Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy

[Marymog]

The evidence you can provide is where Scripture says Sunday is the new Sabbath. Surely you have more than the two you provided which say nothing about the Sabbath being changed to Sunday.

As for my evidence, it comes from Scripture. Paul kept the Sabbath.

...the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. (Acts 13:42-44)​

Preaching and teaching to the Gentiles by the apostles took place on the Sabbath, not Sunday.

Notice also that teaching on the Sabbath was Paul's custom:

Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and demonstrating that the Messiah had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, "This Yeshua whom I preach to you is the Messiah." And some of them were persuaded; and a great multitude of the devout Greeks, and not a few of the leading women, joined Paul and Silas. (Acts 17:1-4)​

Also Acts 18:4 states:

And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.
​

Greeks attending the synagogue service on Sabbath? When they received Yeshua did they suddenly start going to Sunday church?

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Paul said;

"Imitate me, just as I also imitate Messiah. (1 Corinthians 11:1)
​

Messiah Yeshua kept the 7th day Sabbath until the day he died. Paul imitated him. We are to imitate Paul and Yeshua as well. If Paul kept Sunday, he certainly was NOT imitating Messiah.

Paul also said in Acts 25:8;

While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all.​

and in Acts 28:17;

And it came to pass, that after three days Paul called the chief of the Jews together: and when they were come together, he said unto them, Men and brethren, though I have committed nothing against the people, or customs of our fathers, yet was I delivered prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans.
​

Had Paul abandoned the 7th day Sabbath in favor of Sunday, he would not only have broken the law, but would have immensely offended the Jews.

Paul died around 65 CE. Before he died he said, "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock." Acts 20:29. How do you understand that?

Hola,

What day is “The Lords Day”?

Can you please provide ANY proof that Christians in the first 100 years after the death of Jesus practiced Saturday church services?

 

[gadar perets]

Roman 14:5
"One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind."

First, the word "alike" is in italics in the KJV because it is not in the Greek. There is nothing wrong with esteeming every day, after all, YHWH made them all. If we choose to worship Him seven days a week, so be it and halleluyah! However, that does not change the fact that as we worship Him every day we must also rest from labor on one day, the Sabbath. It is a mistake to read the Sabbath into this verse. Nowhere is the Sabbath mentioned. Nor can we read any of YHWH's annual sabbaths or feast days into this verse. There were many other "days" that the Jews highly esteemed besides the Sabbath and feasts. For example, most Jews at that time fasted twice a week (Luke 18:12 and Talmudic writings). The Jews also kept fast days throughout the year as mentioned in Zechariah 8:19. Then there was the Feast of Purim (Esther 9:28), and the Feast of Dedication or Hanukkah (John 10:22). The Jewish converts would have probably continued esteeming those days whereas the Gentile converts would probably not, especially since they were not commanded by YHWH to be kept. However, all men knew the Sabbath was commanded and so there was no question about its observance as seen in such verses as Acts 18:4 and Acts 13:42-44; 14:1.

As Jesus is our Sabbath Rest...it does not matter a hill of beans.

Hebrews chapter 4 addresses the "true rest of the soul." The original account from which Hebrews 4:1-11 is taken is found in Numbers 14:22-24, 28-30, and Deuteronomy 1:30-40. In both passages it was the "land" (of Canaan) that was being withheld because of unbelief. The children of Israel were on their wilderness journey to the "promised land," which was a type of the "rest" to come. Joshua brought them into that land or the typical "rest" (Joshua 1:13-15; 21:44; 22:4), yet the Almighty again spoke through David concerning this greater rest. In Psalm 95:11, David uses the phrase "my rest" instead of "the land" as in the original promise. Why? Because "the land" was only a type of the future rest to come when true believers enter into the true promised land, the "heavenly country" that the patriarchs of old saw from afar (Hebrews 11:13-16).

We are currently on our wilderness journey as well. We are heading for the heavenly country promised us. Just as the Israelites continued keeping the Sabbath rest throughout their wilderness journey, so, too, must we continue to keep the Sabbath rest. In fact, the Israelites continued to keep the Sabbath even after entering the typical promised land of Canaan. We, too, will continue in the Sabbath rest as prophesied by Isaiah (66:22,23) even after the new heaven and new earth come.

If the common Christian view of Hebrews 4:10 is correct, that the Sabbath is abolished because we have entered the true rest in Jesus, then, to be consistent, it must also be true that all work is abolished since we have ceased from our own works. In other words, if the physical rest is done away with, then the physical labor should also be done away with. However, since believers continue to do physical labors like farming, construction work, etc., they should also continue to rest from such labor as it is written. Additionally, the Sabbath rest is commanded for the sake of animals as well. Is it now permissible for farmers to work their animals seven days a week? Do animals somehow enter into the true rest as well?

