Romans 6:22

[Michiah-Imla]

please clarify.

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9-10)

Clear enough?

And what does your off-topic insult about vestments have to do with the discussion?

The vestments of the ancient Jewish high priest was far more ornate than what priests wear, but you don't insult them.

God told the ancient Jews to make and wear them.

God didn’t tell any Christian to make or wear any special attire.

 

[Illuminator]

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9-10)

Clear enough?

It's perfectly clear, as long as you fail to reconcile that with 1 John 9-10
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us.

God told the ancient Jews to make and wear them.

God didn’t tell any Christian to make or wear any special attire.

Then find a verse where God opposes special attire for liturgical purposes. Customs and rubrics are not doctrines, they have biblical origins and develop over time. Lots of Protestant choirs have special attire and you don't insult them either.
You ignored this link because you are afraid of it.

What is the meaning behind the Priest's Vestments? A Practical Guide​

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Then find a verse where God opposes special attire for liturgical purposes

Find a verse where God approves Christians masquerading as clowns in clown outfits…

But there is this verse:

“But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments” (Matthew 23:5)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You ignored this link because you are afraid of it

Oooohh.

I’m shaking in my boots!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

It's perfectly clear, as long as you ignore 1 John 9-10

Understand those passages by understanding these:

“He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” (1 John 3:8-9)

 

[Illuminator]

Understand those passages by understanding these:

“He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” (1 John 3:8-9)

You are evading verse 10 for the second time because it destroys your presupposition.

Find a verse where God approves Christians masquerading as clowns in clown outfits…

But there is this verse:

“But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments” (Matthew 23:5)

You don't get it. "seen of men"...Jesus condemned vanity: showing off a pretense of holiness. They are not even liturgical vestments in the first place. Jumping from one topic to another trying to keep Catholics running in circles is standard anti-Catholic methodology.

Understand those passages by understanding these:

“He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” (1 John 3:8-9)

You are evading verse 10 for the third time. Is it missing in your Bible???

‘I Am a Sinner’: The deep humility of Pope Francis

What "I am a sinner" tells us about who Pope Francis is.

www.americamagazine.org

 

[Johann]

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9-10)

Clear enough?

1 JOHN—NOTE ON 3:9–10 born of God. See John 3:3–8. God’s seed. Some
take this to be the Word of God that brings about the new birth (cf. James
1:18, 22; 1 Pet. 1:23, 25). Others see it as a way of speaking of the Holy
Spirit in his regenerating and transforming presence within the believer.
Since the Holy Spirit works through the Word in regeneration, both of these
ideas are likely intended here.

In other words, because the Word is present
in the believer’s heart through the work of the Spirit, the believer cannot
keep on sinning.

Thus the hearts of genuine Christians (those who are truly
children of God) have been so transformed that they cannot live in a
pattern of continual sin—though this does not mean that Christians are ever
completely free from sin in this life (see 1 John 1:8–10).

By this it is
evident. Or, as Jesus said of false prophets, “You will recognize them by
their fruits” (Matt. 7:16). does not love his brother. John returns to the
ethical dimension, the true barometer of what people really believe,
whatever they may say.

And he cannot sin - Not merely he will not, but he cannot; that is, in the sense referred to.

This cannot mean that one who is renewed has not physical ability to do wrong, for every moral agent has; nor can it mean that no one who is a true Christian never does, in fact, do wrong in thought, word, or deed, for no one could seriously maintain that: but it must mean that there is somehow a certainty as absolute “as if” it were physically impossible, that those who are born of God will not be characteristically and habitually sinners; that they will not sin in such a sense as to lose all true religion and be numbered with transgressors; that they will not fall away and perish.

Unless this passage teaches that no one who is renewed ever can sin in any sense; or that everyone who becomes a Christian is, and must be, absolutely and always perfect, no words could more clearly prove that true Christians will never fall from grace and perish. How can what the apostle here says be true, if a real Christian can fall away and become again a sinner?
Barnes

born:

1Jn_2:29, 1Jn_4:7, 1Jn_5:1, 1Jn_5:4, 1Jn_5:18; Joh_1:13
for:

Job_19:28; 1Pe_1:23 Mat_7:18; Act_4:20; Rom_6:2; Gal_5:17; Tit_1:2

dead to sin. They are said to be dead to sin, who do not live under the power and dominion of it; who mortify sin, and suffer it (so far as they can) to have no life or power in it. Fall into it they may, but live and lie in it they cannot. It is not falling into the water that drowns a man, but it is his lying in it; so it is not falling into sin that damns a man, but it is his living in it.

