Revelation 11-the measure of the temple

[101G]

since there are many who say and I quote ,"trying to introduce confusion into this discussion (as usual)". well if I'm in ERROR then just correct.

so to all the seer's let's see what you got here on this verse.
Revelation 11:5 "And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed".

ok, Enoch111, your understanding.

PICJAG.

if it's alright with the other posters we'll wait on Enoch111 to give us his understanding of Revelation 11:5. so if any have any edifiaction, please just hold it just for a few minutes or a few hours if you don't mind. I know I would like to here what he has to say about the chapter.

so we'll move on to verse 6

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

Revelation 11:6 "These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will".

This is where many get who the two witness from. many believe that this is Moses and Elijah. I say no, for the bible clearly tells us who these two are. One must remember that in verse 1 thells us this, Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John"

that word "signified" is very important in understanding the Book of revelation. it cannot always be taken literal unless told so.
so what do "signified" mean?
G4591 σημαίνω semaino (see-mai'-nō) v.
to indicate.
[from sema (a mark: of uncertain derivation)]
KJV: signify

to INDICATE, or point to another. dictionary, the meaning or idea expressed by a sign, as distinct from the physical form in which it is expressed.

so the two here are indicated by a distinction from the physical form in which it is expressed. so they are not Moses and Elijah. so lets open it up to some other consideration. and we can all learn something. so if anuone have any thoughts or suggestion as to who these are I'm open.

PICJAG.

 

[Waiting on him]

So, just interested , it sounds a but as if you believe that 'everyone' who is eventually saved will be in the Bride company ?

Hi Helen, not wanting to derail the thread, but what if the bride of Christ is the new Jerusalem. We are the children Of promise (children of God) She is above and free instructed to put on the wedding garments as @charity posted the other day... once barren and desolate but now rejoicing for Christ has entered in through His flesh, now She has more children that the woman whom has a husband.

 

[Willie T]

One thing I have learned about the "symbolization" in Revelation is that the old adage holds true that we need to let Scripture interpret Scripture. I doubt there is any symbolization in that BOOK that is not explained by Scripture. If not within R, then, elsewhere in the Bible, usually, but not always, in the OT.
IMHO, most of the potential danger lies in the inventions of meanings that attempt to force Scripture to fit modern times.

 

[Waiting on him]

One thing I have learned about the "symbolization" in Revelation is that the old adage holds true that we need to let Scripture interpret Scripture. I doubt there is any symbolization in that BOOK that is not explained by Scripture. If not within R, then, elsewhere in the Bible, usually, but not always, in the OT.
IMHO, most of the potential danger lies in the inventions of meanings the attempt to force Scripture to fit modern times.

What’s your opinion Willie, how can we be His Children and Wife?

 

[101G]

Hi Helen, not wanting to derail the thread, but what if the bride of Christ is the new Jerusalem. We are the children Of promise (children of God) She is above and free instructed to put on the wedding garments as @charity posted the other day... once barren and desolate but now rejoicing for Christ has entered in through His flesh, now She has more children that the woman whom has a husband.

you're on time and correct. don't worry about any derailing. just speak your peace, for we all are learning. for we must put off this old and put on the new. 1 Corinthians 15:42 "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption".
so where is this NEW BODY?, lets check the record.
2 Corinthians 5:1 "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens". (a what? .. HOUSE, John 14:2a "in my Father's house are many mansions).
2 Corinthians 5:2 "For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: (what comes down from heaven?... that's right NEW JERUSALM).

2 Corinthians 5:3 "If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

2 Corinthians 5:4 "For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. BINGO.

PICJAG.

 

[Willie T]

What’s your opinion Willie, how can we be His Children and Wife?

Have you researched every other mention of "wife", "bride", "child", "children", or any other derivatives of those words, to see how they relate to one another, and to your question?

 

[101G]

One thing I have learned about the "symbolization" in Revelation is that the old adage holds true that we need to let Scripture interpret Scripture. I doubt there is any symbolization in that BOOK that is not explained by Scripture. If not within R, then, elsewhere in the Bible, usually, but not always, in the OT.
IMHO, most of the potential danger lies in the inventions of meanings that attempt to force Scripture to fit modern times.

true, Scripture interpert scripture. as the apostle Peter said, 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation".

so let's leave out self, and stick with the scriptures.

