Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy

[mjrhealth]

The Scripture's are Our foundation

Christ is our foundation, this bit,

Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

without Him as our foundation, we are standing on shifting sand as you can see.

1Co_10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

 

[tabletalk]

From 1Timothy 1:8. But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9. knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,…"

If Paul is teaching about the Mosaic Law, then these verses explain who should follow the 4th Commandment.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Please show me a lexicon that gives "cheirographon" that meaning.

Like often happens in any language one word may and more often has to be translation with more than one word, so does it often happen in any language not just Greek, that more than one word can or must be translated in one word in the language of translation.
Now that's what happened necessarily in Colossians where 'cheirographon' does not stand alone but together with the important truth that the "hand-written-Law" is the "Law AGAINST and CONTRARY, viz., DAMNING us". Which truth one finds in all and every real translation, not just mine.

 

[Josho]

There is nothing wrong with having the Sabbath on a Sunday, God created everyday of the week, if you gotta rescue a donkey out of a pit on Saturday, then go do it. I have never came across thou must not do work on a Sabbath in the New Testament, this is the stuff Jesus challenged the Pharisees with, this is the stuff Jesus caused an uproar against the Jews with.

The Jews were furious and waiting for the moment to accuse him, when Jesus asked them "Is it not lawful to do good on a Sabbath?" He then asked the man with the withered hand to stretch out his hand, and Jesus healed the man's withered hand on a Sabbath. And the Jews sought and planned how they might catch and kill him, after that good miracle was done on the Sabbath.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

From 1Timothy 1:8. But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9. knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,…"

If Paul is teaching about the Mosaic Law, then these verses explain who should follow the 4th Commandment.

Just remember that the Lord is watching, the Almighty notices, Jesus Christ, THE WORD OF GOD is hearing, YOU!
Remember all ye lawless, "the law is for the lawless"!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Christ is our foundation, this bit,

Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

without Him as our foundation, we are standing on shifting sand as you can see.

1Co_10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

...and what and how much would you have known of, about and personally with no Scripture?

Let us hear the 'spirits' tell, you know, 'the spirit' or who or of whom, really!

 

[gadar perets]

Look how I shiver of fear. You '~totally reject everything in --my-- man-made Greek translation.~'
Is there any translation in the world of Colossians 2:12-19 that is not, a '~man-made translation~'.
I know of a few Greek translations which are also just 'man-made'.

So, sorry I cannot give you my, Greek translation as I have never tried to make one.

You know what I meant. Direct me to a source, besides your own, that translates Colossians 2:12-19 as you do. I doubt one exists because no translator would ever translate the same Greek word two different ways in the same sentence.

 

[Josho]

The Sabbath belongs to all mankind. YHWH made it for man (Mark 2:27).

Exactly.... It is made for us to rest. But in the New Covenant it does not matter if we have the Sabbath on a Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, for some Christians that work in restaurants and cafes, Tuesday is their Sabbath, Tuesday is their day of rest, and for a few they don't even get a day off, so the hours after work is their Sabbath. Some Christian contract workers got deadlines to meet and they gotta work through a Saturday, Christian nurses, paramedics have to save lives and attend to other urgent emergencies on Saturdays and Sunday's, someone's plumbing might burst on a Saturday, hey someone has gotta fix it. What about those struggling small Christian businesses working on a Saturday to feed their family. Or what if God commanded you go help out someone doing it tough on a Saturday?

Thank you Jesus, that Jesus has fulfilled the Law.

The New Covenant Sabbath is not bound by religious law, structure or procedure.

 

[gadar perets]

You, Gadar Perets, are the one who gave 'cheirographon' the meaning of '~certificate of debt~', not I! And more, I'll say more than what you bargained for, that you are not the originator of the expression '~certificate of debt~'. You got it from the Seventh day Adventists, more specifically from their more recent dignified virtually deified professor-scholar of prophetic stature among them, Samuele Bacchiocchi [an old, now deceased, foe and 'friend' of mine when you were like you are now still, wet behind the ears.]

I did not get "certificate of debt" from Bacchiocchi, who is obviously correct if that is what he teaches. The NASB translates "cheirographon" as "certificate of debt".

