Resurrection on earth

[Bob Estey]

ha good point lol

thank you

 

[bbyrd009]

thank you

so, might be better to say that it was appropriated for Him

 

[Bob Estey]

so, might be better to say that it was appropriated for Him

I think the title (Christ) belongs to him. Is that what we are talking about?

 

[rwb]

Regarding Jehovah's loyal servants who preceded the Christians, the inspired letter to the Hebrews, written about 61 AD, says:

Heb. 11:13 In faith all of these died, although they did not receive the fulfillment of the promises; but they saw them from a distance and welcomed them and publicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land. 14 For those who speak in such a way make it evident that they are earnestly seeking a place of their own. 15 And yet, if they had kept remembering the place from which they had departed, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they are reaching out for a better place, that is, one belonging to heaven. Therefore, God is not ashamed of them, to be called on as their God, for he has prepared a city for them
(...) 39 And yet all of these, although they received a favorable witness because of their faith, did not obtain the fulfillment of the promise.

If in the first century those God's loyal worshipers (like Abel, Enoch, Noah, the patriarchs, Moses, the judges of Israel, Samuel, the prophets like Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, etc, the just kings like David, Josiah, etc, etc , etc.) had not received the fulfillment of the promises

... when and where will they receive it?

They had not yet received the promise of physical resurrection. None will be resurrected to immortality and incorruptible until all are made perfect together when the last trump sounds. These Old Covenant faithful saints did indeed receive the "better promises" they chose to die for.

Hebrews 8:6 (KJV) But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Hebrews 11:32-40 (KJV) And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

These all died in faith looking for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. The city they longed for, heavenly Jerusalem the city God has prepared for His faithful saints.

Hebrews 11:13-16 (KJV) These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

These saints died in faith, looking for the promise of a home in heaven. This promise was fulfilled after Christ's resurrection. Before He ascended to heaven He first descended to the lower parts of the earth, the place of the faithful dead, known as Abraham's Bosom. Christ freed them from death, and took them with Him to heaven when He ascended there.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Now the promise these Old Covenant faithful saints wait for as spirit souls in heaven is the bodily resurrection to immortality and incorruptibility that shall come in the hour coming, when the last trump sounds and time on this earth shall be no more. Then reunited with their eternal spirit they will once more be complete living soul, fitted for everlasting life on the new earth.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

[bbyrd009]

I think the title (Christ) belongs to him. Is that what we are talking about?

well, i guess most ppl think that? But it was an Olde, pretty well-worn title by then; likely chosen a bit tongue-in-cheek, for a comparison i think? Since all the other saviors, weren't? maybe? something like that anyway

anyway Pharaohs, Chinese Emperors, Caesars, popes even, all used the title

 

[ElieG12]

This is what the Scriptures teach:

1) Daniel has not yet received the fulfillment of what was promised to him

"But as for you, go on to the end. You will rest, but you will stand up for your lot at the end of the days" (Dan. 12:13).

2) David did not ascend to heaven at any time:

Acts 2:25 For David says about him: ‘I keep Jehovah constantly in front of me, for he is at my right hand that I may never be shaken. 26 On this account my heart became cheerful and my tongue rejoiced greatly. And I will reside in hope; 27 because you will not leave me in the Grave, nor will you allow your loyal one to see corruption. 28 You have made life’s ways known to me; you will fill me with great joy in your presence.’[Psal. 16:8-11]
29 “Men, brothers, it is permissible to speak with freeness of speech to you about the family head David, that he died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Because he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath that he would seat one of his offspring on his throne, 31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he forsaken in the Grave nor did his flesh see corruption. 32 God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand 35 until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.” [Psal. 110:1]’
36 Therefore, let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you executed on a stake.”

... and those two points are enough to understand that what you are saying before is contrary to what the Scripture is saying there.

Do you really think you can freely teach things without first learning everything you need to know before jumping to personal conclusions and pretending it's God's Word by using one or two isolated Bible texts? What do you think God thinks about that practice?

 

[ElieG12]

well, i guess most ppl think that? But it was an Olde, pretty well-worn title by then; likely chosen a bit tongue-in-cheek, for a comparison i think? Since all the other saviors, weren't? maybe? something like that anyway

anyway Pharaohs, Chinese Emperors, Caesars, popes even, all used the title

Why are you flooding my thread with nonsensical posts, not even quoting a biblical text related with the topic, and derailing the whole thread?

Nothing better to do?

 

[rwb]

This is what the Scriptures teach:

1) Daniel has not yet received the fulfillment of what was promised to him

"But as for you, go on to the end. You will rest, but you will stand up for your lot at the end of the days" (Dan. 12:13).

