Rethinking God

[Brakelite]

Satan LOVES it when his messengers convince people that there is no everlasting fire!

Where is the future lake of fire, into which the devil, the false prophet etc are to be thrown?

 

[Jack]

Where is the future lake of fire, into which the devil, the false prophet etc are to be thrown?

Where? lol

You think that matters? You don't want to find out!

Revelation 20:15
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Brakelite]

Where? lol

You think that matters? You don't want to find out!

Revelation 20:15
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

The Scripture tells us where. And yes, it matters.
Fire destroys. Man is not immortal. In any sense of the word. Eternal life is given as a gift to the righteous. Sinners die. It's all so very simple. Yet you, for some strange reason, prefer a God of vindictive judgement the justice of which can never be satisfied. Do you realise that? If eternal torment is true, and sinners suffer for ever without any end, then justice is never satisfied. God has no mercy. He is fashioned as a dictator, a tyrant, and fraud the likes of which earthly tyrants like Hitler could never even dream of.
Sinners suffer in the lake of fire, yes. But eventually they die. The amount of suffering is equitable to the evil they committed. But you would have it that a 12yo in the first century after Christ who sinned little but turned away from Christ's offer of mercy through unbelief, suffers longer than the worst of evil kings in the 20th century who tortured thousands, murdered, raped, and destroyed relentlessly for decades and showed no remorse. I'm sorry, but the doctrine of eternal torment is an atrocious almost blasphemous belief that belongs in the waste bins of history.

 

[Jack]

The Scripture tells us where. And yes, it matters.
Fire destroys. Man is not immortal. In any sense of the word. Eternal life is given as a gift to the righteous. Sinners die. It's all so very simple. Yet you, for some strange reason, prefer a God of vindictive judgement the justice of which can never be satisfied. Do you realise that? If eternal torment is true, and sinners suffer for ever without any end, then justice is never satisfied. God has no mercy. He is fashioned as a dictator, a tyrant, and fraud the likes of which earthly tyrants like Hitler could never even dream of.
Sinners suffer in the lake of fire, yes. But eventually they die. The amount of suffering is equitable to the evil they committed. But you would have it that a 12yo in the first century after Christ who sinned little but turned away from Christ's offer of mercy through unbelief, suffers longer than the worst of evil kings in the 20th century who tortured thousands, murdered, raped, and destroyed relentlessly for decades and showed no remorse. I'm sorry, but the doctrine of eternal torment is an atrocious almost blasphemous belief that belongs in the waste bins of history.

So how long will God cook them? lol

 

[Taken]

Of course this life is temporary. Doesn't mean the next life is!

Post # 40
My comment was about mens experience of “temporary torments” on Earth…

YOUR IRRELEVANT RESPONSE was about “temporary life”.

Post #40
My comment was about unsaved souls of men “temporary torments” in hell.

YOUR IRRELEVANT ResPONSe was about “temporary hell”.

My comment about “temporary Hell” said it is a STUDY, gave you a few Scriptures ….Have ZERO implications YOU DID a STUDY ON HELL.

YOUR IRRELEVANT RESPONSE is you did not FIND PROOF Hell is temporary.

Rev 20: 14….
HELL is thrown into the Lake of Fire…

And contrary to what Jesus said that's your unBiblical opinion. Jesus made it clear, EVERLASTING!

I have already stated…Spirit LIFE is everlasting…

HELL is a PLACE…NOT a ‘spirit’.
TORMENTS is an THING….NOT a “spirit’.
Lake of Fire is an express EVERLASTING PLACE.

EVERY “DEAD” THING…EVERY PLACE…thrown INTO the Lake of Fire…..IS DESTROYED…

EVERY “LIVING THING” thrown into the LAKE of FIRE continues LIVING…

You have lots of unBiblical opinions.

YOUR False accusation NOTED…
You apparently HAVE the INABILITY to separate and APPLY FACTS to express POINTS.

I expressly stated the paramount importance of CONSIDERING…who, what, when, why, where….which you ignore…then attempt to blame others for your own short-comings.

