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Revelation was written during Nero's reign before 70AD

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by AServantofJC, May 24, 2013.

  1. AServantofJC

    AServantofJC New Member

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    Again -- continuing with the primary focus of this thread which is (1) to “encourage” “some” with hearts that can hear so they might seek God's vision, courage, wisdom and strength on how to stand-against “doctrines-of-men”, which “all” immature believers have tended to unwittingly endorse in our past seasons, but which “always” confuse and slander the simplicity of the gospel of Jesus, especially to those who are among Jesus' lost-prodigal sheep, and (2) to also provoke “some” to greater love and good works encouraged in Hebrews 10:23-25 via the question:

    Is “anyone” reading this thread working alongside Jesus' Saints to make themselves and their culture ready for the blessed hope to occur as it is taught in Titus 2:13?

    And are many seeking to be like “righteous” Abraham whenever his testimony in Hebrews 11:10 says: “For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.”?

    And are many taking time to consider becoming a more integral-part in working alongside the heavenly host of highly educated and technological angels that sacrificed for ages to build the New Jerusalem that Abraham looked forward to seeing and what we “all” might see someday as seen in the attached image to Post #61 “NewJerusalem ForTheSaints _gif.gif” and as taught in Revelation 21 and by a Holy and faith-filled Paul in Colossians 1:20?

    We should pray that those who would read this thread would be willing to “prayerfully” consider the plausibility that the Book of Daniel was possibly completed several hundred years after “Daniel” lived in Babylon, and therefore was possibly compiled during the Macabean Period in Israel when a non-relational fear of God and a zealous adherence to the “Law” was being taught and rigidly enforced by the ruling scribes and Levites of that day, in what was possibly a similar way that Islam is currently being taught and enforced in our present generation.

    After the Jews returned from Babylon this Macabean War period culminated in a very accurate fulfillment of the scripture in Isaiah 29:13 that says: “Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the (precept) doctrines of men.”

    Which then usshered in the incarnation of Jesus fulfilling the next verse in Isaiah 29:14 that says: Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, even a marvelous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

    Subsequently Jesus' ministry exposed the hardened non-relational hearts that continued to rule over the Jewish culture, until Jesus wept when so few souls garnered the courage and faith to yield their whole-hearts to God's love, that was being manifested by Jesus' life and miracles, which then resulted in the fulfillment of Matthew 13:13-16 that says: “Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.”

    Ultimately God's Holy Spirit and His angles were grieved and overwhelmed by the hardness within the Jewish culture, which then resulted in the diaspora of the Christian community prior to the holocaust of Jerusalem in 70AD, which was the outcome of the continual manipulations of The Devil Beelzebub working through many men who had become all-powerful rulers in these two warring cultures.

    Let us continually pray that today's American Christian culture would never grieve God's Holy Spirit as severely as what occurred in 70AD and also in other cultures throughout history. Let us continually pray that the scripture in James 2:13 [*] would be fulfilled to the uttermost in our behalf by our Lord's heavenly host working in concert with His Saints.

    [*: James 2:13 Because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful, (howbeit) mercy triumphs over judgment.]

    We are all in training to be a little more like Jesus every day, one day and one step at a time.

    Again, thank you everyone for your posts and prayers. They will eventually be fruitful towards everyone who might someday read this thread.

    Shalom in Jesus,
    A Servant of Jesus Christ
    AJCServant
    John 10&15&17 & Revelation 21


    2 Peter 3:10&18 -- But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. . . . Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

    <><> <><
    PPS - Any further "edifying", "wholesome" and helpful comments anyone?
     
  2. DaDad

    DaDad Member

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    Hi ASoJC,

    Jesus told the church to understand the Book of Daniel (Matt 24:15), in expectation for HIS return, but you decline my invitation to evaluate that text.

    Is there a different "appearance" which you seek?



    Furthermore, Walvoord titled his book, "Daniel, the Key to Prophetic Revelation", so I would suggest that you cannot comprehend the Book of Revelation without understanding the Book of Daniel.

    And in this case, the church is bereft of historical sequence, associations, affiliations, timelilnes, and dates.

    DaDad
     
  3. AServantofJC

    AServantofJC New Member

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    Again - - continuing with the primary focus of this thread - -

    <><

    I have been taught by Jesus' Holy Spirit to never answer “directly” certain types of religious persons, and we should all strive to mentor this same sensible-wisdom to others.

