rethinking the prophets...

[lforrest]

Jeremiah writes that if a man prophesies doom, and it fails, okay, it failed; but the mark of a false prophet is when he prophesies peace, and it fails.

At the end of the day I think the prophet of righteousness willingly or under divine judgment, as with Jonah, surrenders all judgment to God. Those prophets in itsrith ulterior motives don't give thought.

A church I often attend here in a city like Sodom, used to have a fellow they called "prophet" visit from time to time and deliver a message. He always gave me bad vibes. There was a season when families in that church were getting struck time and again. That "prophet" came and prophesied, "there's not going to be any more deaths!" That very week the worship leader died. The church just kind of tried to not acknowledge anything. That's when I knew he was a false prophet. He said, "peace! peace!" And God proved him a liar.

The Lord may relent from bringing immediate judgement if a prophet speaks judgement, but he would never bring judgement when the prophecy is peace. I can agree.

 

[marks]

Just a minor point... It wasn't Jeremiah who gave the prophecy. It was Micah. Jeremiah therefore wasn't prophesying at that point. He was report that Micah prophesied, Hezekiah sought the Lord, and the Lord held back on the destruction of Jerusalem. With all the prophecies concerning judgment on Israel and Judah, included was a plea from the Lord that the people turn back to Him so that the judgment prophesied would not happen. I believe that Simon in Acts, who offered money for the Holy Spirit, repented and asked Peter and John to pray for him so that the judgment Peter said to him would not happen. Repentance is always a game changer when it comes to judgment prophecies.

This came up because some people were planning to kill Jeremiah for his prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem. So someone pointed out that Micah had made this prophecy, and God didn't do it, as you said, because Hezekiah sought the Lord.

I think the idea was, don't just knee-jerk kill this guy because he prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem. He could really be a prophet, and you could be killing God's prophet! After all, look at Micah, and his prophecy! Like that.

Much love!

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

The Lord may relent from bringing immediate judgement of a prophet speaks judgement, but he would never being judgement for a prophet speaking peace. I can agree.

I'm just trying to catch what you're saying. Could you correct the typos? Thanks.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I'm just telling you what Jeremiah wrote. If you disagree with him that's your business.

It's our business to judge the prophets, as true or false. It isn't just those who predict good news that comes false that are false prophets. It's also those who prophesy bad news that proves false that are to be judged as such.

When you quote Jeremiah, you're dealing with a single context. You can't make a single statement in a single context apply to all occasions, to different contexts. That's irresponsible. It's also irresponsible to say that false prophecy is okay if it's negative news. I'm sure Jeremiah wasn't saying that!

2 Peter 2:3. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

Does fabricated stories apply only to good news, and not include bad news, as well? "Fabricated stories" refers to *any news that is made up!* Why you don't get that is beyond me, but yes--it's all of our business. We're called to expose the lies of Satan.

I think what you're talking about is the fact false prophets ignore the need for public repentance. They don't believe God will punish the society for their sins, and whitewashes the sins so that they will be treated with indifference to their bad deeds. This is why they tend to proclaim good news when they should be warning of bad news.

When a true prophet predicts bad news and it doesn't come to pass, it is because the people have *repented,* which is the whole purpose of the prophecy, to induce change. It is not a false prophecy, because if people return to their sins, the original prophecy will indeed take place. There is some flexibility, therefore, in how we treat Jonah's prophecy that in *40 days* judgment would fall. It was delayed, due to repentance, and then later came to pass when the people of Nineveh returned to their sins.

Here Jeremiah clearly indicates that false prophecy encompasses not just good news, but also a warning of bad news if they surrender to the Babylonians...

Jeremiah 38.4 Then the officials said to the king, “This man should be put to death. He is discouraging the soldiers who are left in this city, as well as all the people, by the things he is saying to them. This man is not seeking the good of these people but their ruin.”

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

It's our business to judge the prophets, as true or false. It isn't just those who predict good news that comes false that are false prophets. It's also those who prophesy bad news that proves false that are to be judged as such.

