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Featured Revelation 11-the measure of the temple

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Heart2Soul, Jan 11, 2020.

  1. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member

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    Summary and Conclusion....cont'd...

    Submitted by:
    @brakelite: And you'll know that as an adventist I was always going to offer something different...
    Revelation 11 Commentary
    The above commentary must be seen in perspective as a chronological piece around the turn of the 18th century... The end of the 1260 years of papal supremacy in Europe, and the total rejection of God in the French revolution... The destruction of all Christian literature and the burning of Bibles and subsequent establishment of atheism and secular humanism as an official government sponsored belief system developing into communism, and the resulting persecution against God's people.

    @Base12: In the Tabernacle in the Wilderness, the Outer Court contained two main items of significance...
    1) Brazen Laver
    2) Brazen Altar

    If we were to look into the deeper meanings of said items, we would find that they represent a type of dichotomy.
    The Brazen Laver would represent the Sea of Glass while the Brazen Altar would represent the Lake of Fire.
    Personally, I've always viewed Outer Darkness, and those that are 'bundled' in it, as a temporary storage area before burning.
    This scenario would fit in with the Brazen Altar and the 'Slaughter Tables' of sacrifices that wait to be burned.
    Thus, the Brazen Laver/Sea of Glass are the Wheat (Saved) that are to be cleaned while the Brazen Altar/Lake of Fire are the Tares (Unsaved) that are to be burned.

    @Helen: I believe the outer court is just " the rest of the gang" that make it in by the skin of their teeth...
    Where God does measure it is what He is interested in... perfection ( not of ourselves) and union -with the Son . The measure of all those who overcame.

    Continued on next post:
     
  2. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I have noticed before that you succumbed to that sickness. How did you deal with it?

    If one is a teacher of the Bible, or preacher of the Bible, he had better believe he is right. There are areas where there is room for give and take. But there are areas where there is not.

    If I am sitting in a Bible class and the teacher isn't sure if he is right or wrong, then I am gone. Your statement reminds me of going to a Bible class and the teacher reads some Scripture and asks everyone what does this mean to you? And everyone has a different opinion about what it means. And everyone leaves more confused then when they got there.

    I am not interested in everyone's opinion. I am interested in what it means. Don't misrepresent me here. God uses and speaks His Word to the believer. If a believer comes up to me and says 'God has really spoken to me in these verses'. I am not going to cross examine to see if their understanding of the verses is correct. The main point at that time is that God spoke to them using those verses. And I rejoice with them.

    But, when it comes time to teach the Bible, I want to know exactly what it means. And If I don't believe I am right, then I have no business teaching the Bible. It doesn't mean I know everything about the subject. But what I teach about it, I had better believe that it is right.

    Stranger
     
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  3. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member

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    Summary and Conclusion...cont'd

    Submitted by:
    @charity:
    'And there was given me a reed like unto a rod:
    .. and the angel stood, saying, "Rise, and measure the temple of God,
    .... and the altar, and them that worship therein.
    But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not;
    .. for it is given unto the Gentiles:
    .... and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.'
    (Revelation 11:1-2)
    This reed is a light measuring rod. The Hebrew shevet or staff also means a measuring rod (Psalms 74:2; Jeremiah 10:16; Jeremiah 51:19. In Ezekiel 40:3 etc., the object was the building of a new Temple. Here in Revelation 11:2 it is for destruction, as in Lamentations 2:8; 2 Kings 21:13; Isaiah 34:11; Amos 7:8-9. It is also, as in Revelation 11:1 for protection as in Zechariah 2:1-5. Part was holy and part profane.
    The Temple is literal, and not figurative as has been suggested. That there is to be a temple in Jerusalem is clear from 2 Thessalonians 2:4, for the Anti-Christ is to sit as God there; and 'the abomination of desolation' is to be there set up (Matthew 24:15).

    @Stan B[/USER]: Yeah, confirming the prophecy of Ezekiel, starting at chapter 40, stating the measurements of the new Temple.
    The Times of the Gentiles comes to an end after the 6th seal is opened at the end of Revelation 6, and the 144000 Jews are sealed in Rev 7. This takes place after the 6th seal is opened, and before the 7th seal is opened. The saints are not sealed because they won't be here when the 7th seal is opened [cf starting at Rev 7:9] The saints, a myriad which no man could number are taken up to Heaven, they don't need to be sealed against God's ultimate wrath directed at those who hate Him.


    If I didn't include your post it is because it didn't specifically answer the OP...


    Thank you everyone for your time to share your interpretation of scripture!
     
