Romans 11:25-27. New prophecy about the future or old prophecy about an ongoing reality?

[jeffweeder]

Have you noticed in the Scripture that even the original 12 left Israel behind and took that Gospel to various places around the world?

What that tells me is that man cannot convert the stiff-necked Jew. It will take an act of God in punishment for Him to keep the promise made to faithful Abraham.

Yes, I noticed that.

It was not man who was trying to convert them Charlie. Jesus gave us his ministry of reconciliation as an act of God, even as their imminent judgment of exile loomed on their horizon.

 

[covenantee]

We know from Scripture that only 1/3 of the population of Israel at the time of "Jacobs Trouble" the Great Tribulation will survive the anti-christ.

What Scripture?

 

[Charlie24]

Yes, I noticed that.

It was not man who was trying to convert them Charlie. Jesus gave us his ministry of reconciliation as an act of God, even as their imminent judgment of exile loomed on their horizon.

What I'm referring to is man presenting the Gospel to Israel. They will not accept it! To the point the apostles had to leave Israel.

Only an act of God will get their attention.

 

[Charlie24]

What Scripture?

Zech. 13:8-9
"And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God."

When Christ returns, the anti-christ will be destroying Israel, and he himself will be destroyed by Christ, along with his armies.

"They shall call on my name" is said to be the very moment that Israel sees that they are about to be wiped out, and they call on the Lord their God, and the eastern sky splits, and every eye shall see Him. Their Messiah delivers them.

 

[jeffweeder]

What I'm referring to is man presenting the Gospel to Israel. They will not accept it! To the point the apostles had to leave Israel.

Only an act of God will get their attention.

If Jesus didn't get their attention nothing will.
The Apostles had success at the start , but the rest of them showed themselves as unworthy to receive what God was wanting to give them. The Spirit led them to go to the Gentiles.

Acts 13:46
And [at the same time] Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and confidently, saying, “It was necessary that God’s message [of salvation through faith in Christ] be spoken to you [Jews] first. Since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, now we turn to the Gentiles.

1. Acts 11:17
   So, if God gave Gentiles the same gift [equally] as He gave us after we accepted and believed and trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ [as Savior], who was I to interfere or stand in God’s way?”

 

[Charlie24]

If Jesus didn't get their attention nothing will.
The Apostles had success at the start , but the rest of them showed themselves as unworthy to receive what God was wanting to give them. The Spirit led them to go to the Gentiles.

Acts 13:46
And [at the same time] Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and confidently, saying, “It was necessary that God’s message [of salvation through faith in Christ] be spoken to you [Jews] first. Since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, now we turn to the Gentiles.

1. Acts 11:17
   So, if God gave Gentiles the same gift [equally] as He gave us after we accepted and believed and trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ [as Savior], who was I to interfere or stand in God’s way?”

I would say that what you don't understand is that come hell or high water, Israel will be saved.

It will be a mighty act by the hand of God that brings them in. The promise to faithful Abraham will be kept no matter what!

 

[jeffweeder]

I would say that what you don't understand is that come hell or high water, Israel will be saved.

It will be a mighty act by the hand of God that brings them in. The promise to faithful Abraham will be kept no matter what!

Fingers crossed that it does Bro'.
If it doesn't happen by the second coming it's never ever going to happen.

 

[Charlie24]

Fingers crossed that it does Bro'.
If it doesn't happen by the second coming it's never ever going to happen.

We must believe the Scripture. I know sometimes that's not easy to do.

 

[covenantee]

Zech. 13:8-9
"And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God."

When Christ returns, the anti-christ will be destroying Israel, and he himself will be destroyed by Christ, along with his armies.

"They shall call on my name" is said to be the very moment that Israel sees that they are about to be wiped out, and they call on the Lord their God, and the eastern sky splits, and every eye shall see Him. Their Messiah delivers them.

How does God identify Jews/Israel who are "chosen"? What are His identification criteria?

1. DNA
2. Culture
3. Religion
4. Domicile

Something else?

 

[Charlie24]

How does God identify Jews/Israel who are "chosen"? What are His identification criteria?

