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Featured Replacement Theology

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Naomi25, May 15, 2018.

  1. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Active Member

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    Enoch, your belief in a 1000 year kingdom on earth is destroyed in the light of Matthew 25:31-46

    Will you bend and twist the very clear truth presented, everlasting punishment and life eternal?

    Jesus Christ Returns In Final Judgment, Eternal Kingdom!


    Verse 1-2 Jesus Returns with the angels, judgment is set before the throne.

    Verse 34. The eternal kingdom is presented to the righteous.

    Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire.

    Verse 46 The righteous obtain "Eternal Life" and enter the "Eternal Kingdom" in verse 34

    Many are taught that Matthew 25:31-46sheep/goat judgment takes place to judge those worthy to enter a millennial kingdom on this earth?

    False, as this is the "Final Judgment"
    As verse 41 shows the wicked are judged to the "eternal lake of fire", and verse 46 shows the righteous obtain "eternal life".

    Matthew 25:31-46KJV
    31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
    37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
    38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
    39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
    40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
    42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
    43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
    44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
    45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
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  2. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Please I don't want to interrupt your conversation. truth7 have a point

    as to the return of Christ in the body, and the gathering, note this,

    Matthew 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    Matthew 24:31 "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    Notice ONLY the ELECT are gathered at this stage. not everyone.
     
  3. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Active Member

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    101G please do an "Honest" research on "Elect" in the New Testament, The Church Is The "Elect".

    Set aside John N. DARBY and C.I. Scofield, and the false teaching only Jews are God's "Elect"

    1 Thessalonians 1:4KJV
    Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

    1 Peter 1:2KJV
    Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

    1 Peter 5:13KJV
    The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.
     
  4. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    please excuse me where did I say the Jews only are the elect?
     
  5. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Active Member

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    Sry, Ok only the elect, got it

    101, When Jesus Christ Returns, It's The Final Judgment end of this world as seen in verse3, verses 51-52 Jesus Returns, weeping and gnashing of teeth, final judgment, lake of fire.

    Matthew 13:33-46, Matthew 24:29-31, and Matthew 25:31-46, is exactly the same event taught in parallel, second coming, final judgment, end of this world.

    Same Jesus, Same Angels, Same Weeping And Gnashing Of Teeth, All The Exact Same Event.

    Matthew 24:3KJV
    3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

    Matthew 24:29-31KJV
    29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    Matthew 24:50-51KJV
    50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
    51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites:
    there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Matthew 13:36-43KJV

    36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
    37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
    38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
    39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil;
    the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
    40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
    41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
    42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire:
    there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
    43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  6. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing to bend and twist. And I never do that with Scripture.

    After the judgment of the nations, the Lord Jesus Christ establishes His literal, visible Kingdom on earth. The ones who are deemed righteous enter into His Kingdom.

    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
     
  7. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Active Member

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    What are you going to do with "Eternal Righteous Bodies" walking around in your "Mortal Human Kingdom"?

    Your not presenting the "Eternal Kingdom" for those that enter "Eternal Life" in verse 46.

    You Can't see you error in believing this is a 1000 year earthly kingdom where mortal humans are present?

    The scripture clearly teaches "Life Eternal"

    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    Jesus Christ Returns In Final Judgment, Eternal Kingdom!

    Verse 1-2 Jesus Returns with the angels, judgment is set before the throne.

    Verse 34. The eternal kingdom is presented to the righteous.

    Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire.

    Verse 46 The righteous obtain "Eternal Life" and enter the "Eternal Kingdom" in verse 34

    Many are taught that Matthew 25:31-46sheep/goat judgment takes place to judge those worthy to enter a millennial kingdom on this earth?

    False, as this is the "Final Judgment"
    As verse 41 shows the wicked are judged to the "eternal lake of fire", and verse 46 shows the righteous obtain "eternal life".