Col 2:14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
​

Here are a few more sources that agree;

The Friberg Lexicon explains cheirographon dogma as a “strictly handwritten document; in legal matters a promissory note, record of indebtedness, bond; figuratively in [Colossians] 2.14 not as the law itself, but as the record of charges … which stood against us and which God symbolically removed by ‘nailing it to the cross’ ” (Bible Works software, emphasis added).

Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Wordsfurther explains: “This means a memorandum of debt, ‘a writing by hand’ used in public and private contracts, and it is a technical word in the Greek papyri. A large number of ancient notes of hand have been published and of these Dr. Deissmann says, ‘a stereotyped formula in these documents is the promise to pay back the borrowed money, “I will repay”; and they all are in the debtor’s own hand, or, if he could not write, in the handwriting of another acting for him, with the express remark, “I have written for him” ’. . .

“In the famous Florentine papyrus of A.D. 85, the governor of Egypt gives this order in the course of a trial,—’Let the hand-writing be crossed out,’ which corresponds to the ‘blotting out the hand-writing’ of Col[ossians] 2:14” (Graham Scroggie, forward to Vine’s, Logos Library System, 1997).

The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament adds: “The point of the metaphor of the note of indebtedness is rather to underline the previous statement … [that] God has forgiven sins. He has canceled the note of indebtedness by taking it and fixing it to the cross of Christ” (Gerhard Kittel, 1995, Vol. 9, p. 436, emphasis added).​

If you say the "damning law" was blotted out, then you are proclaiming the end of the Ten Commandments, including the Sabbath, as well as the blotting out of the two greatest commandments.

 

[mjrhealth]

...and what and how much would you have known of, about and personally with no Scripture?

Simply because I met Him, and you know what I believe Him when He says he died for me and that it is "finished". as for smart men

Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

still hasnt changed to many smart people in this world, smarter than God apparently. and all I see is two men tying to prove how smart they are. As for your other mate. seems to be a christian. trying to be a Jew. Thats his problem.

 

[gadar perets]

Like often happens in any language one word may and more often has to be translation with more than one word, so does it often happen in any language not just Greek, that more than one word can or must be translated in one word in the language of translation.
Now that's what happened necessarily in Colossians where 'cheirographon' does not stand alone but together with the important truth that the "hand-written-Law" is the "Law AGAINST and CONTRARY, viz., DAMNING us". Which truth one finds in all and every real translation, not just mine.

The Greek word for "law" (nomos) is not found in Colossians 2:14. The word "dogma" refers to the decrees of men. YHWH's ordinances are called "dikaioma", not "dogma". Paul is not talking about YHWH's ordinances in this verse. He is talking about man's ordinances or traditions. This same word is used in Colossians 2:20 pertaining to the doctrines and commandments of men; in Luke 2:1 pertaining to a decree from Caesar Augustus; and in Acts 17:7 pertaining to a decree from Caesar. Compare the word dogma with the Greek word that pertains to YHWH's ordinances, "dikaioma."

This word dikaioma was used in Luke 1:6 pertaining to the ordinances of YHWH and in Hebrews 9:1,10 pertaining once again to YHWH's ordinances. Therefore, Paul is saying in verse 14 that the traditions and commandments of men are the issue, not YHWH's laws. But what was nailed to the cross? The Greek construction shows that the "handwriting" was nailed, not the ordinances. Whenever a man sins against YHWH his sin is imputed against him (Romans 4:7,8). When men exalt the traditions of men over the commandments of YHWH, as the Pharisees did, for example, they sin against YHWH. The Messiah became sin for us and when He was nailed to the tree so were the sins that were imputed against us. YHWH's holy ordinances were not nailed to the tree, the certificate of debt resulting in our death sentence was nailed to the tree. That is why Paul said the Colossians were "dead in your sins" in verse 13. The principalities and powers of verse 15 caused the people to sin by their man-made laws but Messiah was victorious over them.

 

[gadar perets]

There is nothing wrong with having the Sabbath on a Sunday, God created everyday of the week, if you gotta rescue a donkey out of a pit on Saturday, then go do it. I have never came across thou must not do work on a Sabbath in the New Testament, this is the stuff Jesus challenged the Pharisees with, this is the stuff Jesus caused an uproar against the Jews with.