When you quote Jeremiah, you're dealing with a single context. You can't make a single statement in a single context apply to all occasions, to different contexts. That's irresponsible. It's also irresponsible to say that false prophecy is okay if it's negative news. I'm sure Jeremiah wasn't saying that!

2 Peter 2:3. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

Does fabricated stories apply only to good news, and not include bad news, as well? "Fabricated stories" refers to *any news that is made up!* Why you don't get that is beyond me, but yes--it's all of our business. We're called to expose the lies of Satan.

I think what you're talking about is the fact false prophets ignore the need for public repentance. They don't believe God will punish the society for their sins, and whitewashes the sins so that they will be treated with indifference to their bad deeds. This is why they tend to proclaim good news when they should be warning of bad news.news.

No, I'm saying false prophets always have an ulterior motive. They're interested in keeping the attention of the people. They cater to itching ears to serve the interests of certain stakeholders.

When a true prophet predicts bad news and it doesn't come to pass, it is because the people have *repented,* which is the whole purpose of the prophecy, to induce change. It is not a false prophecy, because if people return to their sins, the original prophecy will indeed take place. There is some flexibility, therefore, in how we treat Jonah's prophecy that in *40 days* judgment would fall. It was delayed, due to repentance, and then later came to pass when the people of Nineveh returned to their sins.

Here Jeremiah clearly indicates that false prophecy encompasses not just good news, but also a warning of bad news if they surrender to the Babylonians...

Jeremiah 38.4 Then the officials said to the king, “This man should be put to death. He is discouraging the soldiers who are left in this city, as well as all the people, by the things he is saying to them. This man is not seeking the good of these people but their ruin.”

No, because up to this point, every thought of a city or branch of the Hebrew people surrendering to others was ALWAYS counted a reproach to the people of God. Now God's prophet says, for the first time ever, to surrender your souls to the Chaldaeans. This was not good news.

 

[Randy Kluth]

No, I'm saying false prophets always have an ulterior motive. They're interested in keeping the attention of the people. They cater to itching ears to serve the interests of certain stakeholders.

Sounds like you're choosing to defend the indefensible. False prophecy should be exposed, whether good or bad news. And it's not just "itching ears." It's also the desire to cover up sins.

No, because up to this point, every thought of a city or branch of the Hebrew people surrendering to others was ALWAYS counted a reproach to the people of God. Now God's prophet says, for the first time ever, to surrender your souls to the Chaldaeans. This was not good news.

Yes, the false prophets were predicting *bad news* if Israel surrendered to the Chaldeans. Get it? Bad news or good news, false prophecy is all bad!

You can take it any way, that the false prophets were predicting good news if they ran or bad news if they surrendered to the Babylonians. Normally, when the nation was obedient, they should not be under judgment, and they should have nothing to do with the Babylonians. And so, the false prophets falsely prophesied that Israel was not in sin, was not being judged, and should not capitulate to pagan overlords.

True prophecy recognizes sin, and the need for judgment. Capitulating to their just desserts therefore made sense. However, the prophets were not prophesying good news if the people followed the prophet's demand to surrender. So was their prophecy "good?" No, they were prophesying something bad, and recommending following the Law in appearance only. They should *not* have failed to surrender to pagans because they should've known the wrongs they had done.

So if you can't really tell if the prophet is speaking bad or good, then how do you know they're false prophets? It has to do with recognition of sin in their midst, and that God was bringing obvious judgment against them for their sin.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The word going around here is that Trump should refuse to concede. If it's a closely contested election, this will force a vote from Congress, one vote per state, and Trump will win.

I still see no evidence, however, that Trump will win. The prophets have continued to stand by their prophecies, as far as I know. Let me know if you know anything I don't?

 

[Heart2Soul]

There was Kim Clement in post 55.

Sid Roth also had several guests on his show who predicted concerning President Trump.

Kim Clement, may he rest in peace, was the first prophet to publicly prophesy that Trump would become President....in 2007...9 years before he was elected...even Trump wasn't looking to run for president in 2007.

