Roe V. Wade

[Mantis]

He made it pretty clear to me that he hates it. I caused one and didn’t even know it. He let me know through dreams. Murder is murder(which is a sin). Just because the person tells themselves it is just a blob of cells or a fetus is not a baby doesn’t make it true.

 

[reformed1689]

Whoa.

That’s over the top I think.

No, it's not. It is perfectly reasonable and true.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

you may Kill someone in self defense or one who has committed a heinous crime

As long as the circumstance allows you to be at peace with what the Scriptures say:

“unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.” (Luke 6:29)

“Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.” (Romans 13:8-10)

 

[JohnPaul]

As long as the circumstance allows you to be at peace with what the Scriptures say:

“unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.” (Luke 6:29)

“Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.” (Romans 13:8-10)

I will love my neighbor as myself until he or she breaks one of those commandments, then he or she needs to pay the consequences as per God’s law.

 

[reformed1689]

I will love my neighbor as myself until he or she breaks one of those commandments, then he or she need to pay the consequences as per God’s law.

Abortion supporters take things out of context, twist other Scriptures, and IGNORE others.

 

[Stan B]

Abortion supporters take things out of context, twist other Scriptures, and IGNORE others.

I am not an abortion supporter, I am a Scripture supporter. My morals and ethics are based upon Scripture. You have not provided a single scrap of Scripture stating abortion is a sin. In fact in some cases the Bible even approves it:

"If a man begets a hundred sons and lives many years so that the days of his years are many, if his soul is not filled with good and also that he have no burial; I say that an aborted birth is better than he." Ecclesiastes 6:3

 

[reformed1689]

I am not an abortion supporter, I am a Scripture supporter. My morals and ethics are based upon Scripture. You have not provided a single scrap of Scripture stating abortion is a sin. In fact in some cases the Bible even approves it:

"If a man begets a hundred sons and lives many years so that the days of his years are many, if his soul is not filled with good and also that he have no burial; I say that an aborted birth is better than he." Ecclesiastes 6:3

Wow it does not say an aborted birth. What crap translation is that?

As far as scripture against abortion. First, no Scripture supports abortion. Not one. Did God strike some? Yes but that is GOD and you most certainly are not.

Exodus 21:22-23 - penalties against those who kill the unborn.
Psalm 139:13 - We are a person before we are born. It IS a living being. You claim that it is not which just ignores science.

When in your view does a "fetus" become a "living being"?

 

[Mantis]

Thou shall not murder??????
The only way you can say abortions are ok is if you ignore that commandment. It’s pretty clear to me and scriptural.

 

[JohnPaul]

Thou shall not murder??????
The only way you can say abortions are ok is if you ignore that commandment. It’s pretty clear to me and scriptural.

To me too.

 

[JohnPaul]

Abortion supporters take things out of context, twist other Scriptures, and IGNORE others.

You ain’t kidding.

 

[Jim B]

Wow it does not say an aborted birth. What crap translation is that?

As far as scripture against abortion. First, no Scripture supports abortion. Not one. Did God strike some? Yes but that is GOD and you most certainly are not.

Exodus 21:22-23 - penalties against those who kill the unborn.
Psalm 139:13 - We are a person before we are born. It IS a living being. You claim that it is not which just ignores science.

When in your view does a "fetus" become a "living being"?

There is a real problem with chopping up Scripture into verses, which is an artificial division. Here is what the paragraph (also an added division, but better than verses) Exodus 21:22-25 says: “If men fight and hit a pregnant woman and her child is born prematurely, but there is no serious injury, the one who hit her will surely be punished in accordance with what the woman’s husband demands of him, and he will pay what the court decides. But if there is serious injury, then you will give a life for a life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."

BTW, never forget that God killed all the firstborn of Egypt, both humans and animals. Exodus 11:4-6, " Moses said, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘About midnight I will go throughout Egypt, and all the firstborn in the land of Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh who sits on his throne, to the firstborn son of the slave girl who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle. There will be a great cry throughout the whole land of Egypt, such as there has never been, nor ever will be again."

He also permitted Herod to kill all the children two years of ager and younger. Matthew 2:13-16, "After they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Get up, take the child and his mother and flee to Egypt, and stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to look for the child to kill him.” Then he got up, took the child and his mother during the night, and went to Egypt. He stayed there until Herod died. In this way what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet was fulfilled: “I called my Son out of Egypt.”

When Herod saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, he became enraged. He sent men to kill all the children in Bethlehem and throughout the surrounding region from the age of two and under, according to the time he had learned from the wise men."

There are legitimate reasons to terminate a pregnancy! The decision must be left to the woman and her physician (with input from her family).. Anything else is draconian nonsense.

 

[Jim B]

Wow it does not say an aborted birth. What crap translation is that?

As far as scripture against abortion. First, no Scripture supports abortion. Not one. Did God strike some? Yes but that is GOD and you most certainly are not.

Exodus 21:22-23 - penalties against those who kill the unborn.
Psalm 139:13 - We are a person before we are born. It IS a living being. You claim that it is not which just ignores science.

When in your view does a "fetus" become a "living being"?

How many women do you want to see needlessly die?

 

[marks]

No, you are wrong.

“If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.” (Exodus 21:22)

The only time execution came into play is if the woman died also:

“And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life” (Exodus 21:23)

There is some debate on what “her fruit depart” might mean, but I think it’s clear that hitting a pregnant woman will more than likely cause the death of the unborn child than cause a premature live birth.

I think the question concerning that passage is whether "any mischief" includes the death or injury of mother only, or if child is included as well.

Much love!

 

[marks]

If you read the Septuagint it makes clear it is talking about the baby, not the woman.