    As also the Holy Spirit would teach us all to never “fellowship” with an obviously “unrepentant” “railer” or a “scorner” via the following scriptures:

    <>

    1 Corinthians 5:11 - - But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

    Proverbs 9:8 - - Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

    2 Timothy 2:15-16 - - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness. (ESV) (KJV) 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

    <><

    Albeit for the sake of all the dearly beloved who would ever read this singular-note, it is NOT “blasphemy” to recognize that the following scriptures are Holy infallible truisms when taught via the Holy comforter from Heaven above:

    <>

    For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. - - Isaiah 55:8-9

    What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. - - Romans 3:9-11

    For we see now through a dim window obscurely, but then face to face; now I know partially, but then I shall know according as I also have been known. - - 1 Corinthians 13:12-Darby

    What advantage then hath the Jew? … Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar. - - Romans 3:1-4

    And most importantly:

    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. - - Ephesians 6:12

    <><

    So that as a result of “rightly-dividing” the scriptures, many will eventually be taught by our Lord's noble Berean types of disciples how they “should” discern that “all” of mortal-mens' viewpoints of (1) our Heavenly Father's eternally changeless character and (2) His Shekhinah nature and (3) His hopes for “all” of mankind - have always been taught from a “fallible” viewpoint as through an obscure window, [+++] and therefore would eventually become the various “tares” or “doctrines-of-men” that are being continually exposed to us all by Jesus' Spirit as He would fruitfully minister to His children via the Holy scriptures.

    [+++: For we see now through a dim window obscurely, but then face to face; now I know partially, but then I shall know according as I also have been known. - - 1 Corinthians 13:12-Darby]

    All “unconverted” “unforgiving” [+] teachers are therefore oftentimes bigoted or railers or scornful in their viewpoints towards those cultures or individuals or whomever these teachers would promote as being more sinful than themselves, when at the same time their teachings would be “obviously” blasphemous towards (1) the considerable sacrificial efforts of the celestial Heavenly Host [++] to sift and chasten in training-up leadership who could stand in the gap against Beelzebub's wiles, and (2) then at the same time their view would also be blasphemous towards our Shekhinah God's eternal vision for us “all,” as Jonah was nigh to being blasphemous towards God's vision - - except for God's grace that corrected his “unforgiving” [+] and hateful views towards a “sinful” Nineveh, that previously had mostly been enslaved to accomplishing Beelzebub's destructions and demoralizations of many of our Heavenly Father's sheep.

    [+: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. - - Matthew 6:15]

    [++: Bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to heap abuse on celestial beings. - - 2 Peter 2:10 & Jude 1:8 - - These ungodly people ... heap abuse on celestial beings.]

    <><

    As a more obvious example of “blasphemy” towards our “immeasurably” loving Creator God, that is even more distinctly obvious than the numerous “flawed” scriptures that have been “compiled” into the book of Daniel, and have subsequently been taught therefrom as being infallible history and unrepentable prophecies, it should be even more obvious that it is blasphemous whenever some teachers have “insisted” upon the King James version of 1Samuel 6:19 rather-than the NIV, ESV, NLT, Darby and Young's translations of this verse.

    {For clarifications on this particular “tare” as a “doctrine-of-men” issue see: 1Samuel 6:19 Parallel and for various commentaries see the web page: <> biblehub.com/1_samuel/6-19.htm <> or via a browser search of: <> 50,070 from Beth-Shemesh killed for their sin as it was written in 1Samuel 6:19 KJV <>.}

    The Holy would teach that it NOT blasphemy to teach others that it is NOT our Creator God's foreordained perfect-will that 1/3 rd of the persons in the earth will be burnt up prior to the second coming of Jesus, without any “hope” that the-Church could rise up and effectively stand-in-the-gap against Beelzebub's efforts to promote his “predestined” “foreordained” judgments, as the-Church is now actively accomplishing this Holy vision from God in our present generation.

    Therefore as Jesus and Paul and Peter continually mentored others, it is NOT blasphemy to teach what many others have recognized are “doctrines-of-men” or “tares” that are being taught via the scriptures. Where in God's wisdom “tares” as “doctrines-of-men” have been “allowed” to be within the scriptures so that all “converted” believers could be taught to seek for a continual covenant- relationship with their Creator, whereby they would not be ashamed on their final day whenever they would have continually sought-out and “discerned” truth from error. While these would also have endured until the end of the sifting of their life-efforts, until they might eventually rise above the burnable tares at the end of this age, at which time it is our Creator's hope that “all” would have been reconciled and received Jesus as Lord and then that none would be burnt up and annihilated via hell's fires during the next scheduled sterilization event.

    The cross of Jesus was foreordained from before Adam and Eve with the “potential” to save “all” of mankind past, present and future, IF “all” would eventually be willing to repent and obey the gospel.

    What fallible men have written IS NOT the whole-truth, but whatever Jesus' Spirit continually would teach and promote concerning what is written within the scriptures IS the whole-truth.

    Let us continually pray that today's American Christian culture would never grieve God's Holy Spirit as severely as what occurred in 70AD. Let us continually pray that the scripture in James 2:13 [+] would be fulfilled to the uttermost [++] in our behalf by our Lord's heavenly host working in-concert with His Saints who would strive to continually be His joint-heirs in building up His Kingdom throughout the “whole” earth as John 3:16 and 17 [+++] would encourage.

    [+: James 2:13 - - Because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful, (howbeit) mercy triumphs over judgment .]

    [++: Colossians 1:20 - - And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.]

    [+++: John 3:16-17 - - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.]

    We are all in training to be a little more like Jesus every day, one day and one step at a time.

