Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth

[THE Gypsy]

Are you saying you can be saved without faith?

Surely not!

Now you're acting like a toad.

I'm saying there is no salvation through the Scriptures. There is only salvation through the blood of Christ. However, I suspect you know that.

One thing is for certain...You are treading on very thin ice when it comes to salvation. Like I said...If you do not have the basics of salvation down, nothing else you say or do matters much.

The one thing you keep avoiding regarding "rightly dividing the word of truth" is...Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2Tim 2:15 (Emphasis mine)

You really should take a good look at that one.

 

[Insight]

I'm saying there is no salvation through the Scriptures. There is only salvation through the blood of Christ. However, I suspect you know that.

Yes I do understand Gypsy, but one must go even deeper than his physical blood!

Are you with me?

Who (Jesus) being the brightness of his (Yahwehs) glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the Word of His Power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

How did Jesus overcome?

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, “through” the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Where do you go to find out about this covenant?

What passage of SCRIPTURE would you take me to understand this covenant?

Is this covenant made up of God’s Word?

What did Jesus in his death fulfil?

Take me to the everlasting covenant and prove to me salvation is not found in and through the Word of God (Scriptures).

In Phil 2:8 ​

What did Jesus become obedient to...unto death? ​

 

[THE Gypsy]

Yes I do understand Gypsy, but one must go even deeper than his physical blood!

"Deeper than His blood"? There IS nothing "deeper" than that.

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. John 15:13

Hereby perceive we the love [of God], because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down [our] lives for the brethren. 1 John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. John 3:16-17 (Did you get that? THROUGH HIM! Not the Scriptures.)

Are you with me?

No way.

 

[Insight]

"Jesus our Lord ... was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. Therefore being justified by faith (Rom 10:17), we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 5:1).

Where do we go to get this faith in Christ Jesus?

And

The spirit of Christ in Isaiah said "By his knowledge shall my Righteous Servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities" (Isa. 53:11).

Where did Jesus obtain such knowledge to justify many?

And if this be so.

"For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" (John 1:17).

Where do we go to find this grace and truth?

"Deeper than His blood"? There IS nothing "deeper" than that.

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. John 15:13

Hereby perceive we the love [of God], because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down [our] lives for the brethren. 1 John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. John 3:16-17 (Did you get that? THROUGH HIM! Not the Scriptures.)

Agreed, but look into his Blood - what did he achieve in his blood?

"The Scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith (Rom 10:17) of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe."​

.​

What did Jesus achieve that no other person ever has? And is the very reason why we have been given the Scriptures.It ios the reason why his blood can save! It is why we must zealously study the Word of Truth and take it into our hearts.
​

 

[THE Gypsy]

Agreed, but look into his Blood - what did he achieve in his blood?

"The Scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith (Rom 10:17) of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe."​

.​

What did Jesus achieve that no other person ever has? And is the very reason why we have been given the Scriptures.It ios the reason why his blood can save! It is why we must zealously study the Word of Truth and take it into our hearts.


​

If you do not know the answer to that question you really should not be trying to teach.

Again...You keep backpedaling and trying to change the subject. We are discussing SALVATION...NOT GROWTH.


​

 

[Insight]

Ok Gypsy, here is the answer.

Jesus Christ obeyed the Scriptures (John 5:17 Read all of John 14!!! John 14:10;12:49;Luk 1:2; Rev 19:13; 6:9; 1Pe 1:23,25; Heb 4:12. ) in their entirety and it was in his obedience to the Word of God which saved him from death.

Phil 2:8 should teach you clearly that Jesus Christ obeyed (the Scriptures) and was saved in his obedience.

What he obeyed was the very Word of His Father perfectly.

Now getting back to Prentis point that the Word of God as revealed through the Scriptures cannot save contradicts the very example of Jesus Christ and all those who have endeavoured to obey.

Maybe you and others here will take more notice if Jesus was here in this forum and said to you Gypsy

Matt 19:4;12:5

“Have you not read how the Apostle Paul wrote that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.”

How would you answer him?

Like Prentis?

Once again, your whole premise is wrong. All life comes from God, and all things were created in Christ, from him we draw life, not the scriptures.

