Revelation 11-the measure of the temple

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Heart2Soul

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@101G....I have to get back to the 2 witnesses where you say they are John and Jesus.....honestly that confused me....how can Jesus come and be a witness to Himself? A witness by definition is someone who can testify to the actions and characteristics of another....
I have yet to conclude in total confidence who they are.
 

Enoch111

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The point of my argument was to show that the physical nation of Israel HAS NO future in any part of the KoG, now or ever!!
This is COMPLETELY FALSE.

There will indeed by a visible, physical AND spiritual, redeemed and restored, nation (or kingdom) of Israel UNDER CHRIST after His Second Coming. The twelve tribes will be settled in Greater Israel (from the Nile to the Euphrates), and there will be a fourth and ultimate temple in Jerusalem.

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. (Acts 1:6,7)

ROMANS 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

 
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Enoch111

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@101G....I have to get back to the 2 witnesses where you say they are John and Jesus.....honestly that confused me....how can Jesus come and be a witness to Himself?
As I already pointed out 101G is here to simply add confusion to this discussion. Please see my post above on the two witnesses, who are Moses and Elijah (by implication). These were the two prophets who came to speak with Jesus at His transfiguration. That is significant.
 
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Earburner

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And try explaining it to them...do yourself a favor and research the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem.
Don't need to! Through faith in Jesus, born again christians are the temple of God. Therefore, because of the Sacrifice of His Son, any other form of a temple, Jewish or not, is an abomination unto the Father.
 

101G

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@101G....I have to get back to the 2 witnesses where you say they are John and Jesus.....honestly that confused me....how can Jesus come and be a witness to Himself? A witness by definition is someone who can testify to the actions and characteristics of another....
I have yet to conclude in total confidence who they are.
Sure, this is why I teach "diversity". the Lord Jesus is the "another" of Godhimself in Flesh. this is what the Greeks call G243 allos. the numerical of oneself in another form, which Jesus is, the EQUAL "share" of God in flesh. as the another of himself he can witness separately.

this is why I can speak the way I do by the scriptures.

PICJAG.
 
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Heart2Soul

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As I already pointed out 101G is here to simply add confusion to this discussion. Please see my post above on the two witnesses, who are Moses and Elijah (by implication). These were the two prophets who came to speak with Jesus at His transfiguration. That is significant.
I don't agree that he is here to add confusion, how he has interpreted or discerned this is what I seek to understand...he offers a lot of wisdom in understanding scripture even if I don't comprehend it sometimes...
But as I have said before I believe we should all reason together and present our interpretation of scripture to clarify whether it is true or in err of truth.
 

101G

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maybe this can help some, maybe not all. scripture,
2 Corinthians 5:14 "For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

2 Corinthians 5:15 "And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

2 Corinthians 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

so physically, we who are in Christ know him in that way no longer. BINGO. what is portrayed is Spiritual, we must think spiritually.

PICJAG.
 
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Earburner

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As I already pointed out 101G is here to simply add confusion to this discussion. Please see my post above on the two witnesses, who are Moses and Elijah (by implication). These were the two prophets who came to speak with Jesus at His transfiguration. That is significant.
Try this out, and please leave a comment:
Luke 1[13] But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias:...
[17] And he [John] shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias [Elijah], to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
 
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Heart2Soul

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Sure, this is why I teach "diversity". the Lord Jesus is the "another" of Godhimself in Flesh. this is what the Greeks call G243 allos. the numerical of oneself in another form, which Jesus is, the EQUAL "share" of God in flesh. as the another of himself he can witness separately.

this is why I can speak the way I do by the scriptures.

PICJAG.
Okay, i suppose this falls in the same category as to what I have shared about Jesus appearing in the OT before He was born in the flesh.....got some naysayers on that one as well.
Seeking His Hidden Wisdom is no easy task! But at least we are seeking!
 

101G

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I don't agree that he is here to add confusion, how he has interpreted or discerned this is what I seek to understand...he offers a lot of wisdom in understanding scripture even if I don't comprehend it sometimes...
But as I have said before I believe we should all reason together and present our interpretation of scripture to clarify whether it is true or in err of truth.
in the Name of Jesus thank you. if what I say may not agree with what someone else say then let the Spirit desern what is said of Both. for we all should "TEST" the spirit by the Spirit. it's just that easy. for God is not the author of confusion.

