Reply: Call no man father

[FHII]

Here's the thing: when folks "want to back to the original language" they are really looking for a way out. One single word can mean different things. But the context of the verse dictates the proper use of that word.

I lime going back to the original, but its not a case where its a buffet and you get to pick and choose what you want a word to mean.

Bo whwre in 1 Cor 415 was Paul claiming he was a father! He was saying he preached the gospel to the Corinthians and brought them forth as Christians. It really isn't hard to understand.

Jesus said call no man father, but he was talking on a spiritual level. Paul NEVER claimed tl be the father, just that he preached the gospel and THAT made them sons.

Anything else is just a game of saying, "Ket me tell you why the Bible doesn't mean what it says".

 

[theefaith]

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Peter, Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!


Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

 

[FHII]

Jn 15:5

Jesus is the vine, and others are the branches. I agree.

Paul and Peter and the rest lf the Apostles were branches... Not the vine.

No argument from me.

 

[FHII]

makes Peter, Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

No it doesn't. They pointed to Christ.

So I will ask you what I asked BOL.... Why did Christ say not to call any man Father? You only seem to be interested in proving Jesus didn't really mean what he said.

 

[theefaith]

Here's the thing: when folks "want to back to the original language" they are really looking for a way out. One single word can mean different things. But the context of the verse dictates the proper use of that word.

I lime going back to the original, but its not a case where its a buffet and you get to pick and choose what you want a word to mean.

Bo whwre in 1 Cor 415 was Paul claiming he was a father! He was saying he preached the gospel to the Corinthians and brought them forth as Christians. It really isn't hard to understand.

Jesus said call no man father, but he was talking on a spiritual level. Paul NEVER claimed tl be the father, just that he preached the gospel and THAT made them sons.

Anything else is just a game of saying, "Ket me tell you why the Bible doesn't mean what it says".

All scripture is inspired
Not language not context

explicitly Paul states Timothy is my son in the faith
MY SON
SPIRITUAL in the faith
Even if he did not claim it
It still makes Paul spiritual father

 

[theefaith]

Jesus is the vine, and others are the branches. I agree.

Paul and Peter and the rest lf the Apostles were branches... Not the vine.

No argument from me.

I meant the part that says “apart from me you can do nothing”

in other words

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

What Christ did the church (apostles) now do

 

[theefaith]

Christ and his church are one
Attack the church and you attack Christ
Acts 9:4

 

[theefaith]

No it doesn't. They pointed to Christ.

So I will ask you what I asked BOL.... Why did Christ say not to call any man Father? You only seem to be interested in proving Jesus didn't really mean what he said.

they established Christ in the whole world and all ages and continue to do so
The universal church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles

 

[FHII]

All scripture is inspired
Not language not context

Right. Context isn't important. Sure.

So sad you don't apply that to Matthew 23:9. All of a sudden, comtext (even when it doesn't exist) is important.

What do you do with that verse, by the way?

 

[FHII]

I meant the part that says “apart from me you can do nothing”

in other words

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

What Christ did the church (apostles) now do

But forget the rest of the verse, right? Forget context, right?

I agree with the rest of the verse. How it supports your notion that Matthew 23:9 isn't true is beyond me.

 

[theefaith]

Right. Context isn't important. Sure.

So sad you don't apply that to Matthew 23:9. All of a sudden, comtext (even when it doesn't exist) is important.

What do you do with that verse, by the way?

Call no man father

Typical fundamentalist misunderstandings!

Matt 23:9
Call no man Father?

Is this an absolute requirement?
Or is Our Savior condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?

God calls men father!

Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Jesus calls men father!

Jn 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

Mary calls men father!

Lk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Peter calls men father!

Acts3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

The stephen calls men father!

Acts 7 Stephen quotes the fathers over and over!

The Bible calls men father!

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


Then there is spiritual fathers!

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Peter, Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

Isa 22 the administrator of the kingdom is called father, so the same for Peter, the apostles, and their successors!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!

 

[FHII]

they established Christ in the whole world and all ages and continue to do so
The universal church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles

Founded BY Christ... I agree... Through the Apostles I agree. Not By the Apostles. They pointed to the Father; they never claimed to be the Father.

 

[theefaith]

But forget the rest of the verse, right? Forget context, right?

I agree with the rest of the verse. How it supports your notion that Matthew 23:9 isn't true is beyond me.

I also but that was the pertinent part to my point

 

[FHII]

Call no man father

Typical fundamentalist misunderstandings!

Matt 23:9
Call no man Father?

Is this an absolute requirement?
Or is Our Savior condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?

God calls men father!

Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Jesus calls men father!

Jn 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

Mary calls men father!

Lk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Peter calls men father!

Acts3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

The stephen calls men father!

Acts 7 Stephen quotes the fathers over and over!

The Bible calls men father!

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


Then there is spiritual fathers!

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Peter, Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

Isa 22 the administrator of the kingdom is called father, so the same for Peter, the apostles, and their successors!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!

What a circle jerk... I already answered all this. This is a lame attempt to say the Bible doesn't mean what it really says. You never answer why Jesus said it, you just try to refute what he said.

 

[theefaith]

Founded BY Christ... I agree... Through the Apostles I agree. Not By the Apostles. They pointed to the Father; they never claimed to be the Father.

It’s God’s work
Christ’s church
Of course

it is Christ working thru his church (the apostles) Christ and his church are one

vicariously

 

[FHII]

I also but that was the pertinent part to my point

ysaid.yet it supports mine. Jesus is the branch, not Paul.

 

[FHII]

It’s God’s work
Christ’s church
Of course

it is Christ working thru his church (the apostles) Christ and his church are one

vicariously

Then dont call the leaders "Father".

 

[theefaith]

What a circle jerk... I already answered all this. This is a lame attempt to say the Bible doesn't mean what it really says. You never answer why Jesus said it, you just try to refute what he said.

It is not always absolute!
There are generalizations

for example:

Rom 3:23 All have sinned...
have all sinned?

Matt 3:5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,

Did every single person go out to him?

 

[FHII]

It is not always absolute!
There are generalizations

for example:

Rom 3:23 All have sinned...
have all sinned?

Matt 3:5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,

Did every single person go out to him?

Neither of these have anything to do with the topic.

Do you believe Matthew 23:9 was a generalization? Obviously you do. So, what else do you not believe that the Bible says? Maybe matthew 16:16 is a generalization.

 

[theefaith]

ysaid.yet it supports mine. Jesus is the branch, not Paul.

but Jesus ain’t here
He ascended to heaven
Sent the apostles to govern and teach etc.

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments the abundant life of grace!



What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!