Resurrection

[CoreIssue]

God is Spirit....Jesus is part of God....so also Spirit. But Jesus would also come among us by taking bodily form from time to time...like the case of Melchizedek.

That's a thought.

Here you go again.

Melchizedek was not Jesus Christ. Jesus did not exist until the incarnation.

More Gnosticism.

I was curious, so I looked up the meaning of your username.

Do you honestly see yourself as a great teacher and ruler as the name means?

 

[bbyrd009]

Here you go again.

Melchizedek was not Jesus Christ. Jesus did not exist until the incarnation.

Knew that was the answer I would get.Please don't take this next statement wrong,if God knows who would chose Him ,what's the point of this age?

Now back to how God knew him(Esau)

God hated Esau because of something he did

Romans 9:11 "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him That calleth;"

Then when the twins, Jacob and Esau were still in their mother's womb, neither having had the chance of doing either good or evil, God called one of those unborn babies to service. This deals with the election according to the purpose of God in His Will. The reason was to accomplish the writings of these Scriptures. It wasn't an accident that Jacob was loved and Esau was hated, nor was it an accident that you saw the light and repented. God has His hand on all creation and all of His children. God intercedes in the lives of His children, and there are no accidents when it comes to the actions of God.

Romans 9:13 "As it is written "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

It was written by the Prophet Malachi in Malachi 1:2, 3; "I have loved you, saith the Lord Yet ye say, `Wherein hast Thou loved us?' Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob," "And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains [nations] and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness."

While Esau was a small embryo in his mother Rebecca's womb, God hated Esau. If it sounds a little bit unfair, then you missed the point of the entire eighth chapter where God stipulated where He foreknew those that overcame at Satan's rebellion in the first earth age. Don't you think that God is judge enough to know who to hate and who to love.

Esau had some very bad habits and one of those actions was to show disrespect for the heritage that God had given him. First of all Esau married out of His race of people, which God forbid. This made it impossible for Christ to be born through Esau because of the mixture and corruption of Esau's bloodline. Secondly Esau placed the value of the Abrahamic covenant at one bowl of red mush, what an insult. Esau put no value on the heritage of God, or any part of God's Word and promises. Esau did not wish to be an heir of our Heavenly Father.

If God knew all that would choose Him,why didn't He kill satan and all those that followed him(satan)at that time?

Now let's deal with this word (know)for that we go to Jeremiah

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

Before Jeremiah was even concieved within his mothers womb, God is telling Jeremiah that He knew him, and before Jeremiah was born, God sanctified him, which is to set Jeremiah apart for God's mission. God ordained Jeremiah as a prophet, not only to Judah, by to the nations also. When we see the word "Nations" it is directed to the Gentile nations also. Jeremiah was a prophet to all nations.

Again (IMHO)if God knew, for example satan would turn against Him,why did He create him?I don't have the mind of God so please don't accuse me of that either.But that would be cruel,and I know my Father is not

so Jesus did not exist until incarnated, but Easu was hated before he was born?

 

[CoreIssue]

so Jesus did not exist until incarnated, but Easu was hated before he was born?

It is the same answer with both. Both foreknowledge.

God knew Christ would be incarnated and got knew when Esau grew up you would hate things he would do.

 

[Enoch111]

Jesus did not need to take away the flesh body to defeat death, because that is how it is with all of the dead. Their bodies go back to the dust of the earth, while their soul body returns to the Father that gave it at conception.

You are manufacturing your own theology here. But what we find in Scripture is very simple:

1. The Bible clearly states that Christ was resurrected after three day and three nights in the tomb.

2. Christ was resurrected in the same body which was crucified, having the marks of the nails in his hands and feet.

3. At the same time the resurrected body of Christ was a transformed, immortal, glorious body. A "spiritual body" in the sense that the ordinary limitations on human bodies were absent. He could enter rooms without needing to go through doors. And He ascended all the way to Heaven without any difficulty.

4. After the Resurrection/Rapture of the saints, all of God's children will have bodies similar to that of Christ.

 

[CoreIssue]

Saying what Enoch said slightly differently.

The body of Christ on the cross is the one that was resurrected.

It was a sacrificial lamb that was presented to God the father in heaven. Anything else was of no value.