1. DNA
2. Culture
3. Religion
4. Domicile

Something else?

That's a good question, and will be the sorrow of many who prejudge who they are.

Maybe someone could answer that but I can't, I don't know, and have never talked to anyone who does know.

What's important to know is that we don't know! God is very peculiar over His chosen, many times in Scripture, even when the Jew was wrong, the one who put his hand on that Jew regretted it.

Not saying that Jews can get away with anything, but we had better be very careful how we treat them.

A word spoken against His chosen people, believe it or not, carries consequences!

 

[Truth7t7]

Maybe someone could answer that but I can't, I don't know, and have never talked to anyone who does know.

What's important to know is that we don't know! God is very peculiar over His chosen, many times in Scripture, even when the Jew was wrong, the one who put his hand on that Jew regretted it.

Not saying that Jews can get away with anything, but we had better be very careful how we treat them.

A word spoken against His chosen people, believe it or not, carries consequences!

Nobody knows because it doesn't exist in scripture, as you and many claim

God has no respect for persons, let alone a person being Jewish having a free pass, big smiles!

Sorta like a Roman Catholic getting to heaven on the family plan, my grandfather was Catholic so I'm Catholic

Sad part is, you will continue teaching it as if it does exist

 

[jeffweeder]

We must believe the Scripture. I know sometimes that's not easy to do.

True
Dont beat yourself up about it. Trust me It does get easier as we grow into the bigger picture.

 

[Charlie24]

Nobody knows because it doesn't exist in scripture, as you and many claim

God has no respect for persons, let alone a person being Jewish having a free pass, big smiles!

Sorta like a Roman Catholic getting to heaven on the family plan, my grandfather was Catholic so I'm Catholic

Sad part is, you will continue teaching it as if it does exist

Why do I feel that you will be a part of this, Truth?

Zech. 12:3
"And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it."

 

[Truth7t7]

Not saying that Jews can get away with anything, but we had better be very careful how we treat them.

A word spoken against His chosen people, believe it or not, carries consequences!

Standard false teaching found in dispensationalism

God has judgement waiting for the unsaved murdering Jew, just as he has for a Gentile of the same

Sad to see that you actually believe and teach a person has a prominence with God based upon ethnic heritage

Sorta like Mormon theology in white people are God's chosen, and negro blacks are God's cursed, all based upon ethnic origin

 

[covenantee]

That's a good question, and will be the sorrow of many who prejudge who they are.

Maybe someone could answer that but I can't, I don't know, and have never talked to anyone who does know.

What's important to know is that we don't know! God is very peculiar over His chosen, many times in Scripture, even when the Jew was wrong, the one who put his hand on that Jew regretted it.

Not saying that Jews can get away with anything, but we had better be very careful how we treat them.

A word spoken against His chosen people, believe it or not, carries consequences!

How about faithfulness and obedience to God and His Son?

That's never failed.

 

[Truth7t7]

Why do I feel that you will be a part of this, Truth?

Zech. 12:3
"And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it."

Wrong guy, I won't be marching to the battle of Armageddon, however I could possibly be looking up watching my redeemer Jesus Christ return

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Charlie24]

Wrong guy, I won't be marching to the battle of Armageddon, however I could possibly be looking up watching my redeemer Jesus Christ return

Jesus Is The Lord

The Jews are a burdensome stone to the world right now, it will get heavier though.

Better watch any attitude toward that burden.

 

[Truth7t7]

The Jews are a burdensome stone to the world right now, it will get heavier though.

Better watch any attitude toward that burden.

Once again "Jews" have absolutely no favor with God whatsoever as you claim

There are two groups in the world today (Saved Church) (Unsaved World) period

Your Zionist admonition is "Laughable" and that's a big understatement

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Charlie24]

Once again "Jews" have absolutely no favor with God whatsoever as you claim

There are two groups in the world today (Saved Church) (Unsaved World) period

Your Zionist admonition is "Laughable" and that's a big understatement

Jesus Is The Lord

Isa. 49:22-23

"Thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.

And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the Lord: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me."

 

[Marty fox]

Paul said they will be. So it must be yet future.

Future from his time