The rich man died but was very much alive in the fire TORMENTED

Again…you ignoring the FACTS…
The rich man’s BODY died on Earth.
The rich man’s BODY was buried on Earth.
The rich man’s “UNSAVED” departed living soul WAS still LIVING, WAS sent to HELL and experiencing the “TORMENTS” of HELL.
* Until you STUDY…each point of FACTS…
*You are NOT prepared to comprehend THAT rich mans …. JUDGEMENT….SENTENCING….and FINAL destiny OF His BODY and USAVED SOUL!

Luke 16
19 The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

Yep….Quoting Factual Scripture…
IS KNOWLEDGE…

However…You Do NOT reveal, YOU Spiritually UNDERSTAND the KNOWLEDGE….
And “apparently” think “accusing me” for YOUR LACK of spiritual Understanding “IS” a valid blame unto to me……which IS False.

Col 1:
[9] For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

The Scripture tells us where. And yes, it matters.
Fire destroys. Man is not immortal. In any sense of the word. Eternal life is given as a gift to the righteous. Sinners die. It's all so very simple.

No….it is NOT all so simple.

From a NATURAL HUMANS perspective…
Man, woman, sex, sperm, egg, fertilization,
Nine months, baby born, body lives, body dies, buried, the end.

From Spirit God’s perspective…it’s ALL ABOUT the “WHOLE” of a natural HUMAN man…..
BODY….it’s life
SOUL….it’s life
SPIRIT…it’s life
And what SPIRITUALLY becomes of the WHOLE of the man’s LIFE…(body, soul, spirit)
* WITH God…FOREVER
* WITHOUT God…FOREVER DESTROYED and FORGOTTEN.

Who, What, When, Why, Where…!!!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Nancy]

Hate can, but does not necessarily exclude or contradict love. Love and hate are not opposites. To hate is to make one an enemy. Does God not love even His enemies?

"I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me."
Proverbs 8:17

 

[Jack]

Post # 40
My comment was about mens experience of “temporary torments” on Earth…

YOUR IRRELEVANT RESPONSE was about “temporary life”.

Post #40
My comment was about unsaved souls of men “temporary torments” in hell.

YOUR IRRELEVANT ResPONSe was about “temporary hell”.

My comment about “temporary Hell” said it is a STUDY, gave you a few Scriptures ….Have ZERO implications YOU DID a STUDY ON HELL.

YOUR IRRELEVANT RESPONSE is you did not FIND PROOF Hell is temporary.

Rev 20: 14….
HELL is thrown into the Lake of Fire…

Fire does not destroy fire. They will be merged.

"they will be tormented day and night FOREVER"!

I have already stated…Spirit LIFE is everlasting…

HELL is a PLACE…NOT a ‘spirit’.
TORMENTS is an THING….NOT a “spirit’.
Lake of Fire is an express EVERLASTING PLACE.

And Hell will be there with all its residents.

EVERY “DEAD” THING…EVERY PLACE…thrown INTO the Lake of Fire…..IS DESTROYED…

No it isn't! Why do you make such unBiblical comments???

Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

EVERY “LIVING THING” thrown into the LAKE of FIRE continues LIVING…

Including the Devil and his children!

YOUR False accusation NOTED…

So stop avoiding Scripture.

You apparently HAVE the INABILITY to separate and APPLY FACTS to express POINTS.

And that's your opinion, again.

I expressly stated the paramount importance of CONSIDERING…who, what, when, why, where….which you ignore…then attempt to blame others for your own short-comings.

And of course come the personal insults, but no supporting Scripture.

Again…you ignoring the FACTS…
The rich man’s BODY died on Earth.
The rich man’s BODY was buried on Earth.
The rich man’s “UNSAVED” departed living soul WAS still LIVING, WAS sent to HELL and experiencing the “TORMENTS” of HELL.
* Until you STUDY…each point of FACTS…
*You are NOT prepared to comprehend THAT rich mans …. JUDGEMENT….SENTENCING….and FINAL destiny OF His BODY and USAVED SOUL!