 

[Timtofly]

God appointed many bad kings to punish Israel. He caused other nations to defeat them, enslave them - regardless of the who the leader was.
You must not fully understand Rom. 13:1. He appoints all leaders.


Religion? Are you implying that Catholism got Biden elected? I guess the Pope, priests and Nuns are dancing in the street.


I would expect that God would appoint Trump instead, given all that he accomplished through him . But Biden can erase through executive orders all that Trump erased from Obama. He can year down the WALL, let immigrants in, hundreds of thousands of refugees and offer them a free life. Socialism leads to a universal wage for everyone. No more capitalism, no more personal property, no more entrepreneurs, just redistribution of wealth and as they collapse the economies of the world through a series of covid-19 and covid-21 outbreaks, they will offer everyone a way out - take the mark of the beast, relinquish all your assets - or else.

My point is those who claim to be of God and voted for the Democrats cannot take the credit they did the right thing, and won. God may have appointed it, despite so called believers voting that way. God sometimes gives people sin (their fleshly desires) to make their punishment that much greater.

 

[GTW27]

Kim Clement, may he rest in peace, was the first prophet to publicly prophesy that Trump would become President....in 2007...9 years before he was elected...even Trump wasn't looking to run for president in 2007.

I have found that true prophecy comes(flows through) when we are in The Spirit. Even afterward I have wondered why certain words were spoken. For example, why were food lines talked about before it came to be. Back in 1999, I was in Buffalo in an apartment while the land was being prepared where I live now. One day as I was walking by the tv I heard these words, "My son, there is your next President". As I looked I saw a man from Texas whom I did not know. Some time later, the exact time I do not recall, I heard, "an arragant people shall receive an arragant President". The next year as people were wondering who would be their next President, I new that it was already determined. Now this was an example of a whispering in the ear by The Lord as history shows it came to pass. But that was long ago. What could have happened back then is that another voice could have whispered in my ear with a totally different outcome. This causes the enemy to laugh and a seed of doubt is then sown in our hearts. Over the years I have been gotten this very way. So I have learned to ask myself this question. What does(would) the enemy gain by this? You see, the enemy does nothing unless there is something he can gain. He is all about self and a hate for us. The Lord has said,"what I whisper in your ear, proclaim from the rooftops" and I have learned the key word here is "I". Now if you take notice these words are not few and are easily understood, but on the other hand, The Lord does not waste words, but only speaks what is needed, and is perfect as He is The Perfect.

 

[lforrest]

Just dozed off and had a dream I think I should share:

I was driving a motorcycle (I don't own one) and sitting at a stop light in my local town and was waiting behind some cars to turn left before reaching my destination. The light in front of me changed but the person in the old van at the front of the line didn't move. And as you can imagine people were angry at them. Eventually I got around and could reach my destination without waiting for the traffic. Then it was night and I was walking along a sidewalk past a location where two Christians were murdered, and at that location I was lead to pray for justice. At home in the dream I was lead to pray in the spirit, "Lord convict us of our sins."

 

[Paul Christensen]

Just dozed off and had a dream I think I should share:

I was driving a motorcycle (I don't own one) and sitting at a stop light in my local town and was waiting behind some cars to turn left before reaching my destination. The light in front of me changed but the person in the old van at the front of the line didn't move. And as you can imagine people were angry at them. Eventually I got around and could reach my destination without waiting for the traffic. Then it was night and I was walking along a sidewalk past a location where two Christians were murdered, and at that location I was lead to pray for justice. At home in the dream I was lead to pray in the spirit, "Lord convict us of our sins."

I have vivid dreams at times - just like really being there. Sometimes a dream will involve someone I know, and that prompts me to pray for them. Others, when I wake up I say to the Lord, "That was a weird one! I wonder what that was all about?" But then I watch a lot of videos, movies, and have read quite a number of Clive Cussler adventure novels, and those enhance my imagination, and most probably my dreams.