That body was glorified.

Our bodies will be resurrected to the flesh we have on the earth.

Spirits of the dead will descend with Christ that the rapture and reenter those resurrected bodies,

The living and dead will ascend with Christ and be glorified and rewarded.

Even the damned are resurrected in physical bodies. Their spirits are in hell and will join our bodies for the white throne judgment.

Two resurrections clearly stated in the Bible. The first for the blessed lasting from the rapture to the destruction of the earth. The second for the damned at the end of time.

 

[marks]

so Jesus did not exist until incarnated, but Easu was hated before he was born?

Jumping in here . . . my thinking is the Angel of the Lord, Messenger of YHWH, has always existed, and at a given time was incarnated, and named Jesus.

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

Saying what Enoch said slightly differently.

The body of Christ on the cross is the one that was resurrected.

It was a sacrificial lamb that was presented to God the father in heaven. Anything else was of no value.

That body was glorified.

Our bodies will be resurrected to the flesh we have on the earth.

Spirits of the dead will descend with Christ that the rapture and reenter those resurrected bodies,

The living and dead will ascend with Christ and be glorified and rewarded.

Even the damned are resurrected in physical bodies. Their spirits are in hell and will join our bodies for the white throne judgment.

Two resurrections clearly stated in the Bible. The first for the blessed lasting from the rapture to the destruction of the earth. The second for the damned at the end of time.

ok this is a great redux of what we are taught, but don't be surprised if it does not work out literally like you believe it will imo ok. Don't get me wrong I don't know, but I bet all this will take on a diff aura when your def of Eternal changes, and you maybe recall what Preach said as you were coming up out of that ritual water?

I know this one is really counterintuitive to you right now, but
No Son of Man may die for another's sins...was not repealed or anything!

 

[bbyrd009]

You are manufacturing your own theology here. But what we find in Scripture is very simple:

1. The Bible clearly states that Christ was resurrected after three day and three nights in the tomb.

2. Christ was resurrected in the same body which was crucified, having the marks of the nails in his hands and feet.

3. At the same time the resurrected body of Christ was a transformed, immortal, glorious body. A "spiritual body" in the sense that the ordinary limitations on human bodies were absent. He could enter rooms without needing to go through doors. And He ascended all the way to Heaven without any difficulty.

4. After the Resurrection/Rapture of the saints, all of God's children will have bodies similar to that of Christ.

^
Jesus did not die for your sins, at least in the manner we are indoctrinated

 

[CoreIssue]

ok this is a great redux of what we are taught, but don't be surprised if it does not work out literally like you believe it will imo ok. Don't get me wrong I don't know, but I bet all this will take on a diff aura when your def of Eternal changes, and you maybe recall what Preach said as you were coming up out of that ritual water?

I just started a thread asking what is eternity.

 

[Enoch111]

^
Jesus did not die for your sins, at least in the manner we are indoctrinated

Well bbyrd009, perhaps you should give us a synopsis of your "new and improved" theology.

 

[bbyrd009]

Well bbyrd009, perhaps you should give us a synopsis of your "new and improved" theology.

i came that you might have life, more abundantly
No one has ever gone up to heaven
There is only One Immortal
He again fixes a certain day, "today"
We do not yet know what we will become

I guess Christ dies for our sins all right, but if you are convinced that you can say some special words and maybe become an immortal and go up to heaven after you have died then you prolly aren't going to like what that really means.

One can either quote Paul saying "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" or they cannot, and "Eternal" means either "forever" or " a space of time, an age," and the one always goes with the other I guess

 

[Bible_Gazer]

John 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

So some will never die and be resurrected
From the grave. That is the best way to go in my opinion.
One day some will be changed in a moment at his coming. Get a new heavenly body, neither Male or female, be like the angels.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Two resurrections clearly stated in the Bible. The first for the blessed lasting from the rapture to the destruction of the earth. The second for the damned at the end of time.

No, not two resurrections, but one resurrection of two kinds of dead, one the saved, the other the wicked.

 

[CoreIssue]

No, not two resurrections, but one resurrection of two kinds of dead, one the saved, the other the wicked.