Hebrews 4:11 talks about laboring to enter into that rest. It is not something we automatically receive upon accepting Yeshua as our Savior except by faith. That rest will become a reality upon our resurrection unto eternal life. That is why we see the saints of Revelation 14:12,13 laboring right up until death. It is only after death that the ultimate rest can literally begin. Note, also, that those saints "keep the commandments of God" (KJV), among which is the Sabbath.

We certainly can find rest for our souls in Messiah (Matthew 11:28, 29), but he does not give our bodies rest, nor does he give animals rest. That kind of rest is only available through the Sabbath rest. Jeremiah 6:16 reads, "Thus saith YHWH, 'Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls.' But they said, 'We will not walk therein.' " The "old paths" and the "good way" that provides a "rest for the soul" includes the keeping of YHWH's Sabbaths. Notice the similar wording found in Isaiah 58:12,13. The rest we have in Yeshua is only a foretaste of the rest to come at his second coming when we will be dwelling in the presence of the Father and the Son in the glorious "heavenly country".

Deuteronomy 5:15 reads, "And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that YHWH thy Elohim brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore YHWH thy Elohim commanded thee to keep the Sabbath day." Notice the keeping of the Sabbath rest followed the Israelite redemption from slavery and bondage. How much more should we keep the Sabbath with joy overflowing after our greater redemption from sin and death? Why? Because every time we keep the Sabbath holy we remember and proclaim who it is that provided this great deliverance for us (Deuteronomy 5:15); we remember and proclaim who it is that sanctifies us (Exodus 31:13); we remember and proclaim who it is that created us and all things (Exodus 20:11); and we delight in both the Sabbath and YHWH Himself, and honor YHWH by doing His will and good pleasure (Isaiah 58:13,14). The Sabbath is truly holy, sanctified, blessed, delightful, and honorable.

 

[gadar perets]

Keep holy the Sabbath is a ceremonial commandment. All the others are moral commandments. Many ceremonial practices of the Jews were changed with Jesus.

What gives you the right to declare the Sabbath a "ceremonial commandment" when YHWH Himself never said such? Just because it involves a time element does not make it ceremonial. The designation "ceremonial" is not found in Scripture. It was invented by man to put certain commandments in their man-made box so they don't have to keep them. It is utterly immoral to cause your neighbor to work when YHWH told your neighbor to rest. It is utterly immoral to cause your employees or your horse, ox, donkey, etc., to work seven days a week with no rest. It is utterly immoral to break ANY of YHWH's commandments because the fact that He commanded anything makes that thing immoral to break it and sin.

 

[gadar perets]

Hola,

What day is “The Lords Day”?

Can you please provide ANY proof that Christians in the first 100 years after the death of Jesus practiced Saturday church services?

If you can't accept the Scriptural proofs I offered, all of which show Sabbath keeping within the first 50 years after Yeshua's death, so be it. Take it up with YHWH come judgment day.

Is Yeshua Lord of the Sabbath? Yes. Therefore, the Sabbath is the Lord's day. Sabbath breaking Christians eventually redefined the Lord's Day to refer to Sunday.

 

[Marymog]

If you can't accept the Scriptural proofs I offered, all of which show Sabbath keeping within the first 50 years after Yeshua's death, so be it. Take it up with YHWH come judgment day.

Is Yeshua Lord of the Sabbath? Yes. Therefore, the Sabbath is the Lord's day. Sabbath breaking Christians eventually redefined the Lord's Day to refer to Sunday.

You can’t accept the scriptural proofs I gave. Now we are back to square one.

Historical evidence gives me the edge. Now I am ahead of you. One point for me. Zero for you.

It appears you can’t provide any historical Christian writings backing your opinion. Therefore the weight of the evidence leans toward Sunday worship both in scripture and NT practice.

From whom did you get your translation of scripture from concerning this subject?

I trust the writings of the men who walked and talked with the Apostles. Who’s writings do you trust?

Mary

 

[gadar perets]

From whom did you get your translation of scripture from concerning this subject?

I use a variety of translations, mostly the KJV with modifications/corrections.

I trust the writings of the men who walked and talked with the Apostles. Who’s writings do you trust?

The writings of the Apostles themselves.

 

[gadar perets]

Here is the bottom line Marymog; If you cannot cite a command from the Father, Son or any Apostle saying the Sabbath is abolished or changed to Sunday, then it hasn't been abolished or changed lawfully. I do not deny that factions of Christianity changed the Sabbath to Sunday and that other factions abolished it altogether, but they did it unlawfully. BTW, the fact that Christians can't agree on whether it is abolished or changed to Sunday shows that at least one of those beliefs is a false teaching. The truth is, they are both false teachings. The Sabbath is a creation mandate that will continue to exist throughout the Millennium (Genesis 2:1-3; Isaiah 66:22-23).