The Jews were furious and waiting for the moment to accuse him, when Jesus asked them "Is it not lawful to do good on a Sabbath?" He then asked the man with the withered hand to stretch out his hand, and Jesus healed the man's withered hand on a Sabbath. And the Jews sought and planned how they might catch and kill him, after that good miracle was done on the Sabbath.

Yeshua never came against the Sabbath in the NT. He came against the man-made prohibitions the Jews put upon the Sabbath. Yeshua did not need to correct the Jews on not working on Sabbath. They all knew that. What they didn't know was how they were placing needless burdens upon the people by teaching them, for example, that they could not heal on the Sabbath. Yeshua corrected them and, by doing so, undermined their authority which is why they tried to kill him.

 

[gadar perets]

Exactly.... It is made for us to rest. But in the New Covenant it does not matter if we have the Sabbath on a Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, for some Christians that work in restaurants and cafes, Tuesday is their Sabbath, Tuesday is their day of rest, and for a few they don't even get a day off, so the hours after work is their Sabbath. Some Christian contract workers got deadlines to meet and they gotta work through a Saturday,

These are merely excuses to continue in sin and a lack of faith in trusting in YHWH to provide should they choose to obey Him. Do you not think YHWH will provide an even better job for them if they choose to obey Him by not working on the 7th day? Your "Sabbath on any day of the week" doctrine will not stand come judgment day. That does not mean such Christians will lose their salvation, but they most certainly will lose rewards in the Kingdom.

Christian nurses, paramedics have to save lives and attend to other urgent emergencies on Saturdays

Preserving life and health is a valid reason for working on Sabbath. However, if such people can get the 7th off from such work, they should. Most nurses do not work seven days a week. Instead of getting off on Sunday, they can ask for Saturday off.

someone's plumbing might burst on a Saturday, hey someone has gotta fix it. What about those struggling small Christian businesses working on a Saturday to feed their family.

More excuses. Plumbing problems can wait until Sunday to get fixed.

Or what if God commanded you go help out someone doing it tough on a Saturday?

I don't know what "doing it tough" means. If God commands something, then we are to obey. He has already commanded His people to not work on the 7th day. So if we hear a voice telling us to work on the 7th day, we better be very sure it is HIS voice and not our own or the adversaries.

Thank you Jesus, that Jesus has fulfilled the Law.

The New Covenant Sabbath is not bound by religious law, structure or procedure.

There is no such thing as "the New Covenant Sabbath". The OC Sabbath has been carried over into the NC.

 

[mjrhealth]

These are merely excuses to continue in sin

You sin any way, the only person who never did not sin was Christ, so your argument is mute, you just need an excuse to try prove your worth by the law, there is no other reason for it, and it makes you angry, you should read your own posts.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

The problem with stumbling blocks is they hurt when you fall over them.

 

[gadar perets]

You sin any way, the only person who never did not sin was Christ, so your argument is mute, you just need an excuse to try prove your worth by the law, there is no other reason for it, and it makes you angry, you should read your own posts.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

The problem with stumbling blocks is they hurt when you fall over them.

I never professed to not sin. However, I do not willfully continue in sin and worse, I do not promote sin as you are doing.

It is the Sabbath breakers that get angry when their sins are exposed.

What is sin? One definition is "transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4).

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we (sin - transgress the law), because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
​

Sadly, you think grace abolishes the law.

 

[mjrhealth]

I never professed to not sin. However, I do not willfully continue in sin and worse, I do not promote sin as you are doing.

Put into context

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

because

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

again

1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

and you do now that our righteousness comes form Christ, so are you telling Jesus He s a sinner or is righteousness is not good enough for you? Its good enough for Him and its good enough for God.

as for the Israelites and Jews

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

i suppose its true

Luk 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Luk 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

doesnt seem to be a lot

Luk 10:39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.
Luk 10:40 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.
Luk 10:41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:

some just far to busy.

God bless

 

[gadar perets]

Put into context

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

You interpret "not under the law" to mean "do not have to obey the law" whereas it really means "not under the condemnation of the law".