    Again, thank you everyone for your posts and prayers. They will eventually be fruitful towards everyone who might someday read this thread.

    Shalom in Jesus,
    A Servant of Jesus Christ
    AJCServant
    John 10&15&17 & Revelation 21


    2 Peter 3:10&18 -- But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. . . . Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

    PS - My fervent prayer are that some would take time to consider becoming a more integral-part in working alongside the heavenly host of highly educated and technological angels that sacrificed for ages to build the New Jerusalem that Abraham looked forward to seeing, and what we “all” might see someday as seen in the attached image to Post #61 “NewJerusalem ForTheSaints _gif.gif” and as taught in Revelation 21 and by a Holy (i.e. set-apart-for-service) and faith-filled Paul in Colossians 1:20?

    <><> <><
    PPS - Any further "edifying", "wholesome" and helpful comments anyone?
     
  4. DaDad

    DaDad Member

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    “[The] five of whom are fallen [presumes John’s work to be written in] Vespasian’s reign. Titus is to come, but only to last for a short time. Perhaps the writer knew of the hopeless condition of Titus’ health. He is therefore either using a literary convention, and assuming an earlier date than is the fact to give his words the force of a prophecy concerning Titus, or, more likely, his is using here material written in Vespasian’s reign which partly suits his purpose and partly not; for there are very good reasons for thinking that this book was written, not in Vespasian’s reign, but in Domitian’s.”[1]


    [1] Eiselen, Frederick, Edwin Lewis, & David Downey, The Abingdon Bible Commentary, Abingdon Press, NY, 1929 p. 1392





    Per the above I would argue that neither presentation is correct. Have you considered a historically comprehensive interpretation?

    Take for example the fact that Daniel 2:45 uses the sequence 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE. So how is it that Daniel 7 is presumed to parallel Chapter 2, when we clearly know that FIVE [SIZE=12pt]≠[/SIZE] FOUR? And how is it that of the FOUR, we have a Lion/Leopard/Bear, exactly as depicted in Rev. 13? And if Rev. 13 presents the seven heads, then how they are the seven mountains/kings of Rev. 17, which includes the eighth, WHICH IS THE BEAST in Rev. 13?

    And of course, the 10 horns are historically identified as of August, 1993.



    Hope this helps,
    DaDad
     
  5. AServantofJC

    AServantofJC New Member

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    Again - - continuing with the primary focus of this thread - -

    To better highlight what I have been taught, I posted these views previously because it is the crux of why I post what I do.

    So this is my focus.

    <><

    I have subsequently recognized via 1Corinthians 13:8 that in God's sovereignty He can choose any prophecies-of-men to “fail” (i.e. katargeo) “if” in His wisdom that would glorify Him in a greater way than bringing judgment upon sin for our hard-hearts and stiff-necks and evil and perverse ways. So that what I have been taught by the infallible Holy Spirit teaching me via the “Holy” scriptures, is that since we do not fight with flesh and blood but ultimately with a rebellious spiritual realm led by the-devil-Beelzebub, scripture teaches in James 2:13 that “mercy will triumph over judgment” for our culture and the entire world “only-when” more disciples would “mature” in their good-news-gospel messages. And would then obey and “mentor” the Golden Rule, and not condone slanders of God's eternal vision for us all, or “public” slanders of one another's life-efforts that are obviously sacrificial to promote virtue and courage into the world without taking a few moments to hear-out or understand their offenders point of view on a particular offense. And thereby would most likely unwittingly also slander our Shekhinah Creator's eternal nature and His eternal sacrificial efforts in our behalf, and or also slander His “quickened” celestial angels in spite of their difficult assignments to sift and chasten our Father God's leaders-in-training. Similar to what was “needful” for the wealthy Job for him to become a better “mentor” [+] again, so that his “entire” family would one-day become a "righteous" “eternal” inheritance awaiting him in Heaven after he would see Jesus on his final day. [*a]

    [+: Job 42:10 - - After Job had prayed for his friends, the LORD restored his fortunes and gave him twice as much as he had before.]

    [*a: Proverbs 29:18 and Hosea 4:6 and Ephesians 4:30 and Psalm 111:10 and Proverbs 1:7 & 9:10]

    Proverbs 29:18 - - Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.

    Hosea 4:6 - - My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

    Ephesians 4:30 - - And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

    Psalm 111:10 - - The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

    Proverbs 1:7 - - The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

    Proverbs 9:10 - - The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

    <><

    In Jesus love,
    AJCServant
     
  6. DaDad

    DaDad Member

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    Interesting. You won't engage when I bring up a greater concept, and won't engage when I revert to the opening post.

    Is the "primary focus of this thread" that you want to post, but not discuss?!?



    DaDad
     
  7. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, AServantofJC.

    I am QUITE ready - and ANXIOUS - for our Lord Yeshua` to return!

    I'm quite amazed at the translations that you have shown for Titus 2:13. Does no one understand that the word for "hope" is not just a "wish for it" mentality but rather a "confident assurance" of His coming? The word doesn't imply "I hope He'll come back soon"; it implies "I KNOW He'll come back soon!"
     