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus changed a lot of things....didn’t he. He also said to the Apostles what you bind on earth will be bound in heaven. Scripture and Christian historical writings from the times of the Apostles say Sunday. Nothing else.

Keep holy the Sabbath is a ceremonial commandment. All the others are moral commandments. Many ceremonial practices of the Jews were changed with Jesus.

Mary

I never considered the Sabbath as being ceremonial, just one of the commandments.
I know that with Jesus' coming, the ceremonial and the civil laws have been abolished, but not the moral law. That's still to be followed.

@gadar perets has good points too. I'll have to work this out on my own, but yours was a great point.

 

[GodsGrace]

Here is the bottom line Marymog; If you cannot cite a command from the Father, Son or any Apostle saying the Sabbath is abolished or changed to Sunday, then it hasn't been abolished or changed lawfully. I do not deny that factions of Christianity changed the Sabbath to Sunday and that other factions abolished it altogether, but they did it unlawfully. BTW, the fact that Christians can't agree on whether it is abolished or changed to Sunday shows that at least one of those beliefs is a false teaching. The truth is, they are both false teachings. The Sabbath is a creation mandate that will continue to exist throughout the Millennium (Genesis 2:1-3; Isaiah 66:22-23).

Jesus did abolish the ceremonial law.
Do you consider Saturday worship to have been under ceremonial law or not? It seems like it would be.
You've given me some good scripture to study.

 

[gadar perets]

Jesus did abolish the ceremonial law.

Where? What is the "ceremonial law"? Can you define it? Is baptism a "ceremonial law"?

Do you consider Saturday worship to have been under ceremonial law or not? It seems like it would be.
You've given me some good scripture to study.

The Sabbath is not ceremonial for the reasons I stated in post#23. Neither are the Feast days. The Sabbath is part of YHWH's Torah. Torah is to be written on our hearts and minds under the New Covenant. No man or woman has the right to teach others it is changed or abolished. It was originally written on stone as a sign of its immutability. Now, it is supposed to be within us. It is the ONLY commandment that is a sign of who it is that sanctifies us (Exodus 31:12-18). That passage also tells us it is a perpetual covenant in and of itself, separate from the Sinai Covenant.

 

[gadar perets]

Do you consider Saturday worship to have been under ceremonial law or not?

You mention worship. Let me just address that. There is absolutely nothing wrong with worshipping YHWH on Sunday. If you choose to honor Yeshua's resurrection on Sunday, so be it. However, YHWH commands us to have a holy convocation on the 7th day to worship Him. He also requires us not to work on that day. To do so is sin. So if you choose to continue to worship on Sunday, great, but do not neglect to also worship on the 7th day and not do any work so as to keep the only day of the week that was sanctified (set apart, holy) to remain holy and undefiled. By doing so you will receive the blessing that was put upon the 7th day in Genesis 2.

 

[GodsGrace]

Where? What is the "ceremonial law"? Can you define it? Is baptism a "ceremonial law"?


The Sabbath is not ceremonial for the reasons I stated in post#23. Neither are the Feast days. The Sabbath is part of YHWH's Torah. Torah is to be written on our hearts and minds under the New Covenant. No man or woman has the right to teach others it is changed or abolished. It was originally written on stone as a sign of its immutability. Now, it is supposed to be within us. It is the ONLY commandment that is a sign of who it is that sanctifies us (Exodus 31:12-18). That passage also tells us it is a perpetual covenant in and of itself, separate from the Sinai Covenant.

There were 3 types of law in the OT, moral, ceremonial, civil.
Moral would be the commandments.
Civil would be weddings or divorce.
Ceremonial would be the sacrifices.
This is common knowledge, but if necessary I'll look for something when I'm not on this tablet.
As I said, I never considered the Sabbath to be ceremonial,,but it's a thought.

However, what you say above is correct.
I "taught" the covenant's a couple of times ...in quotation marks because there's so much to know and I'm not a professor. But I'm forgetting a lot. I checked my notes and, yes, the sign for the Mosaic covenant is the Sabbath. But if we're to keep this sign, then we should also be keeping the sign of the abrahamic covenant...
Circumcision.

Each new covenant did not abolish the earlier ones, but it could have changed them or improved them.
As you stated, however, the apostles did keep the Sabbath, or so it would seem; whereas they specifically stated we are now circumcised in the heart, on the inside and not on the outside and that it was an unnecessary burden on the gentiles.

Much to think about.

 

[GodsGrace]

You mention worship. Let me just address that. There is absolutely nothing wrong with worshipping YHWH on Sunday. If you choose to honor Yeshua's resurrection on Sunday, so be it. However, YHWH commands us to have a holy convocation on the 7th day to worship Him. He also requires us not to work on that day. To do so is sin. So if you choose to continue to worship on Sunday, great, but do not neglect to also worship on the 7th day and not do any work so as to keep the only day of the week that was sanctified (set apart, holy) to remain holy and undefiled. By doing so you will receive the blessing that was put upon the 7th day in Genesis 2.