Would you discount the Scriptures which come from God?

Or “I didn’t know they were that important? I would have given more time to them if I had known! I thought I was being led by the Spirit!

Jesus would be right to say “I don’t know you”

The very Word you are asked to obey is the very same Word that gives life “in” Jesus – and gave Jesus life!

A dangerous stand to make against the Almighty God and His Son.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

(1 Cor. 2:12-14): "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we “might know the things” that are freely given to us of God, which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God; for THEY ARE FOOLISHNESS UNTO HIM, neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

What have we received?

What things are we to “know”

And where do we find them?

Answer: “but the Spirit (Word) which is of God; that we might “know” the things that are freely given to us of God”

Where do we go to find such things?

Answer: The Scriptures

How are we taught?

Answer: not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth (word of the Spirit i.e Scriptures)

But how?

Answer: comparing spiritual (Scriptural) things with spiritual (Scriptural)

Within the Word is the knowing of salvation but for those who do not follow this guidance they cannot come to knowledge of salvation.

To know Christ is to have him dwelling in us i.e The Word; Scriptures of Truth. If the Truth is in you then the WORD of Christ is dwelling in your richly. Col 3:16

Like I said and will continue to say.

That Word is in the Scriptures and nowhere else.

insight

 

[THE Gypsy]

Ok Gypsy, here is the answer.

Sorry Sparky, you have no answers.

Now getting back to Prentis point that the Word of God as revealed through the Scriptures cannot save contradicts the very example of Jesus Christ and all those who have endeavoured to obey.

Prentis said no such thing.

You appear to be stuck on stupid, here, and you really should go back through and reread the dialog.

As for the rest of your post...You're blathering again. Pure nonsense.

 

[Insight]

Prentis said:

Once again, your whole premise is wrong. All life comes from God, and all things were created in Christ, from him we draw life, not the scriptures.

God said through Paul:

[sup]15[/sup] and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. [sup]16[/sup] All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, [sup]17[/sup] so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

If I am studip, I will let you reconcile Prentis with Paul.

Maybe you are partial to Prentis? I dont know the history, but clearly you have given very little in this discussion.

Insight

 

[Insight]

13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God (i.e The Scriptures).

just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word have delivered them to us,


23 since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;

Of course the Scriptures (Word) must be implanted.

That Word found for us in the Scriptures.

Its a shame we are not discussion how to implant that Word rather than arguing whether it can save us or not!

And it can save. 2 Tim 3:15

 

[Vengle]

God's ultimate goal is to write his laws in our heart. For now we need our ink and paper but we are growing toward needing it less, and eventually not at all.

Adam was able to talk to God. Adam needed no ink and paper to assist his obedience to God. He was made in God's image and all during that time before Eve was formed during which time God was bringing the animals to him to name, God spoke his word to Adam's heart. And that shows how unnatural to the way we were made having to depend on a law of detailed codes written in ink upon paper really is.

Some have yielded to the heckling of Atheists who condemn us, calling us delusional for our saying that we are able to talk to God. But we are learning to do that through the spirit.

I read one comment tonight that said the New Covenant is temporary and that when it ends the Old Law will be brought back into force. It breaks my heart to see people struggling so in their comprehension.

 

[Insight]

God's ultimate goal is to write his laws in our heart. For now we need our ink and paper but we are growing toward needing it less, and eventually not at all.

Agree

And God has given us the word in ink that it may be implanted in our hearts and minds.

In this manner we can say the Word or Scriptures can and will save us through faith in Christ Jesus.

Insight

 

[Vengle]

Amen to that Insight.

 

[Insight]

If you do not know the answer to that question you really should not be trying to teach.

Again...You keep backpedaling and trying to change the subject. We are discussing SALVATION...NOT GROWTH.


[/left]

Gypsy

If and when you are changed and Jesus is standing before you and he says enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

When you are changed in the twinkling of an eye what exactly will give you eternal life? What will immortalise you for ever?

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

I propose the very Word that you glean from your Bible will be the very Word by which you will be born anew. Now I appreciate you will say that Christ lives in us and I agree with that totally, however how does Jesus live in us?