    Matthew 25:31-46KJV
    31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
    37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
    38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
    39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
    40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
    42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
    43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
    44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
    45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
     
  8. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    This is the first time that I have seen you ask a really good question, and it is loaded by our understanding of when the events of the End Times Take Place.

    Enocch111's answer is based, I assume, on his understanding that Matt 25:31ff, is a near future event, whereas, Truth7t7's understanding is that, the passage Matthew 25:31FF, is the last event before the age of Eternity and, I assume based on what he has previously written, that that is going to happen in our near future as well.

    In which case, both of these views cannot be right at all.

    What we have on this forum is people arguing within the so called "grey area" between the Black (wrong understanding) and the White (correct understanding) boundaries of truth where whatever is said, it is the truth because of where they reside in the truth spectrum, more often than not on the fence, so to speak, between the right and wrong understanding of the End Times. It is an awfully crowded place to reside in understanding God's word, as it has, in reality, no width, in which to have a firm foundation upon which to stand. What will happen is that people who inhabit this fence will eventually tumble backwards into the Black area of untruth.

    Ezekiel 47:1-12, I have come to understand, speaks of a 4,000 year period of time, when the period of grace for man's salvation comes to and end after which time, the river of life at the end of this time spills over the end times escarpment into the quagmire below and bring healing to the landscape of the earth. It also speaks of the trees beside the river of life that that will sustain people by providing food and healing to the people who are willing to inhabit the river of life during this 4,000 year period.

    At present we are only around 2,950 or so years along the river of life with still another 1,050 or so years to go before the river of life spills over the escarpment onto the land below.

    An interesting observation to make about Ezekiel's record of this vision, is that he saw no diversion of the living waters from the river that dropped down to the land below the end times escarpment, before the river reaches the escarpment.

    What does this mean? That the "Rapture," the meeting of Christ in the air when He comes in all of His Glory, does not happen until the 4,000 years of this prophecy are fulfilled. That means that the saints do not by pass the tribulation periods that must occur before the end of these present ages.

    Now that is God's truth. Not mine, and is verified many times in the scriptures, if we have understanding to see.

    Shalom.
     
  9. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    There is no error at all. After the Millennium, there will be many who will be deceived by Satan and will therefore die. They will not be the ones with eternal life (who will continue to live on earth).

    And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. (Rev 20:7-9)

    Now we need to be clear that the Church (all the saints in the New Jerusalem) is distinct from the people who live on earth during and after the Millennium. The saints live and reign with Christ.
     
  10. Truth

    Truth Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, No there are a lot of souls that take what their Paid Professionals declare what it means, If my Minister says that's what it means,Well it must be True!!! Also I belong to this denomination and this is what we believe, and there is no room for any other teaching outside of My Church, We refuse to hear IT. We are Right and that's that!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Disciples were with " THE MASTER " and how many times did HE say, How long must I be with You?????
     
  11. Ac28

    Ac28 Active Member

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    It is not as simple as you think. What you said is true for people that were in the Jewish Acts church. It's Jewish because all saved Gentiles during Acts were grafted into Israel and were therefore part of Israel.

    These are the things back then, in the Acts church, that Israel had but the Gentiles didn't have. For example, Israel have the service of God. That means that a Gentile wasn't allowed to teach or preach the word of God. Since adoption was necessary back then for anyone to have an inheritance, only Israel was would have an inheritance
    Rom 9:4
    Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

    This completely changed in Acts 28:25-28, when Israel was temporarily set aside, i.e., ceased to exist as a nation, due to their failure to accept Christ. When this happened, since there was no Israel, all of the things associated with Israel were also set aside and none of these are available for us today - things like the Gifts of the Spirit, the Rapture, the Jewish Acts church, you name it. However, God gave us a brand new all-Gentile church, which is covered in detail is Paul's 7 new books that were all written after Israel was set aside at the end of Acts. These are Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon. In them, you will find in many verses that the new alll-Gentile church will spend eternity in Heaven. This is only time in the Bible that anyone has had a hope of Heaven. The New Jerusalem is not Heaven. It comes down out of Heaven and Dock on the New Earth.