 

[lforrest]

I have vivid dreams at times - just like really being there. Sometimes a dream will involve someone I know, and that prompts me to pray for them. Others, when I wake up I say to the Lord, "That was a weird one! I wonder what that was all about?" But then I watch a lot of videos, movies, and have read quite a number of Clive Cussler adventure novels, and those enhance my imagination, and most probably my dreams.

This one wasn't super vivid, but it is affirming.

 

[Paul Christensen]

This one wasn't super vivid, but it is affirming.

Dreams are fun, but I never try to interpret them to get some sort of message from God. I do cover myself with the blood of Jesus against nightmares that are claustaphobic and have me crying out and struggling to wake up. Some recurring dreams: Driving a car when the brakes don't work, or driving a car backwards not seeing where I am going; or looking for a toilet with a door for privacy and not finding one. One from my teaching days - going to school and not being able to find the class I am supposed to be teaching; or being late for work and then feeling relieved when I woke up. These show my crazy mind.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Kim Clement, may he rest in peace, was the first prophet to publicly prophesy that Trump would become President....in 2007...9 years before he was elected...even Trump wasn't looking to run for president in 2007.

Yea, that really rocked my boat. And it was Kim Clement who foretold a 2nd term for Trump, which doesn't seem to be coming to pass. Certainly God could turn it around, but will He? You'd think there would be some indication, but I see none. I really wonder if the prophets can remain consistent in hearing from God? They seem to get impossible things right, but other things don't seem to be right. I remain open....

 

[Heart2Soul]

Yea, that really rocked my boat. And it was Kim Clement who foretold a 2nd term for Trump, which doesn't seem to be coming to pass. Certainly God could turn it around, but will He? You'd think there would be some indication, but I see none. I really wonder if the prophets can remain consistent in hearing from God? They seem to get impossible things right, but other things don't seem to be right. I remain open....

Well he didn't say consecutive terms..
Although I took it that way..

 

[Mantis]

Well he didn't say consecutive terms..
Although I took it that way..

Me too. It was interesting that he said that Trump would throttle the enemies of Israel. Seems he would need a second term to do that. That guy seems pretty legit.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Me too. It was interesting that he said that Trump would throttle the enemies of Israel. Seems he would need a second term to do that. That guy seems pretty legit.

That's what I shared somewhere here....when I was praying last year..maybe year before He told me to keep my eyes on Israel...and indeed, under Trump prophesy is being fulfilled right before our very eyes. And the signing of the peace agreement really sealed it for me.
I believe that the temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem....one thing that needs to take place is for Israel to regain possession of the Temple Mount which is currently in the Muslims possession. They would never give it back to Israel before the peace agreement....but now I see it happening....so I agree with you that Trump would need to be in office to help negotiate this. But nothing is impossible for Him it could happen under any president.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Well he didn't say consecutive terms..
Although I took it that way..

It's very embarrassing for us if we've been wrong about this, or rather, the *prophets* have been wrong, and we were wrong for believing them. Perhaps God isn't worried about looking bad, but is just wanting to clean up the Church?

Some are still claiming that God is just testing the Church to see if it will believe Him for miracles. Others think that the Church is flawed, and needs to be set right.

I'm now leaning towards the latter. I'd love to believe that I was on the right path, but it really looks like I was not. God is giving the victory to the wicked. And He does so in order to gather them together for future judgment.

I've long been concerned about the political state that we live in, and I think it's right to do so. But our allegiance is to a higher power. When everything fails in the political state, we have recourse to something much better.

It's just that if we never cared about the political state we would never know how God really feels about it. I believe His heart is broken, just as mine is now. If we don't care, something's wrong with us!

 

[Keraz]

Rethinking the Prophets?
Yes; reread and rethink what they actually say and don't shoehorn your own interpretation onto their prophesies.
Obviously this is the problem, as there are multiple interpretations of what we are told God plans to do.

There is; no doubt, a convergence of events and in the world situation that point to the imminence of when the Lord will once again, act to correct mankind to a similar degree as He did in the days of Noah. Matthew 24:37-44, 2 Peter 3:-7