has seen from God Almighty were not involved with any man but gifted from God. Your method of blanket condemnation denies millions over the world that God has ministered to. Churches stay in their buildings so God yet goes to round up abandoned sheep like me. Sheep abandoned by denominations.

 

[Frank Lee]

Tongue speakers in the first century did not need to learn how to speak in tongues. They didn't know there was such a thing. It came out spontaneously. All of Christendom would be speaking in tongues if they were for today, not just a few denominations who coach each other on how to do it.

Much more to say. Maybe a new thread?

Why start a thread with an Unbeliever? Why weren't you able to receive?

None of the old testament prophets received God's gift of prophecy through the laying on of hands.

Cornelius and his friends were baptized in the Holy Spirit and given the gift of tongues without any hands being laid on them. Peter preached and they received when they believed.

Belief is the requirement... NOT the the laying on of hands.

 

[Dave L]

Why start a thread with an Unbeliever? Why weren't you able to receive?

I used to speak in tongues the same as you. Why call me an unbeliever when you do not know me? Are all but tongue speakers unbelievers?

 

[Frank Lee]

I used to speak in tongues the same as you. Why call me an unbeliever when you do not know me? Are all but tongue speakers unbelievers?

Why condemn us for what you have cast aside as nothing? Your problem is with God not man.
Someone convinced you that what God gave was false rather that it wasn't God at all. I wonder who it was...but I know who is behind such deceptions.

 

[Dave L]

You weren't there in the original days. You are mistaken. My former pastor had God grow him a new lung after the old one was surgically removed. FBI investigated and left. I could list a 100 miracles but your heart is set.

Look I'm not nor ever have been part of the charismatic movement. Never. I was saved outside denominational walls and don't buy I to their doctrines. The things I've learned I learned from the Holy Spirit.

BTW, I was not coached to speak in tongues but by the Holy Spirit. I'd never heard of such a thing.

Dave you can't cubby hole people and lump them all into one box. If you abandoned God's gifts then you could never have had them.

Something catastrophic happened to you to turn you aside. That's too bad. Something very breaking caused you to turn against the written words of God. Who did this, thing to you and have you forgiven them?


God sought me out and saved me and baptized me in His Holy Spirit with the gift of tongues. Scriptural basis? Ezekiel chapter 34. God still STILL comes and saves diverse people all over the world.

I don't know where you are coming from but you're wrong to condemn people who have given their life to serve God. NOT some man made denomination.

Honestly I feel for you but if you think you will fill a bag with scriptures and beat others into submission you're wrong. I've walked in these things for over 40 years and refuse to attend churches. We still assemble with other believers but refuse denominations that are men's creations.

I can't convince you and you won't convince us. You are mind set against what the words of God say because of negative perhaps corrupt teachings.

I entered the Charismatic movement in the early 70s. And I'm fully aware of Azuza Street and Bethel Bible college in Kansas. I also know God heals and works miracles today. But I had too many questions about what I saw in the movement during the 70s.

 

[Dave L]

Why condemn us for what you have cast aside as nothing. Your problem is with God not man.
Someone convinced you that what God gave was false. I wonder who it was.

We are to speak the truth even if unpopular. I merely answered a question about why the Apostles visited the Samarian believers after Philip preach to them and baptized them.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Here is my struggle with this thread. Some of you will remember a member named "sword". some of you won't. I remember Him and I miss him. I regret the way I treated him. I wanted to help him but overpowered him in trying to force sword to see it my way, which was wrong. The overwhelming majority of the forum jumped on this member as a fraud. He came here to push the gifts of the Spirit and told everyone here that we should all be ashamed for not operating in the gifts. Sword claimed every one he touched was instantly healed and he was called out on: if that is true then why are you not going to your local hospital to heal children with cancer. He called us less-of-a-Christian because we didn't work mighty signs and wonder as he did. He spoke on and on, beating every one down by saying there was a commission that we were refusing to do. "To raise the dead, cast our devils, to give sight to the blind, and to heal the sick." So I am confused because now I am pretty sure a couple of those that told "sword" he was fake then, are now saying it is of a truth. If it is true that some can lay their hands on every person they randomly come across and heal them...then shouldn't the board unblock the member named "sword" and we apologize to him for calling him a fraud. There is no difference here in this thread: those that don't speak in tongues...well then we are less of a Christian and less spiritual; having been brainwashed the people that push scripture.

The charismatic movement of 'signs and wonders' includes the prosperity gospel, instant healings, and speaking in an unknown tongue. These are the mighty signs and wonders. If the unknown tongue is not of that movement...then they sure resemble the unknown tongue of the movement. Regardless of what the gift of tongues is, or if it is for today. Without love the gift of tongues profits nothing. Satan worshipper and atheists have received a warmer welcome than Dave...just because he doesn't agree and has a different pov. Why is it that a new member can come here to bash God and we welcome them and even flock to them? But if someone speaks out against the gift of tongues...and it is extremely offensive.

 

[Frank Lee]

Dear VIJ, We ARE to convince! It's, our call.

2 Timothy 4:2 KJVS
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

I am not at this site to promote myself, a denomination or a doctrine. You cannot speak to and win all men by soft enticing words. What Paul told Timothy was as one battle savvy Warrior to another.

This is God's word the Bible, not denominational doctrine. The real Lamb of God not the ceramic one.

I love my children but it's not all cooing.

Of Jesus it is written;

Hebrews 5:8 KJVS
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Love is much much more than soft words.

Because you are not a partaker uou don't realize it's not the gift of tongues that is being rejected it is the Holy Spirit who is offering the gift.

 

[Dave L]

Dear VIJ, We ARE to convince! It's, our call.

2 Timothy 4:2 KJVS
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

I am not at this site to promote myself, a denomination or a doctrine. You cannot speak to and win all men by soft enticing words. What Paul told Timothy was as one battle savvy Warrior to another.

This is God's word the Bible, not denominational doctrine. The real Lamb of God not the ceramic one.

I love my children but it's not all cooing.

Of Jesus it is written;

Hebrews 5:8 KJVS
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Love is much much more than soft words.

Were you taught your beliefs? Or did you first see them in scripture and then find a church that came close to matching them?

 

[Truth]

I used to speak in tongues the same as you. Why call me an unbeliever when you do not know me? Are all but tongue speakers unbelievers?

Mark 16:16-18
v-16 He who believe's and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned!
v-17 "And these SIGNS will follow those WHO BELIEVE; IN MY NAME they will cast out demons; THEY will SPEAK with NEW TONGUES;
v-18 They will take up Serpent's; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; They will LAY HANDS on the Sick, and they will recover
The Last Word's before He Our Savior was Received up into Heaven, and Sat down at the Right Hand of God! {RED LETTER"S}

Acts 2:38-39---- Day of Pentecost
v-38 Then Peter said to them, Repent, and let every one of you be Baptized in the Name of Yeshua [Jesus] for the remission of sins; and YOU shall receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit.
v-39 For the Promise is to YOU and YOUR CHILDREN, and to ALL who are Afar off, as Many as the Lord Our God will Call