PICJAG.
 
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101G

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Okay, i suppose this falls in the same category as to what I have shared about Jesus appearing in the OT before He was born in the flesh.....got some naysayers on that one as well.
Seeking His Hidden Wisdom is no easy task! But at least we are seeking!
you're correct Jesus appeared in the old testament in many way, scripture. Hosea 12:10 "I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets".

now to back up what you said double of christ in the OT as God. scripture, 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

see H2S Jesus was in them, (the Prophet). how? the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, who Jesus is. anther scripture to support this.
2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. BINGO, (there he is, JESUS, the Holy Spirit in the prophet, speaking in them, just as the apostle Peter said in 1:10 & 11)

Jesus the Christ is God, the Holy Spirit in flesh as son who is Speaking to us today as "SON". Hebrews 1:1 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

Hebrews 1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds"


H2S we suggest you write these scriptures down for future reference.

PICJAG.
 

101G

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This is COMPLETELY FALSE.

There will indeed by a visible, physical AND spiritual, redeemed and restored, nation (or kingdom) of Israel UNDER CHRIST after His Second Coming. The twelve tribes will be settled in Greater Israel (from the Nile to the Euphrates), and there will be a fourth and ultimate temple in Jerusalem.

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. (Acts 1:6,7)

ROMANS 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
EARBURNER is correct, that's why one must be, have to be, got to be BORN again, .... of the Spirit. you sound just like Nicodemus, catering to the flesh.

one must RENEW their mind. Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Enoch111, take notice,
Romans 8:5 "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Romans 8:6 "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Romans 8:8 "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


PICJAG.
 
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101G

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6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.

How can they be John the Baptist and Jesus?
symbolism, symbolism, symbolism,
Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John".

PICJAG.
 
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ScottA

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@101G....I have to get back to the 2 witnesses where you say they are John and Jesus.....honestly that confused me....how can Jesus come and be a witness to Himself? A witness by definition is someone who can testify to the actions and characteristics of another....
I have yet to conclude in total confidence who they are.
In common terms for understanding, the two witnesses are "the Jew first then the Greek", which are made manifest in Israel and the gentiles, in the flesh and then in the spirit.

Or as John explains, their are "three" in heaven that are [one], and "three" on earth that are [one]...which makes two: 1+1=2.

"This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one." 1 John 5:6-8​
 

Heart2Soul

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you're correct Jesus appeared in the old testament in many way, scripture. Hosea 12:10 "I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets".

now to back up what you said double of christ in the OT as God. scripture, 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

see H2S Jesus was in them, (the Prophet). how? the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, who Jesus is. anther scripture to support this.
2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. BINGO, (there he is, JESUS, the Holy Spirit in the prophet, speaking in them, just as the apostle Peter said in 1:10 & 11)

Jesus the Christ is God, the Holy Spirit in flesh as son who is Speaking to us today as "SON". Hebrews 1:1 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

Hebrews 1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds"


H2S we suggest you write these scriptures down for future reference.

PICJAG.
Yes, I agree with what you shared and it is another reason why I believe Jesus appeared many times in the OT.
I copy and paste to a folder on my computer things I want to save for more review...thanks!
 

farouk

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Yes, I agree with what you shared and it is another reason why I believe Jesus appeared many times in the OT.
I copy and paste to a folder on my computer things I want to save for more review...thanks!
Christ is most gloriously in all the Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, indeed! :)
 
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farouk

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Okay, i suppose this falls in the same category as to what I have shared about Jesus appearing in the OT before He was born in the flesh.....got some naysayers on that one as well.
Seeking His Hidden Wisdom is no easy task! But at least we are seeking!
Paul to the Corinthians said: "Of are ye in Christ Jesus, Who of God is made unto us wisdom..." (1 Cor. 1.20).
 
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Heart2Soul

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As I already pointed out 101G is here to simply add confusion to this discussion. Please see my post above on the two witnesses, who are Moses and Elijah (by implication). These were the two prophets who came to speak with Jesus at His transfiguration. That is significant.
@Enoch111 I failed to say that you bring alot of wisdom to the forum as well....I didn't mean to sound biased....I appreciate your zeal to share your beliefs and wisdom of His Word.