Romans 11 and the real Replacement Theology
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I believe it was only one time I posted what you are referring to and it's not a big deal. Everlasting father and father of the ages is the same.
What verse are you referring to that I quote from another Bible that disagrees with your post? You keep saying it's a big deal but I don't know what the issue is.
You keep saying my Bible is bad. My Bible is and has always been the King James Version. May I ask what's so wrong with the KJV which is 99 percent of all my posts?
Notice: This like 99 percent of what I quote is data from the KJV Bible
John 1:14
The "Word" is the wisdom, plan or purpose of God and the Word became flesh as Jesus Christ. Thus, Jesus Christ was the Word in the flesh, which is shortened to the Word for ease of speaking. Scripture is also the Word in writing. Everyone agrees that the Word in writing had a beginning. So did the Word in the flesh. In fact, the Greek text of Matthew 1:18 says that very clearly: "Now the beginning of Jesus Christ was in this manner..." The modern Greek texts all read "beginning" in Matthew 1:18. Birth is considered an acceptable translation since the beginning of some things is birth, and so most translations read birth. Nevertheless, the proper understanding of Matthew 1:18 is the beginning of Jesus Christ. In the beginning God had a plan, a purpose, which became flesh when Jesus was conceived.
Liar. You did not quote from the King James Version. Let's compare:
Your version:
King James Version
1 Cor.15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening (life-giving) spirit.
There is a MASSIVE difference between "living spirit" and quickening spirit.
I'm not going to respond to your posts anymore. You're also a liar if you say the King James Bible translates everlasting Father as father of the coming age.
You've been dishonest until now, and you continue to be dishonest. I'm placing you on ignore.
quickening spirit is the same thing as living spirit. The word quickening is old English for alive. Nobody is a lying. You just don't understand a lot of advanced stuff.
I feel like you're trying to tell me something new here, or something that I disagree with, but I don't think you are. It still sounds to me, even with your explanation, the same as I've always understood it.
Keep in mind that those scriptures were written before we were given immortality, so at that time, Jesus alone was immortal, but notice also that Paul said we would become immortal, as you quoted, in 1 Cor 15:54. And at that time we can say "death has been swallowed up in victory". Paul was talking about a day future to him, but for us it is in our past. I see that victory over death having taken place 2000 years ago, which means we now have immortality.
If the soul is eternal, then it is immortal. And since we are souls, we are immortal. I'm still failing to see how you justify this contradiction in your position. If we live eternally, we are immortal. That seems pretty straight forward to me.
If "death" is not really dead, but merely separated from God, as you say, then why use the word "dead"? It's very misleading isn't it? I mean, people might think it actually means dead.
I see spirit everywhere. I read nothing about the soul is eternal...
Galatians
Received ye the Spirit
having begun in the Spirit
He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit
God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son
For we through the Spirit
Walk in the Spirit
the flesh lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh
But if ye be led of the Spirit
But the fruit of the Spirit
If we live in the Spirit let us also walk in the Spirit
The soul is a living being, which means you and I are souls. Do you believe that we will live forever? If so, then you believe that the soul is eternal.
@Freedm I've edited this post a lot since first posting it, because of it's importance. I wanted it to be 100% clear what I'm saying in this post.
By what you say, I think you may have the same common misunderstanding that sadly exists in almost the entire body of Christ, the Church.
"Given immortality" is a statement that expresses only half the truth. The other (most important) half is what I've underlined in the quote below:
"And this is the record, that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that has the Son has life; and he that has not the Son of God has not life." -- 1 John 5:11-12
Only in the Word is life. (John 1:4).
Our immortality is in Christ, the Creator, who alone is immortal according to the scriptures, and who alone has life in Himself, according to the scriptures. (1 Timothy 6:16; John 5:26).
Adam never had (and never would have had), and the sons of Adam never have had (and never will have) immortality and life in ourselves. It's only in Christ that we have immortality - Christ who alone is immortal, and who alone has (eternal) life in Himself (1 Timothy 6:16; John 5:26), and in whom alone is life (John 1:4).
Our immortality is still not and never will be in ourselves, any more than Adam's was when he believed the words "You shall not surely die."
There is no change after the resurrection from Adam's death (which is the first death, and which came via Adam to all men, because all sinned).
The idea that Adam and the sons of Adam (the creature) can never lose their immortality (will not die, no matter whose words they believe) is a lie from the beginning. Only God (our Creator) is immortal. Only the Creator has life in Himself. The Spirit breathes life. Our immortality is in Christ, not in ourselves.
The immortality that we put on, which is mentioned in 1 Cor.15:53-54, is Christ's immortality that we share in through His Spirit (the breath of God).
"You will not surely die" implies that the creature was given, or will be given immortality and life in himself, and it's a lie from the beginning.
By emphasizing only half the truth, most of the church has fed the saints, who are creature, a false narrative of "forever immortal because we (the creature) have been "given" immortality" (as in "You will not surely die"). It implies (falsely) that in the resurrection our (the creature, the sons of Adam's) immortality is going to exist in ourselves, in the creature, rather than alone in Christ, the Word in whom is life, through whom all things are created.
"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered. And they gather and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done to you." -- John 15:6-7.
The Word which says "You will surely die in the day you eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil" implies that we do not have immortality in ourselves, and thereby gives us the knowledge that we do not have (and can never have) life in ourselves. If we do not abide in that Word, then we will die. "You will not surely die" is a lie from the beginning.
"And this is the record, that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that has the Son has life; and he that has not the Son of God has not life." -- 1 John 5:11-12.