  8. Poppin

    Poppin New Member

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    Well, i am not an hyper-preterist.
    but i believe this was fulfilled, as foretold in Daniel's prophecy of the 70 weeks, in 70AD.
    I do believe in a literal Second Coming of Christ to the general resurrection and judgment - and then eternity.

    Luke 21
    The Destruction of Jerusalem
    21"Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; 22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. 23"Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people;

    i understand futurism places this, well...in our future, but i do not read that in scripture. and that's okay.
    God Bless you all,
    Poppin
     
  9. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    Since 'some' here are apparently losing face with their false Preterist ideas that the Daniel 70 weeks prophecy was fulfilled in 70 A.D. by the Romans destroying Jerusalem, someone like you suddenly appears here on this Forum to specifically address this subject???

    I don't believe you are who you say you are. Anyone... can come here under another assumed identity. It's easy to have multiple email accounts so as to sign up under various names.
     
  10. AServantofJC

    AServantofJC New Member

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    Hi Retrobyter,

    I am also expectantly-looking-forward to the “blessed hope.”

    Even so, I continually have trepidations concerning Jesus “soon” appearing in all His glory, most likely since my imperfected love has not yet cast out all the many fears that I have concerning those days, [*] and when and how they would begin, as this has been warned-about or has been en-couraged to us all within the scriptures.

    [*: 1 John 4:18 - - There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.]

    I just hope and pray and work in order that the tribulations that might come against “Christians” during that transition period would be radically minimized as more faithfilled-faithful would rise up to prepare the world for that day, and would more zealously strive to become salt and light as we are warned to become lest we would be cast out and trampled under the feet of men during those tribulating times that are coming. [**]

    <><

    [**: Matthew 5:13-16 - - Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
    <>
    1 Peter 2:12 (NIV) Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day He visits us.]

    <><

    For this reason I have posted what I have, with the faith that my Lord would be eternally glorified by my sacrificial efforts.

    We are all in training to be a little more like Jesus every day, one day and one step at a time.

    Again, thank you everyone for your posts and prayers. They will eventually be fruitful towards everyone who might someday read this thread.

    Shalom in Jesus,
    A Servant of Jesus Christ
    AJCServant
    John 10&15&17 & Revelation 21

    2 Peter 3:10&18 -- But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. . . . Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

    PS - My fervent prayer are that some would take time to consider becoming a more integral-part in working alongside the heavenly host of highly educated and technological angels that sacrificed for ages to build the New Jerusalem that Abraham looked forward to seeing, and what we “all” might see someday as seen in the attached image to Post #61 “NewJerusalemm ForTheSaints _gif.gif” and as taught in Revelation 21 and by a Holy (i.e. set-apart-for-service) and faith-filled Paul in Colossians 1:20. PPS - As written in the aforementioned gif file, what radically enlightened me to Beelzebub's powerfully enslaving “hatred” towards our Shekhinah Creator's vision for us all, was in the fact that the largest pyramid ever built was exactly 1/10,000th the dimensions of New Jerusalem. So let us rise up and overcome evil with good and thereby work alongside the Heavenly Host in a much greater way in annihilating the works of the devil in our earth. His Kingdom come His will be done in the earth as it is done in Heaven, Amen, come quickly Lord Jesus.

    <><> <><
    PPPS - Any further "edifying", "wholesome" and helpful comments anyone?


    Hi DaDad,

    It has taken a while for me to prayerfully respond to your desire to “discuss” some of the nuances within my efforts or your wish to “debate” with me one-on-one via this thread.

    Since I have tried to “only” post truisms that were not debatable, I have been praying about how to respond in a way that would not promote any ungodliness from me via this website, since the following verse is one of my life-goals.

    <><

    2 Timothy 2:15-16 - - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness. (ESV) (KJV) 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

    <><

    As I have written previously my focus for this thread has been to work to expose the apocalyptic doctrines-of-men that are obviously “fatalistic” to our Christian culture by slandering our Shekhinah Creator God's character nature and vision for us all; in a similar way that our Father God's character and nature was slandered by the Jewish religious leader- teachers in Israel after their return from Babylon, through the Macabean War Period and during Jesus lifetime and up until the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.

    And so are obviously NOT doctrines from our Father God in Heaven since they cause theological confusions amongst all believers, and also with unbelievers, which then promotes a Laodicean lethargy for our end times generation to not strive to maintain a continual covenant communion relationship with their Father God in Heaven and then also with His Heavenly Host.

    So that ultimately my goal is to proclaim the good news about my Lord's infinite eternal vision hope and love for each and all of us, as best as I might be able.

    What I have been taught in my few years is that when the gospel of Christ Jesus is preached, oftentimes by using one's testimony as a personal “witness” to God's manifested love in one's own life, then one's theology being inerrant dogma is never the important issue. This should be especially helpful to encourage us all with our present imperfect “knowledge” about our Creator and our eternal life to come, since there is much work to be done in this generation, and we know our theology will never be perfected until the prophecies in 1Corinthians 13 are fulfilled in their entirety.