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

While there are no laws against these fruits, there are laws against the works of the flesh like adultery, fornication, murders, thefts, Sabbath breaking, dishonoring parents, etc.

1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Yes, the law was made for murderers, thieves, Sabbath breakers, etc.

and you do now that our righteousness comes form Christ, so are you telling Jesus He s a sinner or is righteousness is not good enough for you? Its good enough for Him and its good enough for God.

Of course his righteousness is good enough for me. I am righteous because of his righteousness that clothes me. I do not abstain from adultery to be righteous. Nor do I keep the Sabbath to be righteous. You refuse to accept that and try to twist things around to make it seem like my Sabbath keeping is my attempt to become righteous. Evil indeed.

as for the Israelites and Jews

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Yes, we were imprisoned on death row before faith came. "Schoolmaster" is a faulty translation. Do some research and see the definition lexicons give that word. We are no longer under the care of a "paidagōgos", but are under the care of Yeshua. Once under his care, we do not break free of him so we can go commit adultery, steal and murder. Nor do we leave his care to go break the Sabbath.

Luk 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Luk 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

doesnt seem to be a lot

I agree. True faith is evidenced by works.

Luk 10:39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.
Luk 10:40 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.
Luk 10:41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:

some just far to busy.

God bless

Yes, she was far too busy with worldly endeavors, but if she would embrace Yeshua as her sister did and learn from his teachings, her mind and spirit would be correctly oriented and her life would begin to bear the fruit of good works, including obedience to YHWH's laws.

 

[mjrhealth]

You interpret "not under the law" to mean "do not have to obey the law" whereas it really means "not under the condemnation of the law".

Oh who said we are not, you know love, that thing that doesnt kill , maim, hurt, rape do bad things,

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

you should try it, but that you cannot do without Jesus, but it seems you have never tasted the new wine, still chasing after the old.

As for teh Sabbath, that is your choice. we rest from our works in Christ,

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

He cannot help you with what you are doing, it is all your own works.

Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
Heb 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

because

Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

but to those who dont believe they never will enter into His rest, and will continue in there own works.

Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

the best of all

God bless

 

[gadar perets]

Oh who said we are not, you know love, that thing that doesnt kill , maim, hurt, rape do bad things,

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

you should try it, but that you cannot do without Jesus, but it seems you have never tasted the new wine, still chasing after the old.

The law is fulfilled by "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself", but the law is broken when we don't love our neighbor as our self. If we steal from our neighbor, we do not fulfill love. If we cause our neighbor to work on the Sabbath, we do not fulfill love.

As for teh Sabbath, that is your choice. we rest from our works in Christ,

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

He cannot help you with what you are doing, it is all your own works.

The true saints of God will keep the commandments of God and the faith of Yeshua (Revelation 14:12). You think you walk in faith, but your lack of works say otherwise.

Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
Heb 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

This passage refers to the sins of Israel in the wilderness. He was grieved with them because they refused to believe and obey Him. Verse 11 refers to YHWH's words in Numbers 14:23. Here they are in context;

Num 14:22 Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice;
Num 14:23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:​

Ten incidents of tempting YHWH angered Him and prompted Him to sware that they would not enter His rest. Jewish writings list them; twice at the sea, Exo 14:11; twice concerning water, Exo 15:23; twice about manna, Exo 16:2; twice about quails, Exo 16:12; once by the calf, Exo 32:1; and once in the wilderness of Paran, Num 14:1. The ones in Exodus 16 refer to the testing of Israel via the miracle of manna to see if they would obey Him. They failed prompting Him to declare, "How long refuse you to keep my commandments and my laws?" (Exodus 16:28).

In other words, they did not enter His rest because they refused to believe His words and obey them, among which was their failing to obey His words concerning the Sabbath. This leads to the main question for you;

How long refuse YOU to keep my commandments and my laws?​

because

Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

but to those who dont believe they never will enter into His rest, and will continue in there own works.

Keeping the Sabbath is NOT "his own works" or "there (their) own works". It is a work of YHWH who commands it.

 

[bbyrd009]

The true saints of God will keep the commandments of God

if you just Quote some of the voluminous Scripture on this he goes away fwiw