2) David did not ascend to heaven at any time:

Acts 2:25 For David says about him: ‘I keep Jehovah constantly in front of me, for he is at my right hand that I may never be shaken. 26 On this account my heart became cheerful and my tongue rejoiced greatly. And I will reside in hope; 27 because you will not leave me in the Grave, nor will you allow your loyal one to see corruption. 28 You have made life’s ways known to me; you will fill me with great joy in your presence.’[Psal. 16:8-11]
29 “Men, brothers, it is permissible to speak with freeness of speech to you about the family head David, that he died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Because he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath that he would seat one of his offspring on his throne, 31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he forsaken in the Grave nor did his flesh see corruption. 32 God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand 35 until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.” [Psal. 110:1]’
36 Therefore, let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you executed on a stake.”

... and those two points are enough to understand that what you are saying before is contrary to what the Scripture is saying there.

Do you really think you can freely teach things without first learning everything you need to know before jumping to personal conclusions and pretending it's God's Word by using one or two isolated Bible texts? What do you think God thinks about that practice?

As I've already explained none of the Old Covenant faithful saints have yet received the promise of physical body resurrected immortal and in corruptible. Also, as I've already explained the Old Covenant faithful saints did indeed receive the better promise when they ascended with Christ to heaven. Why do you not address the verses I've presented to prove what Scripture says? If you cannot biblically refute what I have said, perhaps it is because you are trying to force Scripture to affirm your unbiblical doctrines? Perhaps it is you that needs to learn truth before attempting to teach your unbiblical doctrines.

 

[ElieG12]

(...) Also, as I've already explained the Old Covenant faithful saints did indeed receive the better promise when they ascended with Christ to heaven. (...)

I don't see any biblical demostration of this that you say you "explained". Maybe you feel you did ... Believe me, you didn't explain anything at all; you just said what you believe.

As I just explained to you with two biblical samples, no one who lived before Christ is in heaven.

Dan. 12.13; Acts 2:34

 

[rwb]

I don't see any biblical demostration of this that you say you "explained". Maybe you feel you did ... Believe me, you didn't explain anything at all; you just said what you believe.

As I just explained to you with two biblical samples, no one who lived before Christ is in heaven.

Dan. 12.13; Acts 2:34

Still haven't addressed the verses. I'm not at all surprised. It's hard to refute truth from the Word of God!

 

[ElieG12]

Still haven't addressed the verses. I'm not at all surprised. It's hard to refute truth from the Word of God!

No need. None of them says what you say.

But you are seing this clearly:

Acts 2:34 For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand ..."

... and you still keep trying to deny what it says there.

Do you really mind what the Bible teaches?

 

[Bob Estey]

well, i guess most ppl think that? But it was an Olde, pretty well-worn title by then; likely chosen a bit tongue-in-cheek, for a comparison i think? Since all the other saviors, weren't? maybe? something like that anyway

anyway Pharaohs, Chinese Emperors, Caesars, popes even, all used the title

I have never that before. I know there were lots of people called "Jesus."

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Great point maam. God's gift to man has always been life eternal. Heaven only opened as a necessity, and only those chosen to go will go. God created the earth for physical creatures.

Isaiah 55:11 teaches us that whatever God purposes to do it will be accomplished. God's purpose will be fulfilled nothing or no one will stop it.
What was God's purpose when he created earth, and put Adam on it? Was it God's purpose for Adam to die, or did God want Adam to live forever on the planet he put him on? The scriptures tell us when God created the first human pair he told them to be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it.(Genesis 1:28) Genesis 2:17 teaches us that God told Adam not to eat from the forbidden tree. God told Adam if he did he would die. So obviously God didn't want Adam to eat from the forbidden tree, which means it wasn't God's purpose for Adam and Eve to die. It wasn't God's purpose for this sinful world in which people get sick and die, or grow and die, that all the wars, crimes, deseases, all the things that make up this wicked world we live in wasn't God's purpose. So although Adam and Eve sinned and this wicked world we live in came into existence because of it, doesn't mean it was God's will or God's purpose . So it was God's purpose to have perfect sinless humans who were without sinful nature to live on this earth forever, no humans getting old and dying no getting sick and dying, no wars, no crimes, etc. Since Isaiah 55:11 tells us that God's purpose can't be stopped then although we are living in a wicked world today, God promised a seed that would undo everything the serpent has caused. So God's purpose of having perfect sinless humans who no longer have a sinful nature will happen one day. The majority of humans that God has judged to be worthy of eternal life will live on planet earth which God will turned into a paradise. God has chosen some humans that he has judged as righteous to a heavenly calling. This will be a small flock from among righteous humans. They will be the ones who will get a resurrection like Jesus and have immortality and inherit incorruption. They will be the ones who will b Kings, Judges, and priests with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic Kingdom and will rule over the earth. So Gods purpose for this planet to be a paradise with righteous humans living on it with no human being getting sick and dying or getting old and dying no crimes being committed, no wars either, no hunger etc will happen. This was Gods purpose right from the beginning when he created earth and put humans on it, and this will happen one day.