Exodus 21:22-25 Brenton
22) And if two men strive and smite a woman with child, and her child be born imperfectly formed, he shall be forced to pay a penalty: as the woman's husband may lay upon him, he shall pay with a valuation.
23) But if it be perfectly formed, he shall give life for life,
24) eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25) burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Much love!

 

[reformed1689]

How many women do you want to see needlessly die?

What are you talking about?

 

[reformed1689]

There is a real problem with chopping up Scripture into verses, which is an artificial division. Here is what the paragraph (also an added division, but better than verses) Exodus 21:22-25 says: “If men fight and hit a pregnant woman and her child is born prematurely, but there is no serious injury, the one who hit her will surely be punished in accordance with what the woman’s husband demands of him, and he will pay what the court decides. But if there is serious injury, then you will give a life for a life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."

BTW, never forget that God killed all the firstborn of Egypt, both humans and animals. Exodus 11:4-6, " Moses said, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘About midnight I will go throughout Egypt, and all the firstborn in the land of Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh who sits on his throne, to the firstborn son of the slave girl who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle. There will be a great cry throughout the whole land of Egypt, such as there has never been, nor ever will be again."

He also permitted Herod to kill all the children two years of ager and younger. Matthew 2:13-16, "After they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Get up, take the child and his mother and flee to Egypt, and stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to look for the child to kill him.” Then he got up, took the child and his mother during the night, and went to Egypt. He stayed there until Herod died. In this way what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet was fulfilled: “I called my Son out of Egypt.”

When Herod saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, he became enraged. He sent men to kill all the children in Bethlehem and throughout the surrounding region from the age of two and under, according to the time he had learned from the wise men."

There are legitimate reasons to terminate a pregnancy! The decision must be left to the woman and her physician (with input from her family).. Anything else is draconian nonsense.

Talk about butchering Scripture....

You and I are not God. So any example of God striking someone is irrelevant.

Second, God did not command Herod to kill all the children. Again, irrelevant.

 

[Stan B]

Wow it does not say an aborted birth. What crap translation is that?

Aborted would be the correct translation. According to Strong's Concordance the Hebrew word used, (han·na·p¯el) Strong's 5309: Something fallen, an abortion

As far as scripture against abortion. First, no Scripture supports abortion. Not one. Did God strike some? Yes but that is GOD and you most certainly are not.

Scripture says very little about abortion, because it has very little importance in God's view. The fact that Scripture demands an abortion in the instance of an adultress pregnant woman, confirms that it is not a sin. God's Law focuses upon declaring that which is sinful and unacceptable to God, but nowhere in all of Scripture God even bother to mention it as being against His law. He performs abortions, often referred to as miscarriages. all the time. I know people that have had miscarriages.

Exodus 21:22-23 - penalties against those who kill the unborn.

"When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that she has a miscarriage but no other injury occurs, then the guilty party will be fined what the woman’s husband demands, as negotiated with the judges, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband demands and as the court allows. But if a serious injury results, then you must require a life for a life—"

Yeh, if someone causes an abortion, then he has to pay a fine. But if serious injury results . . . ie abortion is not even considered a serious injury, just an inconvenience for which he must pay a fine.

Psalm 139:13 - We are a person before we are born. It IS a living being. You claim that it is not which just ignores science.

13For it was You who created my inward parts;n
You knit me together in my mother’s womb.

Yeh, he was a knitting job in progress.

When in your view does a "fetus" become a "living being"?

The Bible is rather clear on that:
"Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;and man became a living being." Gen 2:7 That's not all that difficult to understand. Even I can understand it. God is obviously not going to breath the breath of life into nostrils that don't yet exist, and if they did it's not going to work all that well with nostrils soaking in a bag of amniotic fluid.

Nevertheless, the human body is not all that important in God's plan. It is just a pile of dirt, and it is sustained throughout it's life with dirt. Everything we eat to sustain the body comes from dirt. And it dies,"then the dirt will return to the earth as it was". But the spirit will return to God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7

The essence of who we are, is our spirit, which God places within us when He breathes life into our body us when we are born, and then takes it back again when we die.

So what really happens in an abortion? Since the fetus has never been born, it is not a living being. Before we are even born, God already has us, our spirit which comes from Him, ready to enter a body on earth. The fact that the anticipated body was disposed of via abortion makes no difference. It does not destroy the spirit. In the absence of an appropriate body, our spirit stays with God until appropriate accomodation is found for our spirit. And then at the end of life, while our body returns to dust we/our "spirit retuns to God who gave it." Eccl 12:7

 

[Stan B]

Thou shall not murder??????
The only way you can say abortions are ok is if you ignore that commandment. It’s pretty clear to me and scriptural.

How can you murder something that is not alive??

 

[Mantis]

How can you murder something that is not alive??

There is the problem. You don’t see the child as alive. It’s a growing child. This isn’t rocket science. You can make whatever excuse you want to tell yourself it’s ok but it’s not.
I had a one night stand that ended in an abortion. I had no idea until one night my dead grandmother came to me in a dream all crying and upset that this abortion happened. the next day I found out that girl got pregnant and had an abortion. I know that it is just my experience but that alone let me know how much God loves those babies that you think are not alive.

 

[Wrangler]

God did kill David’s baby from Bath-Sheba because of David’s sins in that situation… (2 Samuel 12)

And King Jeroboam’s child as well (1 Kings 14).

Just saying.

I'm not sure what you are just saying but it seems like you are proceeding with the God complex that led to Original Sin. See Ps 82:1.

'God did X so that makes it right for me to do' assumes one has the same authority of ones own Creator. Even to say one is a creator of their own children is hubris shining through for it is, like money, that we are more like stewarts until the next generation can take the reigns of decision-making.

Our children are not our clay to do our will but His clay and His Will. Just my opinion.