Please consider these passages Phil 2:16 Col 3:16 Rev 1:2 Rev 20:4

If the Word of Christ (which is found in your Bible) that energised Jesus Christ, will that same Word also energise all the Saints to eternal life?

Salvation cannot be attained without that Word of Christ dwelling in us.

 

[THE Gypsy]

Prentis said:

Once again, your whole premise is wrong. All life comes from God, and all things were created in Christ, from him we draw life, not the scriptures.

God said through Paul:

[sup]15[/sup] and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. [sup]16[/sup] All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, [sup]17[/sup] so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

If I am studip, I will let you reconcile Prentis with Paul.

Maybe you are partial to Prentis? I dont know the history, but clearly you have given very little in this discussion.

Insight

I did not say you were stupid so don't imply something that is not there. All along the issue has been salvation, not growth. You seem to not be able to acknowledge that fact and just continue to "preach" about points that are irrelevant to that issue...Salvation.

As far as Prentis goes, I do not know him, however, I have seen his post woven throughout this board that are filled with humility, meekness and a desire to learn. I have also seen you attack him, multiple times, for something he did not say and when he has tried to clarify, nothing is good enough for you. It's a good thing that the only one he has to please is God. Your seat of judgement is bordering cruelty.

When you are changed in the twinkling of an eye what exactly will give you eternal life? What will immortalise you for ever?

The blood of Christ. To preach anything other than that is un-Scriptural.

I propose the very Word that you glean from your Bible will be the very Word by which you will be born anew. Now I appreciate you will say that Christ lives in us and I agree with that totally, however how does Jesus live in us?

It is Christ dwelling in us through the Holy Spirit.

If the Word of Christ (which is found in your Bible) that energised Jesus Christ, will that same Word also energise all the Saints to eternal life?

The ONLY thing that can bring "eternal life", in this context, is the blood of Christ.

The Scriptures are good for instruction, exhortation, encouragement, comfort, etc. however they do not bring SALVATION.

Salvation cannot be attained without that Word of Christ dwelling in us.

"Salvation cannot be attained without" the acceptance of the accomplishments of Christ on the cross. To teach otherwise is heresy.

And to continue to attack another Christian, in thread after thread, is unrighteous.

 

[Vengle]

Words can be a beast, hey Gypsy?

For our first hand experience in that truth we can sure appreciate that the Bible comforts us we are being taught a better language. One of purity from God.

Zephaniah 3:9 "For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent."

Proverbs 30:5 "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him."

 

[Perspectives]

You make a false association when you basically say the word of God is scriptures, and scriptures is the word of God exclusively.

The Lord HIMSELF spoke to people. Ananias did not read the scriptures to be told 'go to a street called straight', he heard it from the Lord himself! (Acts 8)

Is this extinct, Insight? Does this not happen anymore?

Salvation is in Christ, the Word, not scriptures, though the scriptures testify of him.

I hope your done with the straining at nats and swallowing of camels on this thread brother.

 

[Prentis]

I hope your done with the straining at nats and swallowing of camels on this thread brother.

God bless you, brother! :)

 

[veteran]

Why is The Word of God, Holy Writ, exclusively God's Word?

It's because God gave It through The Holy Spirit! That's why The Holy Spirit will ALWAYS agree with Holy Writ.

2 Pet 1:19-21
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
(KJV)

Someone thinking to make God's written Word as secondary is wrongly assuming they perfectly understand Holy Writ, when they do not.


2 Pet 3:1-3
1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
(KJV)


2 Tim 2:15-16
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
(KJV)

 

[Prentis]

The Holy Spirit and the scriptures are always in agreement yes, because it is the Lord's word.

But does God never speak anymore to man, as he did in Acts 8 to Ananias, for example?

We are still to follow the Spirit, just as the early church, the New Testament tells us about the experience of following the Spirit, and how it works. Now we must enter that reality.

 

[Insight]

Prentis

Veteran is not seperating the Spirt from the Word i.e to follow the Scriptures is to follow the Spirit.

You are yet to make that distinction.

Truth below

Someone thinking to make God's written Word as secondary is wrongly assuming they perfectly understand Holy Writ, when they do not.

As we proved before with John 17:17 "remember?"

Insight