Revelation 11-the measure of the temple

[Waiting on him]

Nope.

His seed remains in us?

 

[Waiting on him]

Several times in the Epistles there’s language like in travail till Christ be formed in you.... present you as pure virgins....

 

[Waiting on him]

Several times in the Epistles there’s language like in travail till Christ be formed in you.... present you as pure virgins....

Kinda hard to follow.

 

[101G]

Nope.

we must disagress with that assessment. Ephesians 4:13 "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Ephesians 4:14 "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Ephesians 4:15 "But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

but thanks for the IMPUT.

so we must stick to the scriptures.

PICJAG

 

[Waiting on him]

we must disagress with that assessment. Ephesians 4:13 "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Ephesians 4:14 "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Ephesians 4:15 "But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

but thanks for the IMPUT.

so we must stick to the scriptures.

PICJAG

Ok, I only hope I haven’t deceived anyone.

 

[101G]

Ok, I only hope I haven’t deceived anyone.

NO, this is a discussion for all of us to Learn. no one if finding fault, not trying to dishonor anyone on purpose. we all are human, and we all make mistakes. (that's call being human).

we all are brothers and sisters, if we disagree, fine, down the road something might change. we can only give consideration to the scriptures. no one person KNOW IT ALL. by discussing we all learn from each other. if i'm in error, then I must repent. but as the Lord said throught his apostle Paul, 1 Corinthians 3:15 "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire".

so if wrong, "suffer the loss of not knowing", and praise God that now you know. "but he himself shall be saved"
you cannot loose with God.

PICJAG.

 

[Willie T]

the bible is full of answers to our social issues/dilemma today, but no one is willing to apply them. but that's another topic.

I'll stay on topic here.

PICJAG.

Yes, the answers are there. But, they are not always the same one for every situation in all of our eyes. Jesus told the rich young ruler to sell all his possessions.... yet He told Judas to back off complaining about Mary pouring perfume worth a year's wages on His feet.
I offer a bum a job, and someone else tells him to forget working, and just take the $20 they are offering.

No, just reading a particular scripture doesn't give us hard, definitive answers to any-and-all situations.... even if the specific situations may appear identical.

 

[101G]

well looks like

Yes, the answers are there. But, they are not always the same one for every situation in all of our eyes. Jesus told the rich young ruler to sell all his possessions.... yet He told Judas to back off complaining about Mary pouring perfume worth a year's wages on His feet.
I offer a bum a job, and someone else tells him to forget working, and just take the $20 they are offering.

No, just reading a particular scripture doesn't give us hard, definitive answers to any-and-all situations.... even if the specific situations may appear identical.

(smile), so true. yes, it's just us who are not willing to surrender to his way. just as with the young ruler. he was told to sell all, but he didn't tell him to "give all". he just said, "give to the poor" not all to the poor. we all see thing differently and hear differently. but one day we will all get it together.

PICJAG.

 

[Willie T]

well looks like

(smile), so true. yes, it's just us who are not willing to surrender to his way. just as with the young ruler. he was told to sell all, but he didn't tell him to "give all". he just said, "give to the poor" not all to the poor. we all see thing differently and hear differently. but one day we will all get it together.

PICJAG.

Well, that one left both me and my wife speechless.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You are trying to introduce confusion into this discussion (as usual). If this is what was in view in Revelation 11, how would you measure the Church with a rod (a reed was a measuring stick)? Do you see how absurd this becomes when you confound the Church and the literal temple at Jerusalem?

So what that boils down to is UNBELIEF. People who refuse to take Scripture primarily in its plain literal sense (unless otherwise indicated) are telling God indirectly "I do not believe you". So let's get back to the subject at hand -- Revelation 11.

THERE WILL BE A LITERAL TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM DURING THE REIGN OF THE ANTICHRIST
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

THE OUTER COURT WILL BE EXCLUDED SINCE IT WILL BE DESECRATED BY GENTILES
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles:...