PICJAG.

 

[Willie T]

true, Scripture interpert scripture. as the apostle Peter said, 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation".

so let's leave out self, and stick with the scriptures.

PICJAG.

Well, I don't exactly agree with that statement. Not the way you and so many people are using it, anyway. I think those words were originally written to tell us no "Prophet" ever came up with what he prophesized, on his own, out of thin air, or through his own understanding.

I do happen to think many "Scriptures", however, are open to our individual interpretations. I have mentioned before that it should be quite obvious that we do not all read, "go into all the world...." the same way...……. or else there would be no one staying at home.

 

[Waiting on him]

Have you researched every other mention of "wife", "bride", "child", "children", or any other derivatives of those words, to see how they relate to one another, and to your question?

Not all I’m certain. That’s why I asked your opinion, it seems no matter how much I read someone else has been given something I haven’t.

 

[101G]

Well, I don't exactly agree with that statement. Not the way you and so many people are using it, anyway. I think those words were originally written to tell us no "Prophet" ever came up with what he prophesized, on his own, out of thin air, or through his own understanding.

I do happen to think many "Scriptures", however, are open to our individual interpretations. I have mentioned before that it should be quite obvious that we do not all read, "go into all the world...." the same way...……. or else there would be no one staying at home.

no prophet spoke on his or her own, not God's prophet. that's why the records of God's prophets are sure.

so if you see me using my own words on something and have not scripture to back it up please notify me.

PICJAG.

 

[Willie T]

Not all I’m certain.

Nor have I. So an "opinion" from me on that topic would be of no value.

 

[101G]

now as for the "BRIDE" who wife she is,the book states,
Revelation 21:9 "And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. (If you have another wife in mind for the Lamb's wife please post it).

Revelation 21:10 "And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Revelation 21:11 "Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

Revelation 21:12 "And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

Revelation 21:13 "On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

Revelation 21:14 "And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

PICJAG.

 

[Willie T]

no prophet spoke on his or her own, not God's prophet. that's why the records of God's prophets are sure.

so if you see me using my own words on something and have not scripture to back it up please notify me.

PICJAG.

Sorry, can't do that. We can't find any Scripture directly relating to many social issues today that our general beliefs would have us holding certain opinions about. I am one of those guys who doesn't believe Jesus came to simply bring us a new, different and revised set of specific rules to follow.

 

[Waiting on him]

now as for the "BRIDE" who wife she is,the book states,
Revelation 21:9 "And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. (If you have another wife in mind for the Lamb's wife please post it).

Revelation 21:10 "And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Revelation 21:11 "Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

Revelation 21:12 "And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

Revelation 21:13 "On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

Revelation 21:14 "And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

PICJAG.

So, in your personal opinion how can we be the children and wife ?

 

[Earburner]

Revelation 11:6 "These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy:

and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will".

During the time of the ministry of John the Baptist and Jesus, it did not "rain" down the Holy Spirit upon anyone else, until the Day of Pentecost, which was after their ministry.

The angel to Zacharius, and Jesus himself said that John came in the authority of the spirit of Elijah.
Luke 1:12-17.
Matthew 11:7-14
Jesus Himself came by the authority of God the Father Himself.
John 3:16
John 5:23-38

Both had the power over "all plagues" to smite the earth, but during their ministry, they did not.

 

[101G]

Sorry, can't do that. We can't find any Scripture directly relating to many social issues today that our general beliefs would have us holding certain opinions. I am one of those guys who doesn't believe Juses came to simply bring us a new, different and revised set of specific rules to follow.

the bible is full of answers to our social issues/dilemma today, but no one is willing to apply them. but that's another topic.

I'll stay on topic here.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

So, in your personal opinion how can we be the children and wife ?

all childern GROW up to be in this case a "wife".

Just as Israel was God son, yet he was Married to Israle... want to take a shot at that?...

PICJAG.

 

[Waiting on him]

Galatians 4:26-28 KJV
[26] But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. [27] For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. [28] Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.


Tecarta Bible

 

[Waiting on him]

all childern GROW up to be in this case a "wife".

Just as Israel was God son, yet he was Married to Israle... want to take a shot at that?...

PICJAG.

Nope.