Yes. Of course God blessed the 7th day. Right now it seems to me that man changed it to Sunday.
SDAs believe that those who treat Saturday as a normal day are lost.
I can't go this far.

 

[Marymog]

I use a variety of translations, mostly the KJV with modifications/corrections.
The writings of the Apostles themselves.

Hi,

Paul said, "let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath."

Sunday was the day Jesus was found to have been resurrected. Sunday was the day he appeared to the two disciples on the road to Emmaus and broke bread with them. Jesus first two appearance to the twelve disciples were on the following two Sundays. Five weeks later—on Sunday—the Holy Spirit descended on the apostles. EVEYTHING in the NT points to Sunday worship in the NT.

Paul tells us, "On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up......" Why the first day of the week? Because that is the day the early Church met for worship and broke bread in remembrance of Jesus.

And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread,...Acts 20

The historical writings show that the men who walked with the Apostles celebrated the Lords day on Sunday....not Saturday.

You have zero, zilch, nadda, none and NO evidence that anything other than Sunday was the day that Christians celebrated the Lords day. The NT points to it. The historical writings point to it. I asked you for your historical reference to when Sunday worship became controversial. You provided none. I suggested in the mid 1500's AD, you didn't suggest otherwise or give me proof I was wrong. According to your theory a majority of Christians have been breaking the Sabbath commandment for 2000 years. Even the men who walked and talked with the Apostles got it wrong? Seriously???

In Post #14 you partially quoted Acts 13:42-44 to make your point. How dishonest. You INTENTIANLLY left out the words "And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue,....In CONTEXT we know that Paul went to the synagogue on the Sabbath to preach and convert the Jews because that is where you would find the Jews gathered. If you were a Jew you wouldn't go to a Christian church on a Tuesday night to try and convert them because NO ONE WOULD BE THERE!!! Even though we should be there everyday.

Maybe the wolves are the ones who came up with your theory?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

I never considered the Sabbath as being ceremonial, just one of the commandments.
I know that with Jesus' coming, the ceremonial and the civil laws have been abolished, but not the moral law. That's still to be followed.

@gadar perets has good points too. I'll have to work this out on my own, but yours was a great point.

A ceremony is a ritual observance practiced or kept at certain times. In the case of the 10 commandments it is the Sabbath (Saturdays) that was the only ceremonial commandment.

The other 9 commandments are practiced all the time. There is no ceremony to them.

Hope that helps.

Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

yes, it helps to illustrate how you can easily be fighting God and teaching people to ignore Commandments, at least
i mean, why remove jots or tittles when you can remove entire Commandments, huh?

there is no ceremony to taking one day a week off, that i am aware of?

 

[bbyrd009]

And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread,...Acts 20

The historical writings show that the men who walked with the Apostles celebrated the Lords day on Sunday....not Saturday.

this does not mean that they didn't take Saturday off though; or that SDAs are correct in Saturday services.
I take Saturday off, and go to "church" on Sunday too.

You are merely justifying the model you have been raised with, Mary, that doesn't make it right.
The same ppl told you that Easter was in the Bible too, right?
told you to confess your sins to men in dark closets, too, right?
if they jump off a bridge, you gonna do that too?

 

[GodsGrace]

yes, it helps to illustrate how you can easily be fighting God and teaching people to ignore Commandments, at least
i mean, why remove jots or tittles when you can remove entire Commandments, huh?

there is no ceremony to taking one day a week off, that i am aware of?

Removing entire commandments. This is the problem I have with this.

 

[Marymog]

this does not mean that they didn't take Saturday off though; or that SDAs are correct in Saturday services.
I take Saturday off, and go to "church" on Sunday too.

You are merely justifying the model you have been raised with, Mary, that doesn't make it right.
The same ppl told you that Easter was in the Bible too, right?
told you to confess your sins to men in dark closets, too, right?
if they jump off a bridge, you gonna do that too?

The Catholic Church has services everyday in Churches all around the world. We do this in remembrance of Him everyday, just like the NT Christians did. Do you?

What model have you been raised with?

Easter is the celebration of the rising of Christ. It is in the bible.

Jesus said to men, if you hold men's sins they are held. If you loose them they are loosed. He didn't say God holds sins.

No bridge jumping here.

 

[bbyrd009]

Removing entire commandments. This is the problem I have with this.

but i agree with you, too; i don't judge ppl for not taking Saturday off. I think it is a valuable thing, that pays dividends--and will certainly mark one out as peculiar--but imo however one might remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy is their business, not mine. But then i don't get all ritualized about it either, i drink beer on Saturday, have friends over, etc. Avoid SDAs like the plague, personally, lol.