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  4. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member

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    Summary and Conclusion:
    Almost everyone agrees the outer court are those still unrepentive.....but what a collection of interpretations to consider!
     
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  5. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Obviously the day of the LORD did not occur on the Day of Pentecost.

    If we are prepared to accept the fact that prophecies included near and far events in the same breath, and also had double application in some cases, then all issues are resolved.

    Because of the Church Age would be intervening, the Day of the LORD is in the future. We are now in the Day of Grace. So I am taking nothing out of context. As for Malachi 4 it is indeed all about the day of the Lord, and Elijah must come BEFORE the day of the LORD.

    So getting back to Joel 2 here is how it needs to be interpreted:


    DESCRIPTION OF THE FUTURE DAY OF THE LORD
    1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;

    CORRESPONDENCE TO THE GREAT TRIBULATION (A ONE TIME EVENT)
    2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

    A TIME OF FIERY DIVINE JUDGMENTS
    3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them. 4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run. 5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.

    GREAT DISTRESS AMONG THE NATIONS
    6 Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness. 7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks: 8 Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded. 9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.

    CATACLYSMIC COMIC EVENTS PRECEDE AND FOLLOW
    10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:.. 30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. [Note: 6th seal judgments. Also verses 30 &31 belong here]

    THE DAY OF THE LORD IS GREAT AND TERRIBLE
    11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp isvery great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
    *******************************

    A CALL TO REPENTANCE FOR JOEL'S GENERATION (AND A FUTURE GENERATION)
    12 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: 13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. 14 Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God? 15 Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly: 16 Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet. 17 Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God?
    *********************************

    FUTURE REDEMPTION OF ISRAEL (THE PEOPLE)
    18 Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people. 19 Yea, the LORD will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen: 20 But I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things. [Note: See the prophecy of Ezekiel (and others)]
    FUTURE REDEMPTION OF ISRAEL (THE LAND)
    21 Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for the LORD will do great things. 22 Be not afraid, ye beasts of the field: for the pastures of the wilderness do spring, for the tree beareth her fruit, the fig tree and the vine do yield their strength. 23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month. 24 And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil. 25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you. 26 And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed. 27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed. [Note: See the prophecy of Ezekiel (and others)]

    THE OUTPOURING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT (DOUBLE APPLICATION)

    28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my Spirit... [Note: partially fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost, but verse 32 speaks of a future application at the Second Coming of Christ as well as the salvation of souls during the Church Age]

    32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
     
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  6. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member

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    This is good teaching on the 2nd Coming and The Day of the Lord....but what I was trying to emphasize is how you used these to support your point that Elijah is one of the 2 witnesses.
     
  7. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    I would love to KNOW that because I feel something is right, THAT has to be the end of any more questioning. But, I cannot stand and declare, (like some here) that of the billions who have ever lived, God chose ME to impart His ultimate wisdom to. I don't still see things the same way I did when I was 18, and as each year goes by, I find I see something different in God's world. I am pretty sure I have never said MY opinion is the only possible answer.... and I hope I never will.

    I think one of the most dangerous things we can do is to be fearful of refusing to start seeing something new In God... because we think we have to believe something we were told years ago, or else we won't be "good Christians."
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
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  8. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    You are correct H2S, THE JUDGMENT WAS ON SIN, not man. scripture, Zechariah 3:9 " For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day."

    that one day he did remove the iniquity, or as the kjv can translate it "sin"
    H5771 עָוֹן `avon (aw-vone') n-m.
    עָווֹן `avown (aw-vone') [2 Kings 7:9, Psalm 51:5 (7)]
    1. contortion.
    2. (moral) depravity.
    3. (consequence) penalty for depravity.
    [from H5753]
    KJV: fault, iniquity, mischeif, punishment (of iniquity), sin.
    Root(s): H5753

    so this day of the Lord was his vengeance on sin. supportive scripture, Isaiah 35:4 " Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you."
    clearly God came in flesh and removed sin from the land in one day. what a mighty God we serve.

    good spiritual eyes on those scriptures.

    PICJAG.
     
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  9. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    neither, you know what I believe in.

    PICJAG.
     
  10. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    Sir where did you get this from?
     
  11. Base12

    Base12 Active Member

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    I made those particular slides myself.

    If you find this subject as fascinating as I do, there are others that have done this type of research as well...



    Note that Pastor Mike links the Mitochondria to the Brazen Altar. I link Mitochondria to the Candlestick.
     
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  12. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    I would be particularly interested in how the Tabernacle links the reader to Christ, in His blessed Person and work. Hebrews is a wonderful Epistle.
     
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  13. Base12

    Base12 Active Member

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    The connections are practically endless. One of my favorite links is this verse...