    What edifies a struggling soul is the simple truth that a loving creator God is amongst us on a daily or oftentimes a moment by moment basis if we are one of His obedient sheep, and He will then be working alongside us all to thwart the Devil's, i.e. Beelzebub's, wiles to destroy His creations in the earth, or to eternally demoralize our Heavenly Father's more immature children.

    Our Shekhinah God is Holy and pure and all goodness and all love and is unchangeable and infinitely good all the time, and He has an eternal joyful vision for us “all” that began from ages past and will continue into our eternity in the future with Him, that will be fulfilled for “all” of us “IF” we are “all” “willing” to “love” Him and “forgive” no matter what has occurred during our personal warfare with Beelzebub's minions, whereby all of mankind will have had a major part in this war, until the following scriptures are all fulfilled that say.

    <><

    1 Corinthians 13:10 - - But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

    1 John 3:8 - - He that committeth sin is of the devil, for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

    Matthew 16:18 - - And I say also unto thee, . . . I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    Colossians 1:20 - - And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

    2 Corinthians 5:17-20 (17) Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, that person is a new creation. The old has gone, the new is here! (18) All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: (19) that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. (20) We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.

    <><

    In spite of how imperfect our theology and knowledge is at the time we might ever “attempt” to convey the simple gospel of our Father God's “infinite” love towards His prodigal children, the simplicity [*] of the gospel is what is important to be conveyed and mentored to others, in order that 2 Timothy 2:16+ and 2 Peter 3:18+ would then be fulfilled for that occasion, and that one's own ineptitude or “sin” would never be able to totally cloud up the all-important and eternally fruitful message of the gospel of Christ Jesus our eternal Savior, Lord, Priest, and King.

    <><

    [*: 2 Corinthians 11:3 - - But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.]

    +Ultimately these are the two key scripture texts that I continually use to guide these efforts.

    2 Timothy 2:15-16 (15) Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (16) But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness. (ESV) (KJV) (16) But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

    2 Peter 3:10&18 -- But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. . . . Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

    <><

    For the world to change in a measure that Jesus' sacrifices deserves, all believers must become better more fruitful evangelists that would strive to mentor the disciplines that the gospel message would elicit from our lives.

    Especially I have been taught by Jesus' Holy Spirit to never answer “directly” certain types of religious persons, or to ever “debate” with them what I have been taught by my Lord - as best as I am able to "hear" His voice and discern His wisdom, and we should all strive to mentor this same sensible-wisdom to others.

    As also the Holy Spirit would teach us all to never “fellowship” with an obviously “unrepentant” “railer” or a “scorner” via the following scriptures:

    1 Corinthians 5:11 - - But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

    Proverbs 9:8 - - Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

    <>
    Scripture is plain that what believing disciples need to “recruit” and "mentor", i.e. "disciple", via our life efforts are more "converting" "believers" who would be like Paul and Peter and Jesus in standing against “doctrines-of-men” for what they are, i.e. "tares" via the scriptures, that hinder the building-up, i.e. "strengthening", of the courage and virtuousness within Jesus' inheritances.

    This is the reason why Revelation 21 was written exactly as it has been written in order to en-courage believers to be better “mentoring” disciples themselves, who would then strive to help other faithful men to disciple themselves as well.

    Ultimately whenever we would fail ourselves or others in the eternity ahead, Jesus will eternally be our good shepherd, who will eternally be watching over us amongst the much more disciplined Heavenly Host, since in comparison we will oftentimes be similar to stupid fearful and inept sheep, at least for a few thousand years I think.

    While mankind is still here on the earth our Creator God “will-be” glorified in spite of Beelzebub's wiles, and Jesus has made the way for anyone to glorify His father through a simple acceptance of His Lordship and by simply becoming a member of Jesus' flock of sheep in order to have eternal life in Heaven, even if receiving Jesus as Lord on one's final day occurred in a similar manner as the thief on the cross, or in the powerfully persuasive way as Paul being struck blind on the road to Damascus. The thief on the cross was a prodigal son that was accepted into His creator's home on his final day, although his relationship- inheritances in Heaven were possibly fairly meager, except for his testimony while on his cross that was written into the scriptures.

    As written in Revelation 21:8 there will be no immorality or debauchery in Heaven because no one will be “tempted” in our thoughts by Beelzebub's minions as we have oftentimes been tempted in the earth. And there will be no non-virtuous cowards there because we will “all” have eternal life and will continually be encouraged by God's joyful presence to pursue the prudence and virtue that comes with that form of life when working alongside Jesus and His Heavenly Host. Revelation 21:8 was “allowed” into the scriptures not so that “religious” people would promote scornful bigotries against prodigal sinners, but to encourage prodigals to make the right choices, so that they would not be ashamed when they would see Jesus on their final day, (as Paul and the thief on the cross once were ashamed of their past life), at which time Beelzebub would no longer have influence over their life in the flesh. For all of mankind, past present and future, accepting Jesus' love for them has always been and will always be how easy it will ever be to enter into His Kingdom. [+] Just say “yes” at your final moments and follow the Master homeward or one of His angels when they come for you, and one's final choice will then glorify God with their passing upward to the dwellings Jesus and the Heavenly Host had begun building for us all from before the foundations of the earth.