THE REIGN OF THE ANTICHRIST WILL BE FOR 42 MONTHS
...and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

MOSES AND ELIJAH WILL PROPHESY ON EARTH FOR 42 MONTHS
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. [Note: Elijah must come to earth before the great and terrible day of the LORD (the Great Tribulation). Moses and Elijah also met with Christ at His transfiguration]

THE TWO WITNESSES ARE METAPHORICALLY OLIVE TREES AND LAMPSTANDS (FULL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT)
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. [Note: These witnesses will preach the Gospel primarily to the Jews, and testify against the Antichrist. Many will be saved and martyred]

SUPERNATURAL FIRE WILL DEVOUR THE ENEMIES OF THESE PROPHETS
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. [Note: Elijah brought down fire from Heaven when he was on earth]

REASON WHY THESE TWO ARE MOSES AND ELIJAH
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy [ELIJAH]: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. [MOSES] [Note: When Elijah was on earth, it did not rain for 3 1/2 years (42 months)]

THE ANTICHRIST WILL HAVE THEM KILLED
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

JERUSALEM IS SPIRITUAL SODOM AND EGYPT AT THAT TIME
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. [Note: Jerusalem will be under the total control of Satan and the Antichrist for 3 1/2 years]

THE WHOLE WORLD WILL WITNESS THEIR DEATHS
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

THE WHOLE WORLD WILL REJOICE AT THEIR DEATHS
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

MOSES AND ELIJAH WILL BE RESURRECTED
11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

MOSES AND ELIJAH WILL BE RAPTURED TO HEAVEN
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

A GREAT EARTHQUAKE IN JERUSALEM WILL DESTROY THAT TEMPLE
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. 14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. [Note: The third temple will be abominable to God, hence it will be destroyed. Then there will be a fourth temple in Jerusalem according to the prophecy of Ezekiel, and this will be the true and holy temple of God]

THE FUTURE REIGN OF CHRIST ON EARTH IS PROPHESIED
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

THE 24 ELDERS IN HEAVEN PRAISE AND WORSHIP GOD AND CHRIST AT THIS TIME
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

THE WRATH OF GOD COMES DOWN ON EARTH AT THIS TIME
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

THE HEAVENLY TEMPLE IS OPENED AND IT HAS THE ARK OF THE COVENANT
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament [covenant]: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. [Note: The Ark of the Covenant was removed from the earth when Solomon's temple was destroyed by Babylon]

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Is any other sacrifice acceptable to God? Why call this proposed future temple the temple of God? The Altar is Christ. Those that worship at the Altar worship God In Spirit. Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Again what will they offer in this further “literal” temple with a literal Altar unto God that will be anymore acceptable than “to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.”

Ephesians 5:9-10 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth [10] Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

What is acceptable and why call it the future temple of God that men build?

 

[Enoch111]

What is acceptable and why call it the future temple of God that men build?

Simple. Bible prophecies must be fulfilled. Your Scripture quotes have no relevance to this matter.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Simple. Bible prophecies must be fulfilled. Your Scripture quotes have no relevance to this matter.

you didn’t answer. What is acceptable? Do you disagree with it or only that it has nothing to do with the future temple?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Bible prophecies must be fulfilled

which fulfills prophecies flesh or Spirit?

 

[Enoch111]

since there are many who say and I quote ,"trying to introduce confusion into this discussion (as usual)". well if I'm in ERROR then just correct.

so to all the seer's let's see what you got here on this verse.
Revelation 11:5 "And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed".

ok, Enoch111, your understanding.

PICJAG.

Already addressed above. God will send two prophets to this earth during the reign of the Antichrist for 3 1/2 years. (While not named, many Christians agree that they will be Moses and Elijah). And just as Elijah brought down fire from Heaven when he was originally on earth, he will cause supernatural fire to rain down upon those enemies who try to hurt the two prophets. Just take it in its plain literal sense and THERE WILL BE NO CONFUSION.

 

[Enoch111]

you didn’t answer. What is acceptable? Do you disagree with it or only that it has nothing to do with the future temple?

You are forgetting that God ALLOWS Satan and the Antichrist total control of this earth for 3 1/2 years. So it is acceptable to God to let His enemies have power for a limited period. So those Scriptures you quoted (which are addressed to God's people) have no relevance whatsoever. As I have stated many times, CONTEXT IS CRITICAL.

 

[Enoch111]

which fulfills prophecies flesh or Spirit?