    John 1:14 (Young's Literal Translation)
    "And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth"


    The Word of God is DNA. That DNA formed the Tabernacle in the Wilderness which is a picture of a Biological Cell.

    Who's Cell? Jesus...

    Hebrews 10:20
    "By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh"


    It is a picture of the Moment of Conception inside Mary's Womb.

    The Ark of the Covenant is the Nucleolus or 'Command Center' of the Cell. That is where Jesus appears.

    The Two Cherubim represent the two strands of DNA in each of us...

    [​IMG]

    When the High Priest enters the Most Holy Place on the Day of Atonement and sprinkles Blood, it represents two Seeds becoming One...

    Ephesians 5:31
    "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh"


    In the case of Jesus, we know there wasn't an Earthly Father, thus the High Priest also represents a type of Holy Genetic Engineer who has the authorization to perform the task of Immaculate Conception using Spiritual Seed...

    [​IMG]

    Note that this happens once a year to show how special this occasion is.

    :)
     
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  14. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    Interesting; actually the term is Incarnation rather than Immaculate Conception - a term not recognized as Biblical by Protestants, and which refers to Mary, supposedly.
     
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  15. Base12

    Base12 Active Member

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    Oh, I see. Thanks for the clarification.
     
  16. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    From what you've said, I thought you were one or the other.

    But if neither, then, no, I don't know what you believe.
     
  17. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    Enoch111,
    As for John the Baptist coming in the spirit of Elijah, I cannot, and will not deny the Lord's words of evidence concerning Malachi 4:5-6.

    One thing I have learned in all the years of reading the Bible, especially Revelation, we are looking at the mind of God speaking to us 3 dimensionally, being that of past, present and future all at the same time.
    Along with that, I also know that my mind is extremely limited in that manner of thinking, and therefore I allow myself to be guided by His Holy Spirit explicitly for His interpretation, knowing that Isaiah 55:8-9 is always true.

    So then, in all honesty, I cannot say that I have arrived to the fulness of His Truth, but as to what I have learned of His Truth, I shall and do speak it with His assurance and authority.

    The biggest hindrance to me, in learning the Lord's meaning of His truth, has been the preconcieved ideas and religious commentary by men of scholarly learning. No longer do I run to them, nor do I care to.
    I have learned that He is faithful to guide us into all His truth, without the continual aid of what learned men say.

    In our experience of being born again by His Spirit, many of us do learn much of what we know through the current doctrines of the churches that we attend.
    In many ways, their indoctrinated teaching and preaching run along two separate conduits of thinking, premillennial or amillennial.

    By those two perspectives alone, we filter much of what we read and study through those realms of thought. However, as would be expected, each of those conduits of thinking do deliver us to opposite ends of the spectrum, whereby is the reason of how it is that we all are often in opposition to each other.

    So then in conclusion, years ago I began my walk in the Lord according to the Premillennial view, but now, and ever so gradually, I am now firmly planted in the Amillennial view. Not because I chose it to be so, but rather I learned to "rest in Him", and let Him "deliver" me!
     
  18. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't need to be the end of any more questioning as you will always add more knowledge to what you know on the subject.

    As to 'something new in God', I'm not sure what you mean. 1.) Do you mean 'new' in the sense that you learned God is different than what you have known Him to be? 2.) Or do you mean 'new' in the sense that you have learned something more about God that adds to what you already know about Him? I think all will agree with the 2nd. But as to the 1st, you must be careful, and, you must be able to support it in the Scripture.

    In other words, 'new' in the 1st sense means you were taught wrong about God in the first place, but in your study of the Bible, and growth as a Christian you have found that God is not the way you were taught. That certainly can happen, but as I said, must be on solid Scriptural ground.

    As to the 2nd sense of 'new', it means that you were taught right in the first place and in your study of the Bible and growth as a Christian, you continue to add to that knowledge that you have obtained about God.

    Learning about God is a great thing. I am convinced that throughout all eternity we shall always be learning about God. It is one of those unfathomable thoughts that we can have. Makes me wonder, will we still be studying the Bible in Heaven? I am inclined to believe we will. My opinion.

    Stranger
     
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  19. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
    Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
    Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
    Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
    Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
    Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
    Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
    Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
    Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
    Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
    Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
    Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

    God will save Israel its His promise to them
     
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  20. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    The ONLY standing promise left to the Jews is Jesus! Other than that, there is no other hope for them!!

    If in any Jew's lifetime, they have neglected to come to Christ for the forgiveness/removal of sins and the Gift of God's salvation, they are LOST forever.

    Heb. 2[3] How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
     
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