    [+: Matthew 20:12 - - ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’]

    So that with this eternally fruitful theology now being written into this post concerning our Shekhinah Creator's obvious infinite love for us all from His eternity past into our eternity future, rather than debating one-on-one any flawed theological nuances of my posts, (which you can write your own views anytime you wish into this thread), what would be much more fruitful in your “helping” Jesus and the Holy Spirit to stand against doctrines-of-men, would be by writing your own views that would be easily received by others, without being “disrespectful” towards anyone for their own views and sacrificial efforts.

    For instance from my previous post do you believe that when the editors for the King James' Version inserted an additional 50,000 into the original text in 1Samuel 6:19, that their “viewpoint” then immediately became a “doctrine-of-men” and a “tare” concerning the whole-truth that would set men free about our Creator God's eternal nature and changeless character?

    {For clarifications on this particular “tare” as a “doctrine-of-men” issue see: 1Samuel 6:19 Parallel and for various commentaries see the web page: <> biblehub.com/1_samuel/6-19.htm <> or via a browser search of: <> 50,070 from Beth-Shemesh killed for their sin as it was written in 1Samuel 6:19 KJV <>.}

    I hope and pray that this lengthy note helps you to understand why I have chosen to not “sin” by debating my eternally minded theological views. I simply convey the gospel truths I have learned from the Holy Spirit of God as infallibly as I presently know to do, and I continually pray these efforts will become eternally fruitful no matter how inept I may ever be on these efforts. Especially since my own inabilities and lack of knowledge or the devil's power to make my flesh weak will oftentimes cause me to appear inept to others on most every occasion I would ever communicate with anyone.

    Let us both trust in Jesus for our individual eternal salvation and then may we continually strive to resist evil in all of its forms that we may ever see in our lives, so we each might become more abundantly fruitful in building up Jesus' inheritances within the earth.

    We are all in training to be a little more like Jesus every day, one day and one step at a time.

    Again, thank you everyone for your posts and prayers. They will eventually be fruitful towards everyone who might someday read this thread.

    Shalom in Jesus,
    A Servant of Jesus Christ
    AJCServant
    John 10&15&17 & Revelation 21


    2 Peter 3:10&18 -- But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. . . . Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

    PS - My fervent prayer are that some would take time to consider becoming a more integral-part in working alongside the heavenly host of highly educated and technological angels that sacrificed for ages to build the New Jerusalem that Abraham looked forward to seeing, and what we “all” might see someday as seen in the attached image to Post #61 “NewJerusalemm ForTheSaints _gif.gif” and as taught in Revelation 21 and by a Holy (i.e. set-apart-for-service) and faith-filled Paul in Colossians 1:20. PPS - As written in the aforementioned gif file, what radically enlightened me to Beelzebub's powerfully enslaving “hatred” towards our Shekhinah Creator's vision for us all, was in the fact that the largest pyramid ever built was exactly 1/10,000th the dimensions of New Jerusalem. So let us rise up and overcome evil with good and thereby work alongside the Heavenly Host in a much greater way in annihilating the works of the devil in our earth. His Kingdom come His will be done in the earth as it is done in Heaven, Amen, come quickly Lord Jesus.

    <><> <><
    PPPS - Any further "edifying", "wholesome" and helpful comments anyone?
     
  11. Poppin

    Poppin New Member

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    Wow. Pardon? You are saying I am someone from here from before who has come lying about who I am, and if I understand it, you're saying i came to cause trouble?
    I have never been here before. I did not know this forum existed until I made a search for a place to join, the very day i signed up. It took 2 days to be approved. You have made an assumption about me that is wrong, and this is not the right thing to do. I have never been here before.

    I understand you are opposed to the idea that all 70 weeks were fulfilled (not fulfilled in 70AD but 40 years before 70AD). But this is the majority, and orthodox view. Dispensationalism which has severed the 70th week (the very week in which Jesus accomplished His work) is the false teaching and man-made doctrine. You might believe it, but that would not cause me to be suspicious or accusing you personally of something. Who is it you think I am?
    I happen to actually truly believe the Bible teaches all 70 weeks are fulfilled, and you have decided I am somehow a bad person you knew from here, or something like that?

    veteran, i have not intended you any harm; i do not have any motives to do anything but discuss the things i believe to be true. I am sorry that you are offended, but today i see it can not be myself who has offended you, for you believe me to be someone else who may have offended you. I had hoped to fellowship and discuss reasonably the scriptures, but it is better not to communicate if you dislike me or think the worst of me. that would not be edifying for anyone, and i suppose neither of us are going to change our views on the 70 weeks.

    Am I welcome here? Even if i believe the 70 weeks are fulfilled?
    Truly saddened by this. and unsettled.
    Poppin
     
  12. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    It's more than apparent to me you aren't really who you would have many here believe.