Revelation 20:4-5 New International Version (NIV)
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. Theya]">[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Revelation 20:4-5 New International Version (NIV)
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. Theya]">[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection

Not so easy though ... I THINK ... If you read, "they LIVED AND REIGNED thousand years : THIS The First Resurrection while the rest of the [sinners in their sins] dead, did not come to life" -- did not come to Christ, were not re-born, received not part in the First Resurrection.

 

[CoreIssue]

Not so easy though ... I THINK ... If you read, "they LIVED AND REIGNED thousand years : THIS The First Resurrection while the rest of the [sinners in their sins] dead, did not come to life" -- did not come to Christ, were not re-born, received not part in the First Resurrection.

It specifically defines those who reign with him as being the tribulation martyrs.

But the church has already been raptured and been in the wedding supper of the Lamb. Now the church enters eternity.

But that's not all the saints that will live and die. There are more in MK. But they are not church. They are Israel and Gentiles.

Peter talks about another thief in the night at the end of time just before the Earth is destroyed. So you have the pretrib rapture and the rapture at the end of the MK.

But the unsaved are only resurrected at the destruction of the heavens and earth. They go to the white throne judgment and then into the lake of fire for eternity.

The Saints never go to the white throne judgment.

One rapture lasting 1000 years for the Saints. One instantaneous for the damned.

That is two resurrections, which the passage clearly states.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

It specifically defines those who reign with him as being the tribulation martyrs.

But the church has already been raptured and been in the wedding supper of the Lamb. Now the church enters eternity.

But that's not all the saints that will live and die. There are more in MK. But they are not church. They are Israel and Gentiles.

Peter talks about another thief in the night at the end of time just before the Earth is destroyed. So you have the pretrib rapture and the rapture at the end of the MK.

But the unsaved are only resurrected at the destruction of the heavens and earth. They go to the white throne judgment and then into the lake of fire for eternity.

The Saints never go to the white throne judgment.

One rapture lasting 1000 years for the Saints. One instantaneous for the damned.

That is two resurrections, which the passage clearly states.

The passage clearly states? No, Corelssue absolutely incomprehensible to me, and for everyone to see, totally incoherently, TRIED to state.

<It specifically defines those who reign with him as being the tribulation martyrs.>

Even so, "the devil was bound the thousand years" being "cast out of heaven upon the earth" when Jesus had Died and Resurrected; and the Saved were "quickened together with Christ .. and raised up together and made to SIT (rule) together in heavenly rulership together in Christ, that in the ages to come - "the Thousand Years" - He might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness towards us through Jesus Christ" --"us" - "those who received part in (and) lived again (were born again) this the First Resurrection".

The Elect "sat upon thrones and ruled with Christ the thousand years" AMIDST AND DESPITE their tribulation(s) while the devil was bound by "the angel" or "message" or "Gospel of Jesus Christ" which they proclaimed. It was their rule with Christ, through their Gospel Message, "their Witness" of Christ, that "bound the devil".

Then also, it does not only, <specifically define those as being the tribulation martyrs .. who reign with him> or it specifically defines those only "who were beheaded for the Witness of Jesus". What about those burned on the stake, or assassinated, or starved etc. <as being the tribulation martyrs>?

It does not specify specifically, that is, only, martyrs, at all. Because it says, "I saw the souls of those who had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark." That looks like a rather peaceful and prosperous time to have lived in - a peaceful time of tolerance and an... THE era specifically of and for the rule of those who "lived and reigned with Christ this, the First Resurrection Thousand Years" FROM CHRIST ROSE FROM THE DEAD UNTIL THE RESURRECTION OF ALL THE DEAD in the Day of his Coming and Judgement. Sela, Amen, Come Lord Jesus, come quickly!

 

[CoreIssue]

The passage clearly states? No, Corelssue absolutely incomprehensible to me, and for everyone to see, totally incoherently, TRIED to state.

What translation are you using that it isn't clear to you?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

What translation are you using that it isn't clear to you?

As I said, you don't use or give a translation; you quote you.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

That is two resurrections, which the passage clearly states.

The passage clearly states one of the two Resurrections, "The First Resurrection .. this the Thousand Years" therefore the spiritual rebirth into the Body of Christ's Own. The passage mentions no word of the 'second' or literal Resurrection on the Last Day.