The resurrection of the body which we live in hope (blessed assurance) of, does not change this - and nowhere in scripture (not even in one verse where the words relating to the resurrection are found), is the resurrection referring to the spiritual birth (the spiritual quickening of our souls | spirits) - every single resurrection verse in the New Testament is talking about the resurrection of the body. To shorten this I won't put the list of verses up here.
By what you say, I think you may have the same common misunderstanding that sadly exists in almost the entire body of Christ, the Church.
"Given immortality" is a statement that expresses only half the truth. The other (most important) half is what I've underlined in the quote below:
"And this is the record, that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that has the Son has life; and he that has not the Son of God has not life." -- 1 John 5:11-12
Only in the Word is life. (John 1:4).
Our immortality is in Christ, the Creator, who alone is immortal according to the scriptures, and who alone has life in Himself, according to the scriptures. (1 Timothy 6:16; John 5:26).
Adam never had (and never would have had), and the sons of Adam never have had (and never will have) immortality and life in ourselves. It's only in Christ that we have immortality - Christ who alone is immortal, and who alone has (eternal) life in Himself (1 Timothy 6:16; John 5:26), and in whom alone is life (John 1:4).
Our immortality is still not and never will be in ourselves, any more than Adam's was when he believed the words "You shall not surely die."
There is no change after the resurrection from Adam's death (which is the first death, and which came via Adam to all men, because all sinned).
The idea that Adam and the sons of Adam (the creature) can never lose their immortality (will not die, no matter whose words they believe) is a lie from the beginning. Only God (our Creator) is immortal. Only the Creator has life in Himself. The Spirit breathes life. Our immortality is in Christ, not in ourselves.
The immortality that we put on, which is mentioned in 1 Cor.15:53-54, is Christ's immortality that we share in through His Spirit (the breath of God).
"You will not surely die" implies that the creature was given, or will be given immortality and life in himself, and it's a lie from the beginning.
By emphasizing only half the truth, most of the church has fed the saints, who are creature, a false narrative of "forever immortal because we (the creature) have been "given" immortality" (as in "You will not surely die"). It implies (falsely) that in the resurrection our (the creature, the sons of Adam's) immortality is going to exist in ourselves, in the creature, rather than alone in Christ, the Word in whom is life, through whom all things are created.
"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered. And they gather and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done to you." -- John 15:6-7.
The Word which says "You will surely die in the day you eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil" implies that we do not have immortality in ourselves, and thereby gives us the knowledge that we do not have (and can never have) life in ourselves. If we do not abide in that Word, then we will die. "You will not surely die" is a lie from the beginning.
"And this is the record, that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that has the Son has life; and he that has not the Son of God has not life." -- 1 John 5:11-12.
The resurrection of the body which we live in hope (blessed assurance) of, does not change this - and nowhere in scripture (not even in one verse where the words relating to the resurrection are found), is the resurrection referring to the spiritual birth (the spiritual quickening of our souls | spirits) - every single resurrection verse in the New Testament is talking about the resurrection of the body. To shorten this I won't put the list of verses up here.
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Gabriel _Arch
Well-Known Member
I think if you consider the behavior of that one accusing you of not being honest, you may notice their behaviors here are what they accuse you of.
Naturally you protect your friend from a bully like that. What would he say to your friend were he able to contact him? As offensive as he is here under many aliases, I shudder to think.
Matthew Matthew | TPT Bible | YouVersion
MatthewIntroductionAt a GlanceAuthor: Matthew, the former Jewish tax collector and disciple of JesusAudience: Originally, the Jewish Christian church and the Jewish peopleDate: AD 55–80Type of L
www.bible.com
Christians can judge for themselves if they care to do the research.
Google Search
www.google.com
Scholars review The Passion translation. Let the readers and viewers of the scholars' comments judge rightly (not only "for themselves", without even doing research on what the scholars say, which is quite obviously the policy of some).
Also take note of how deceitful and dishonest some are to misquote the scriptures, changing the meaning of certain verses and therefore the passages those verses are found in, and then, when asked, refusing to say which translation they are using and who translated it that way.
Also take note of how deceitful and dishonest some are to misquote the scriptures, changing the meaning of certain verses and therefore the passages those verses are found in, and then, when asked, refusing to say which translation they are using and who translated it that way.
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My friend would ignore him because professional people with big ministries don't take the time to bicker with people who are nasty. The verse in question means nothing. The guy is literally fighting with me over nothing. One translation says "everlasting" and the other says "coming age" and neither had anything to do with the subject matter that we were talking about.
The Bible does not say soul. It says spirit. I gave you Galatians. Here's Ephesians...
sealed with that holy Spirit of promise
have access by one Spirit unto the Father
ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit
it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit
strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man
be renewed in the spirit of your mind
grieve not the holy Spirit of God
the fruit of the Spirit
be filled with the Spirit
Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit
TribulationSigns
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Yep!
Heb 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Revelation 1:18
“I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
That is not what Paul wrote. Immortal does not mean eternal. That is how it is portrayed in Greek mythology. We don't interpret Scripture according to Greek mythology. Most erroneously do. Immortal does not mean eternal. It may imply it in fiction and mythology. Immortal just means not dead. The soul placed in the LOF is the second death and for eternal purposes. Unless Immortal means eternal death, you are still wrong in the way you use the term.
All Paul wrote is the death puts on life in the spiritual sense. It has nothing to do with a physical body. Once the spirit is put on, you are no longer in death. The soul is eternal with or without the spirit. Souls have been waiting in sheol for thousands of years. They are still the dead, not immortal meaning not dead. So being eternal and being immortal is not the same thing.
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