    There's more than one here like you preaching the same junk, which sounds mostly from SDA teachings.

    And just because someone 'says' they are a believer, their 'fruits' regarding following God's Word as written or not will manifest through their words. You're doctrine has already been found lacking in that.
     
  13. DaDad

    DaDad Member

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    Hi ASoJC,

    I would strongly that if your "truisms" were TRUE then you could perform as Scripture demands:

    2 Timothy 4:2
    2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.


    I would propose that sound doctrines are easily defensible, but false doctrines are not. And so I propose that we NOT DEBATE, but rather STUDY and DISCUSS what Scripture says regarding the topics which YOU have selected,-- otherwise I would cite the following two verses:


    3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
    4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


    So do we search for TRUTH or promulgate FABLES?!?


    DaDad
     
  14. Poppin

    Poppin New Member

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    Who am I then? I told you the truth. But you say I am a liar. I just found this forum a few days ago.I have never seen it before, nor have I ever written or joined here.
    I reject Seventh Day Adventism.
    I'm not here to "preach junk"...i came to discuss the christian faith.
    So, my fruits tell you I am not a believer. I am not saved I guess, you have judged.

    And you are certain I am a deceiver, and apparently an heretic.

    I'm sorry veteran. I came here because Because i was looking for Christ's family. I live alone and wanted to share what I have learned and to learn from others. I came because I was lonely, I was thirsty.... I was hungry. I will take my leave, with much sorrow. I did not come to be hurt or accused falsely.
    God bless and keep you.
     
  15. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    Poppin, you are more than welcome here at CyB and I believe what you have said. I am also not a preterist either but believe that some passages of scripture describe the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD while other scriptures are for future events.....

    Bless you!
     
    lforrest likes this.
  16. DaDad

    DaDad Member

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    To All,

    I am in FULL AGREEMENT in welcoming Poppin, and every other sincere person who searches, defends, and pursues the TRUTH of GOD's perfect plan for HIS creation. :)


    DaDad
     
  17. AServantofJC

    AServantofJC New Member

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    Hi DaDad,

    Firstly, have you “considered” responding to the fact that the aforementioned King James Translation of 50,070 in 1 Samuel 6:19 would be an obvious doctrine of men and of devils that culminated in the 1600's, and this scripture would be seen to be this way by most every “converted” Christian's viewpoint?

    As I have posted previously, my long held viewpoint is that after being enlightened via my own teachers concerning the Greek word katargeo that Paul used in 1 Corinthians 13:8, and then also after the aforementioned gif file concerning Beelzebub's enslaving power within the ancient earth, and who is likely “almost” as powerful in our current earth as well, my Loving Father God will always be sovereign and will never “allow” any prophecies to be fulfilled in ways that the Devil or bigoted and hateful men would desire Him to fulfill them, but as His wisdom would decide, He will “allow” judgment-prophecies to be fulfilled so that many more of His “prodigal” “children” would be reconciled “back” into His “household” “eternally”. [+] And that He would be “glorified” by the punishment-chastening-judgments that He and Satan would allow Beelzebub to accomplish, which would be dependent upon the hardness of heart and evil-perversities that would be predominant in various cultures.

    [+: For considerations on this topic see the parable of the prodigal son in view of Colossians 1:20 the thief on the cross and Saul on the road to Damascus.]

    Yet I also recognize that judgment has always begun in the House of the Lord and amongst the “religious” leadership in each generation as evidenced by the Holocaust in 70AD that did not include non-legalistic Christians or rural Samaritans, but likely included legalistic Jews and Christian “Judaizers” who would have insisted that their families would remain in Jerusalem during the Jewish feast days of 70 AD even though they were surrounded by Rome's armies after they had been at war with Rome for seven bloody years.

    This is my concern about our own culture which in many circles are very dogmatic concerning Calvin's demonically inspired predestination foreordained doctrines as they are presently being taught.

    Ultimately we will each reap what we each have sown [*] when Jesus reveals the glorious city New Jerusalem as a Day-star in the eastern sky, and Beelzebub will use our own Laodicean teachings against us all so we might be manipulated by him to steal kill and destroy from Jesus' Kingdom-Building efforts all the more. So sad for all of us all if repentance does not soon occur amongst more Christians in our Christian culture. [**]

    [*: James 2:13 - - Because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful, (howbeit) mercy triumphs over judgment.]

    [**:2 Chronicles 7:14 - - If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.]

    What I “preach” against are doctrines of men that have become “obvious” to me. And I do this for the sake of the present and future readers of this thread and not necessarily for the sake of those hardened individuals who I will agree to disagree with their viewpoints since any further writings would usually cause me to sin.

    So you can also post anything you wish concerning your own views, and if I feel “my” response would be helpful to a future reader of this thread I will respond, and if I feel “my” response would NOT be helpful I will not respond but will walk away for a season until Jesus' Spirit would give me a response that should be fruitful. If that is OK with you then I encourage you to ask any questions you may wish me or anyone else to respond to, and I will pray that I or someone else may have the wisdom to understand your oftentimes “difficult” questions and views and would respond in a way that would glorify Jesus and build up His inheritances.