Yep….Quoting Factual Scripture…
IS KNOWLEDGE…

However…You Do NOT reveal, YOU Spiritually UNDERSTAND the KNOWLEDGE….
And “apparently” think “accusing me” for YOUR LACK of spiritual Understanding “IS” a valid blame unto to me……which IS False.

Still evading the Scripture!

Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Col 1:
[9] For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

Glory to God,
Taken

So wise up!

Psalm 111:10
10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom;

 

[Taken]

Fire does not destroy fire. They will be merged.

Hell HAS fire…
The LAKE OF FIRE IS Fire…

"they will be tormented day and night FOREVER"!

Uh huh….however….paramount to know “WHO” they are.
“WHAT” is the status of their LIFE

And Hell will be there with all its residents.

Hell becomes burned up.

No it isn't! Why do you make such unBiblical comments???

You make false allegations BECAUSE you understand NOT!

Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

You … understand NOT…WHO the devil, the beast, the false prophet are….

Including the Devil and his children!

You…..add to Scripture.

So stop avoiding Scripture.

Another false accusation.
Your confusion….I am rejecting your opinions and false allegations.

And of course come the personal insults, but no supporting Scripture.

Check your own comments….attempting to insult while whining about insults…Laughable.

Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The devil DECEIVED THEM…
NOT the devils “children” as you say.
Satan DECEIVES the Nations (at the end of Christ’s 1,000 year reign)

Rev 20:
[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
[8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So wise up!

For an interested audience go talk to your mirror !

Psalm 111:10
10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom;

Keep studying the WHOLE truth, and you might obtain some facts.

 

[Jack]

Hell HAS fire…
The LAKE OF FIRE IS Fire…

Yep, they will become one and filled with BILLIONS of humans. Jesus said so!

Uh huh….however….paramount to know “WHO” they are.
“WHAT” is the status of their LIFE

They are Satan's children.

Hell becomes burned up.

No it does not! It is merged into the Lake of Fire with all it's occupants.

You make false allegations BECAUSE you understand NOT!

You will soon understand.

Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

You … understand NOT…WHO the devil, the beast, the false prophet are….

They are living beings. And so are humans.

You…..add to Scripture.

No, I just quote it.

Jesus speaking to humans:

Matthew 25:41
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Another false accusation.
Your confusion….I am rejecting your opinions and false allegations.

[QUOTE}And of course come the personal insults, but no supporting Scripture.

, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

There you go!

 

[Taken]

There you go!

I have a teacher Jack and it is not you.

DEAD…things, (body’s / soul’s) of humans are not tormented in the Lake of Fire!

ONLY Living “things” can be tormented!

PLACES….earth, hell, are not tormented!

ONLY Living “things” can be tormented!

A DEAD “thing” has NOT LIFE IN IT…

The ONLY LIVING THING, that shall be thrown into the LAKE OF FIRE, are “SPIRITS”!
THEY SHALL BE “TORMENTED” forever…
Because they CAN NOT DIE !!!

Everything else thrown INTO the Lake of Fire shall be destroyed by BEING burned up.

Sheesh!

 

[Jack]

I have a teacher Jack and it is not you.

And who would that be? Certainly not the Bible.

DEAD…things, (body’s / soul’s) of humans are not tormented in the Lake of Fire!

ONLY Living “things” can be tormented!

PLACES….earth, hell, are not tormented!

ONLY Living “things” can be tormented!

A DEAD “thing” has NOT LIFE IN IT…

The ONLY LIVING THING, that shall be thrown into the LAKE OF FIRE, are “SPIRITS”!
THEY SHALL BE “TORMENTED” forever…
Because they CAN NOT DIE !!!

Everything else thrown INTO the Lake of Fire shall be destroyed by BEING burned up.

Sheesh!

Should we believe you or Jesus?

Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Taken]

And who would that be? Certainly not the Bible.

The Bible reveals Knowledge and Mysteries.
The Spirit of God reveals more Knowledge and the Understanding of the Knowledge and Mysteries.

You revealing your Limits has zero influence on me.

Should we believe you or Jesus?