You may dismiss the "commentaries and notes" but sinless perfectionism is not found in Scripture.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You are evading verse 10 for the second time because it destroys your presupposition.

You are evading 1 John 3:9 because it destroys your presupposition.

You don't get it. "seen of men"...Jesus condemned vanity: showing off a pretense of holiness.

Yup!

You don’t get it!

Jumping from one topic to another trying to keep Catholics running in circles is standard anti-Catholic methodology.

Run Catholic, run!!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

1 JOHN—NOTE ON 3:9–10 born of God. See John 3:3–8. God’s seed. Some
take this to be the Word of God that brings about the new birth (cf. James…

In other words:

“As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the LORD, we will not hearken unto thee.” (Jeremiah 44:16)

We will follow our own heart (commentary).

 

[Michiah-Imla]

“…fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.” (Ephesians 5:3-6)

Vain words = Commentary/theology books.

 

[Johann]

“…fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.” (Ephesians 5:3-6)

Vain words = Commentary/theology books.

Read the verse again, you have missed "yourself" there.....

 

[mailmandan]

1 JOHN—NOTE ON 3:9–10 born of God. See John 3:3–8. God’s seed. Some
take this to be the Word of God that brings about the new birth (cf. James
1:18, 22; 1 Pet. 1:23, 25). Others see it as a way of speaking of the Holy
Spirit in his regenerating and transforming presence within the believer.
Since the Holy Spirit works through the Word in regeneration, both of these
ideas are likely intended here.

In other words, because the Word is present
in the believer’s heart through the work of the Spirit, the believer cannot
keep on sinning.

Thus the hearts of genuine Christians (those who are truly
children of God) have been so transformed that they cannot live in a
pattern of continual sin—though this does not mean that Christians are ever
completely free from sin in this life (see 1 John 1:8–10).

By this it is
evident. Or, as Jesus said of false prophets, “You will recognize them by
their fruits” (Matt. 7:16). does not love his brother. John returns to the
ethical dimension, the true barometer of what people really believe,
whatever they may say.

And he cannot sin - Not merely he will not, but he cannot; that is, in the sense referred to.

This cannot mean that one who is renewed has not physical ability to do wrong, for every moral agent has; nor can it mean that no one who is a true Christian never does, in fact, do wrong in thought, word, or deed, for no one could seriously maintain that: but it must mean that there is somehow a certainty as absolute “as if” it were physically impossible, that those who are born of God will not be characteristically and habitually sinners; that they will not sin in such a sense as to lose all true religion and be numbered with transgressors; that they will not fall away and perish.

Unless this passage teaches that no one who is renewed ever can sin in any sense; or that everyone who becomes a Christian is, and must be, absolutely and always perfect, no words could more clearly prove that true Christians will never fall from grace and perish. How can what the apostle here says be true, if a real Christian can fall away and become again a sinner?
Barnes

born:

1Jn_2:29, 1Jn_4:7, 1Jn_5:1, 1Jn_5:4, 1Jn_5:18; Joh_1:13
for:

Job_19:28; 1Pe_1:23 Mat_7:18; Act_4:20; Rom_6:2; Gal_5:17; Tit_1:2

dead to sin. They are said to be dead to sin, who do not live under the power and dominion of it; who mortify sin, and suffer it (so far as they can) to have no life or power in it. Fall into it they may, but live and lie in it they cannot. It is not falling into the water that drowns a man, but it is his lying in it; so it is not falling into sin that damns a man, but it is his living in it.

You may dismiss the "commentaries and notes" but sinless perfectionism is not found in Scripture.

Amen! Those who believe in sinless perfection are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - 1 John 3:9

Doeth no sin (αμαρτιαν ου ποιε). Linear present active indicative as in verse 1 John 3:4 like αμαρτανε in verse 1 John 3:8 The child of God does not have the habit of sin.

His seed (σπερμα αυτου). God's seed, "the divine principle of life" (Vincent). Cf. 1 John 3:1

And he cannot sin (κα ου δυνατα αμαρτανειν). This is a wrong translation, for this English naturally means "and he cannot commit sin" as if it were κα ου δυνατα αμαρτειν or αμαρτησα (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive αμαρτανειν can only mean "and he cannot go on sinning," as is true of αμαρτανε in verse 1 John 3:8 and αμαρτανων in verse 1 John 3:6 For the aorist subjunctive to commit a sin see αμαρτητε and αμαρτη in 1 John 2:1 A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of αμαρτανειν here. Paul has precisely John's idea in Romans 6:1 επιμενωμεν τη αμαρτια (shall we continue in sin, present active linear subjunctive) in contrast with αμαρτησωμεν in Romans 6:15 (shall we commit a sin, first aorist active subjunctive).