    Concerning your questions and viewpoints - this will be the scripture that I will always “strive” to “mentor” to others via this thread.

    2 Timothy 2:15-16 (15) Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (16) But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness. (ESV) (KJV) (16) But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

    Ultimately at the end of our days let us each have trusted in Jesus for our individual eternal salvation and then for today may we continually strive to resist evil in all of its forms that we may ever see in our lives, so we each might become more abundantly fruitful in building up Jesus' inheritances within the earth.

    We are all in training to be a little more like Jesus every day, one day and one step at a time.

    Again, thank you everyone for your posts and prayers. They will eventually be fruitful towards everyone who might someday read this thread.

    Shalom in Jesus,
    A Servant of Jesus Christ
    AJCServant
    John 10&15&17 & Revelation 21


    2 Peter 3:10&18 -- But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. . . . Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless ones and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

    PS - My fervent prayer are that some would take time to consider becoming a more integral-part in working alongside the heavenly host of highly educated and technological angels that sacrificed for ages to build the New Jerusalem that Abraham looked forward to seeing, and what we “all” might see someday as seen in the attached image to Post #61 “NewJerusalemm ForTheSaints _gif.gif” and as taught in Revelation 21 and by a Holy (i.e. set-apart-for-service) and faith-filled Paul in Colossians 1:20. PPS - As written in the aforementioned gif file, what radically enlightened me to Beelzebub's powerfully enslaving “hatred” towards our Shekhinah Creator's vision for us all, was in the fact that the largest pyramid that has ever been constructed by God's en-slaved children was exactly 1.2 Greek olympic stadia on each edge, which is exactly 1/10,000th the dimensions of New Jerusalem in Revelation 21. So let us pray for vision wisdom strength and courage and rise up and overcome evil with good as we would proclaim the simplicity of the Gospel of Christ Jesus, and thereby work alongside the Heavenly Host in a much greater way in annihilating the works of the devil in our earth. His Kingdom come His will be done in the earth as it is done in Heaven, Amen, come quickly Lord Jesus.

    <><> <><
    PPPS - Any further "edifying", "wholesome" and helpful comments anyone?
     
  18. DaDad

    DaDad Member

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    Hi ASoJC,

    I not sure why "firstly" is not "secondly". Your FIRST post made assertions with which the Abbingdon Bible Commentary disagrees. Furthermore, where the Abbingdon cannot resolve the TRUTH of the matter, I believe the solution is found in the Book of Daniel, -- as acknowledged by Walvoord's title: "Daniel, the Key to Prophetic Revelation".

    Did you want to explain, defend, and consider Rev. 17?!?


    DaDad
     
  19. AServantofJC

    AServantofJC New Member

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    Hi DaDad

    Since you did not answer my "firstly" question, let me ask some others that I hope you will answer in your next posting, but before then I will respond to your difficult to understand concerns over "when" revelation was written, even though "when" it was written has little to do with the focus of my work-efforts within this thread.

    Additional question(s) to be answered in your next post:

    What do "you" think of "our" infinitely loving Father God fulfilling apocalyptic prophecies in a perfectly "just" way that would glorify Himself to the uttermost from our "just" "punishments" at the hands of Beelzebub's minions? And if more would only seek to "improve" their hearts and their repentant efforts that would prove-out that "improvement", and would then stand in the gap via mentoring our Father God's Loving Holiness within our culture, then "all" the judgment prophecies could katargeo-fail when we would see the Daystar of New Jerusalem in the eastern sky?


    Concerning your question to me, as I wrote previously:

    AServantofJC, on 24 May 2013 - 7:11 PM, said:[​IMG]

    Revelation was written during Nero's reign before 70AD

    ...

    3 - The 6th king in Revelation 17 is the one that persecutes the saints. Roman emperors are (1) Julius, (2) Augustus, (3) Tiberius, (4) Caligula, (5) Claudius, then (6) Nero. Nero was the first and only Roman Caesar of the Julian line to persecute Christians. Nero's death ended the Julian dynasty. The one ruling after him reigned only a little while, Galba, 6 months who was the seventh.


    So to answer you if I believe Eiselen et al's views, the above post is my current view since I presently disagree with:


    [1] Eiselen, Frederick, Edwin Lewis, & David Downey, The Abingdon Bible Commentary, Abingdon Press, NY, 1929 p. 1392


    Is this OK with you?

    In Jesus love,
    A Servant of Jesus Christ
    AJCServant
    John 10&15&17 & Revelation 21
     
  20. DaDad

    DaDad Member

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    Hi ASoJC,

    If I wished to participate in a different conversation, I would have joined it. However, I merely which to participate in that which YOU initiated in the very first post of this Topic.

    As such please provide how you arrive to a sequence of "Roman emperors" (and that complete sequence) which would fulfill the Revelation 17 prophecy. It might also help if you can explain how Abbingdon arrived at an historical setting which is in apparent contradiction with your views.


    DaDad
     
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