 

[bbyrd009]

I have never that before. I know there were lots of people called "Jesus."

yeh, i guess it was the most popular male name back then? (and Nazareth was uninhabited in that century, apparently) Jesus, of Nazareth
And “Savior, Christ” was a more or less universal title claimed by pretty much every ruler, ever
but as you say Jesus did not testify of Himself that way

anyway it is Christ Who resurrects, wouldnt you say?
and i wouldnt be waiting for some future tomorrow for that
“buried with Him in death, raised to new life in Him”
I came that you might have life, more abundantly

 

[Bob Estey]

yeh, i guess it was the most popular male name back then? (and Nazareth was uninhabited in that century, apparently) Jesus, of Nazareth
And “Savior, Christ” was a more or less universal title claimed by pretty much every ruler, ever
but as you say Jesus did not testify of Himself that way

anyway it is Christ Who resurrects, wouldnt you say?
and i wouldnt be waiting for some future tomorrow for that
“buried with Him in death, raised to new life in Him”
I came that you might have life, more abundantly

I believe it is Christ who resurrects, though some would argue Christ is the Son, and that the Father resurrects, I think.

 

[bbyrd009]

Why "Jehovah" and why not "Yahweh Elohim"? Obviously we have another JW in our midst, sowing spiritual confusion.

BTW "Resurrection on earth" is meaningless. The resurrection of the saints is followed by all them being taken up to Heaven, just like when the two prophets during the reign of the Antichrist are resurrected and taken up to Heaven.

And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. (Rev 11:11,12)

Following the Resurrection/Rapture all the saints will be taken up to Heaven. "Come up hither" is exactly where God wants them.

“death, more abundantly”

 

[rwb]

No need. None of them says what you say.

But you are seing this clearly:

Acts 2:34 For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand ..."

... and you still keep trying to deny what it says there.

Do you really mind what the Bible teaches?

I understand Elie why you are not able to refute. You cannot refute what you do not know. You see yourself as a teacher of the Word, but I see you an indoctrinated clone, created by your clan. You've been taught to follow the teachings of the clan, but you have never been taught, or even learned for yourself how to study the Word of God and determine for yourself what is truth.

David, like the verse you quote says, has not yet physically ascended into the heavens bodily and will not until all the foes of Christ have been destroyed. David has ascended not into "the heavens" as he will when the last trump sounds, but his spirit has indeed ascended a living soul into heaven itself. Because Christ rescued his life (spirit) from the dead and took David spiritually alive with Him to heaven. Else David could not sit at the right hand of Christ, where He now is a living soul in heaven, unless David had ascended to heaven with the Lord. And he will physically ascend into the HEAVENS at the last day, when the last trump sounds.

Acts 2:34-35 (KJV) For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

Your clan apparently hasn't taught you how Scripture in CONTEXT is the proper way to learn truth from the Word of God.

 

[bbyrd009]

Why are you flooding my thread with nonsensical posts, not even quoting a biblical text related with the topic, and derailing the whole thread?

Nothing better to do?

i dont have a problem with different perspectives of Scripture fwiw, and i wish you the best of luck

 

[ElieG12]

I understand Elie why you are not able to refute. You cannot refute what you do not know. You see yourself as a teacher of the Word, but I see you an indoctrinated clone, created by your clan. You've been taught to follow the teachings of the clan, but you have never been taught, or even learned for yourself how to study the Word of God and determine for yourself what is truth.

David, like the verse you quote says, has not yet physically ascended into the heavens bodily and will not until all the foes of Christ have been destroyed. David has ascended not into "the heavens" as he will when the last trump sounds, but his spirit has indeed ascended a living soul into heaven itself. Because Christ rescued his life (spirit) from the dead and took David spiritually alive with Him to heaven. Else David could not sit at the right hand of Christ, where He now is a living soul in heaven, unless David had ascended to heaven with the Lord. And he will physically ascend into the HEAVENS at the last day, when the last trump sounds.

Acts 2:34-35 (KJV) For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

Your clan apparently hasn't taught you how Scripture in CONTEXT is the proper way to learn truth from the Word of God.

Wow, are you "listening" to yourself?

David did not ascend to heaven ... but David did ascend to heaven ... ????

Do you seriously not realize how much verbiage it takes to cover up the fact that you are denying the Scriptures?

 

[rwb]

Wow, are you "listening" to yourself?

David did not ascend to heaven ... but David did ascend to heaven ... ????

Do you seriously not realize how much verbiage it takes to cover up the fact that you are denying the Scriptures?

You don't even have understanding of the composition of humankind? Wow indeed Elie! Looks like your clan has deceived you again!