    The blessings this new Gentile church will provide us Gentiles is Far, Far better that anything we would have gotten in the Acts Church. Start reading Ephesians and Colossians and you'll quickly see what I mean.
     
  12. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know who John Wimber is....but I'll check him out!
     
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  13. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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  14. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    So...you don't think Christ will physically return? I'm unsure how that will work, considering that the "grand plan" is for the earth to be made new, and for everyone...including Christ, is to live here. I'm assuming then, at some point, he will have to "return physically"...

    I think that the passage you refer to above is not telling us he is NOT returning physically, it is just warning us against being fooled against it happening before it does. Do not be fooled by pretenders, so to speak. Because there will be many pretenders. It tells us that when the true Jesus returns, everyone will see it, and we won't need to "be told" that it has occurred...we'll know instantly. Just like lightning that flashes miles away is still seen where we stand, Jesus, when he returns, will be seen where we are. No one will have to tell us...we will see and know. Therefore, if your "introduction" to Christ's return is someone going "hey...Jesus is back", we can automatically dismiss it. Word of mouth is an instant miss.
     
  15. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    I don't quite understand how the Jews get to come to Christ after he returns. Doesn't everything in scripture indicate that death or Christ's return mark the end of people's chance to "pick a side"...so to speak? While I see great numbers of Jews coming to Christ in Romans 11, I don't know that I've ever seen anything to suggests to me that they get that 'second chance' option. It has to be before the end of this Age.
     
  16. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    You will need to acquaint yourself with the Abrahamic Covenant as well as all the prophecies pertaining to a redeemed and restored kingdom of Israel on earth in order to see why all of this would occur AFTER the second coming of Christ.

    At present we are in what is known as the Church Age. God makes no distinction between unsaved Jews and Gentiles outside the Church, and neither is there any Jew nor Greek within the Church.

    But the Church Age will end with the Rapture, and "the time of Jacob's trouble" will begin after that. This is for all the unsaved Jews around the world, and is known as the Tribulation which lasts for 3 1/2 years. Following that will be the Great Tribulation (another 3 1/2 years approx, since it will be shortened). During this time there will be a believing remnant of Jews, and after this time Christ will return to earth. Following that He will gather all the Jews to Israel, and a total of 2/3rd will be saved.

    Your reference to Romans 11 fits it right here:
    25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. [concluded by the Resurrection/Rapture]
    26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: [the second coming of Christ]
    27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. [please study the prophecy of Ezekiel]
    28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
    29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
    30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
    31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
    32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
     
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  17. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    It would appear that you believe that there is one Jewish Church and one Gentile Church. But that would make it two churches. On the other hand Scripture is very clear that there is only ONE Church (all redeemed Jews and Gentiles) which is both the Body, the Bride, and the Building of Christ.

    For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Cor 12:13)
     
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  18. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Active Member

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    You now have New Jerusalem floating around with the eternal righteous, while a millennium is taking place on this earth?
     
  19. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Active Member

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    When Jesus Christ Touches Down On The Mount Of Olives, This Existing Earth Is Replaced With The Eternal New Creation As Seen Below In Zech 14

    Verses 1-5 Battle Of Armageddon, Jesus Second Coming, New Creation Being Revealed As Mount Olivet Splits.

    Verses 6-7 Eternal Light In The Kingdom

    Verse 8 The Eternal River Of Life

    Verse 10 The New Creation The Plain Is Lifted Up

    Verse 12 The Lord's Fire In Final Judgment, Consumes All Flesh.

    Zechariah 14 King James Version (KJV)
    14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
    2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
    3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
    4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
    5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
    6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
    7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
    8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
    9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
    10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
    11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
    12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
     
  20. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Not "floating around" but definitely in place, while there is a Millennium on earth. Why is that a problem?
     
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