God allows prophecies to be fulfilled, even when they include the evil deeds of Satan and the Antichrist. See 2 Thessalonians 2 and Revelation 13.

 

[Stranger]

Since Revelation is such a complicated read I try not to study it with any personal beliefs on the rapture.....however, having said that, it was when I was in my late 20s when I first studied Revelation and that is when I first began to question a pre-trib rapture. Nothing added up right with what I was reading to what I was being taught in the church.
The question on dispensational or amillennial view....honestly I had never heard of these until coming to this forum and I don't know what their views are. I pray and seek the Holy Spirit for answers and that is where I come to my understanding on scripture.....
And I have prayed throughout the years asking God if I have been deceived and if so show me. I continue even today to seek Him on this matter.
I use commentaries occasionally....Matthew Henry is one I favor the most, Gill's is good as well. But as I said above I mostly seek the Holy Spirit to help me see and understand.
Thanks for inquiring....God Bless

I don't think I mentioned the Rapture... but that is fine.

I believe you will find you will have to come to one or the others view of (Revelation). Either that of the dispensational view or the amillennial.

The commentaries you use will affect your view. There is no getting away from it. If you know already what view you lean to, then it doesn't matter. You get the commentary that supports your view. But if you don't know, I would study both. Because the commentaries will espouse one of those views.

Stranger

 

[Willie T]

I don't think I mentioned the Rapture... but that is fine.

I believe you will find you will have to come to one or the others view of (Revelation). Either that of the dispensational view or the amillennial.

The commentaries you use will affect your view. There is no getting away from it. If you know already what view you lean to, then it doesn't matter. You get the commentary that supports your view. But if you don't know, I would study both. Because the commentaries will espouse one of those views.

Stranger

Studying BOTH is something I believe whole-heartedly in.

 

[Earburner]

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Is any other sacrifice acceptable to God? Why call this proposed future temple the temple of God? The Altar is Christ. Those that worship at the Altar worship God In Spirit. Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Again what will they offer in this further “literal” temple with a literal Altar unto God that will be anymore acceptable than “to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.”

Ephesians 5:9-10 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth [10] Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

What is acceptable and why call it the future temple of God that men build?

Through faith in Christ, it is WE who are "acceptable" to the Father!
I am not trying re-write scripture here, but rather to show where the emphasis is applied in that verse.
I think that the emphasis of the word "acceptable", is on the words: "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood,....
.
Therefore, if you will,
we can read that scripture in the following way, which sounds more sensible:
"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ, to offer up spiritual sacrifices.

 

[101G]

SUPERNATURAL FIRE WILL DEVOUR THE ENEMIES OF THESE PROPHETS
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. [Note: Elijah brought down fire from Heaven when he was on earth]

SUPERNATURAL FIRE?, are you KIDDING. willie T, this is exactly what we're speaking, not letting the bibile interpert itself.
well enoch 111 this is not "SUPERNATURAL FIRE", it's the WORD OF GOD. supportive Scripture, Jeremiah 5:14 "Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them”. the Fire is symbolic for the "WORD of God". My.my.my. if one would read that 5th chapter of Jeremiah, one will see who this fire, the word of God devoured. It was false prophets. And the word of God exposed them for who they was, so did the Lord Jesus burned them, (the false prophets) up, by the word of God. John also had a fiery mouth, the truth, which made him a martyr, by getting his head choped off, because of the king brother wife. And please note: a martyr is also called a “witness”. this is the manner, in which, they will be killed. By the truth, the word of God will the false prophets will be killed, and like wise by telling the truth by the word of God these witness will be killed, literally. This fulfills the scripture, Genesis 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel”.

so the Fire in these witness mouth is not "SUPERNATURAL", but God's holy word.

and as for the measuring of the TEMPLE, you have no clue as what a "Rod" is neither. get edified.

Isaiah 11:4 "But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked". do you know what the "ROD" of his mouth is?... oh well search it out.

Hosea 6:5 "Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth".

so the FIRE in the two withess Mouth is the "TRUTH" the WORD of God.

Next, we'll post the true withess, both of them in contrast with "Moses", who repersent the LAW, and "Elijah" who repersent the prophets.

PICJAG.