Not a mystery…
The Deceiv-ER, (devil), and the Deceiv-ED, (beast & false prophet) ARE THEY…who will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Not a mystery…
Matt 10:
[28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Not a mystery…
1 Cor 2:
[13] Which things also we (I) speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Not a mystery…
Ecc. 9:
[5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

By your teaching…
You have DEAD men, their DESTROYED body and soul…
Eternally ALIVE suffering the Torments IN the Lake of Fire.

 

[Jack]

By your teaching…
You have DEAD men, their DESTROYED body and soul…
Eternally ALIVE suffering the Torments IN the Lake of Fire.

No, by Jesus' teaching.

Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Gottservant]

My understanding of the OP is incomplete. What I understand at the moment, is just that God suffers. So the question is not so much "why does God allow suffering?" as "why does God not even prevent His own suffering?"

Your thoughts on this would be interesting.

 

[Taken]

No, by Jesus' teaching.

Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Jack ~ You would do well to study before attempting to debate.
@FaithWillDo….ditto.

To ARRIVE at the TRUTH…
First learn the KNOWLEDGE…
Then Seek the Lord for UNDERSTANDING of the KNOWLEDGE.

WHO…was the Lake of Fire “prepared for”?

Matt 25:
[41] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

WHO…the devil and his angels.

Rev. 20:
[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

WHO….deceived them?
WHO….the devil.
WHO….is / are devils?

Rev 12:
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Who…was the Lake of Fire “prepared” for?
Who…the devil and his angels.

Who…shall suffer “TORMENTS” day and night for ever and ever?

Who…devil, his angels, beast, false prophet.

How…Why….can the devil, his angels, the beast, the false prophet SUFFER “TORMENTS” day and night for ever and ever?

Obviously the KNOWLEDGE you neither KNOW or UNDERSTAND…

The devil, the devils angels, the beast, the false prophet………ARE ALL “SPIRITS”…..SUBJECT TO “TORMENTS” day and night for ever and ever…

SPIRITS…CAN NOT DIE!
THE LAKE of FIRE….is continual ever lasting FIRE.
SPIRITS…IN the Lake of Fire….HAVE NO POWER to ESCAPE!!
SPIRITS…IN the Lake of Fire SHALL continually BURN, without DYING.
*** DUH….ouchie burning forever!!
*** DUH….the BURNING forever “IS”….”THE TORMENTS”!!!

So how about HUMANS?
What about THEM?

Matt. 25: (You read and study!)
THEY are “DIVIDED”….
On …. Right hand of the Lord
On…. Left hand of the Lord
On…. Right hand RECEIVE the gift of Gods SEED, rebirth of their EVER LASTING SPIRIT.
On…. Left hand “DO NOT RECEIVE” Gods SEED, nor rebirth of an ever lasting spirit!
On…Right hand FOR EVER CONSEQUENCE?
REWARD
* ALIVE “FOREVER” with the Lord God.
On…Left hand FOR EVER CONSEQUENCE?
PUNISHMENT
(Matt 25:46)
* DEAD “FOREVER” destroyed WITHOUT the Lord God.
(Matt 10:28)
WHERE are the DEAD FOREVER DESTROYED?
Answer…IN the Lake of Fire.

The DEAD HUMANS are not alive, are not tormented……they are Punished by being MADE Life-LESS, ie WITHOUT LIFE and DESTROYED!

* LIFE-LESS…
BLOOD….life of the body….absent
GODS BREATH…life of the soul…absent from the soul, returned to God.
SPIRIT…life from Gods SEED….Gods SEED not given, body is absent from spirit life.

WHAT DOES A LIFELESS BODY AND SOUL
“FEEL”? NOTHING.

How does a LIFELESS body and soul…experience the suffering of torments, burning fire? It doesn’t!

Go observe…an autopsy…give a report of a lifeless body, experiencing tormenting pain, and that body’s reaction!

Go observe…a cremation…give a report of a lifeless body, experiencing tormenting pain, and that body’s reaction!

!!!!

Taken

 

[Jack]

Let's take one verse at a time instead of smokescreening like a JW.