1 John 3 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

1 John 3, Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament is a rich resource for understanding Scripture, delving into original language and cultural nuances.

www.studylight.org

Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, So one person sharpens another.

 

[Johann]

Amen! Those who believe in sinless perfection are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - 1 John 3:9

Doeth no sin (αμαρτιαν ου ποιε). Linear present active indicative as in verse 1 John 3:4 like αμαρτανε in verse 1 John 3:8 The child of God does not have the habit of sin.

His seed (σπερμα αυτου). God's seed, "the divine principle of life" (Vincent). Cf. 1 John 3:1

And he cannot sin (κα ου δυνατα αμαρτανειν). This is a wrong translation, for this English naturally means "and he cannot commit sin" as if it were κα ου δυνατα αμαρτειν or αμαρτησα (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive αμαρτανειν can only mean "and he cannot go on sinning," as is true of αμαρτανε in verse 1 John 3:8 and αμαρτανων in verse 1 John 3:6 For the aorist subjunctive to commit a sin see αμαρτητε and αμαρτη in 1 John 2:1 A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of αμαρτανειν here. Paul has precisely John's idea in Romans 6:1 επιμενωμεν τη αμαρτια (shall we continue in sin, present active linear subjunctive) in contrast with αμαρτησωμεν in Romans 6:15 (shall we commit a sin, first aorist active subjunctive).

1 John 3 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

1 John 3, Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament is a rich resource for understanding Scripture, delving into original language and cultural nuances.

www.studylight.org

Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, So one person sharpens another.

I am in agreement with you brother, but "commentaries" are being slam-dunked, but we shall continue to use them, you and I.
You and family have a blessed Sunday.
J.

 

[mailmandan]

I am in agreement with you brother, but "commentaries" are being slam-dunked, but we shall continue to use them, you and I.
You and family have a blessed Sunday.
J.

I will consider the words from a commentary by a Christian Greek scholar (Proverbs 27:17) over biased comments made by false teachers.

You and your family have a blessed Sunday as well.

 

[Johann]

I will consider the words from a commentary by a Christian Greek scholar (Proverbs 27:17) over biased comments made by false teachers.

You and your family have a blessed Sunday as well.

Pro 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

 

[Behold]

The apostle John makes it crystal clear in his first epistle that Christians can and do sin

1 John 1:9 is not for the Born again.

1 John 3:9 is for the born again.

Try to figure out why, Enoch111

 

[Behold]

Can’t you read?!

“…because of unbelief they were broken off,

They, (jews) were not born again in your verse

They born again exist in God, Spiritually.
Those Jews in your verse did not.

 

[Behold]

Understand those passages by understanding these:

“He that committeth sin is of the devil;

That verse is speaking to the unbelievers.
How do you know?
Because the Born again are "OF GOD".... They are His Children.
The Devil's children, are "OF the Devil".

 

[Behold]

1 JOHN—NOTE ON 3:9–10 born of God. See John 3:3–8. God’s seed. Some
take this to be the Word of God that brings about the new birth (cf. James
1:18, 22; 1 Pet. 1:23, 25). Others see it as a way of speaking of the Holy
Spirit in his regenerating and transforming presence within the believer.
Since the Holy Spirit works through the Word in regeneration, both of these
ideas are likely intended here.

In other words, because the Word is present
in the believer’s heart through the work of the Spirit, the believer cannot
keep on sinning.

Thus the hearts of genuine Christians (those who are truly
children of God) have been so transformed that they cannot live in a
pattern of continual sin—though this does not mean that Christians are ever
completely free from sin in this life (see 1 John 1:8–10).

By this it is
evident. Or, as Jesus said of false prophets, “You will recognize them by
their fruits” (Matt. 7:16). does not love his brother. John returns to the
ethical dimension, the true barometer of what people really believe,
whatever they may say.

And he cannot sin - Not merely he will not, but he cannot; that is, in the sense referred to.

This cannot mean that one who is renewed has not physical ability to do wrong, for every moral agent has; nor can it mean that no one who is a true Christian never does, in fact, do wrong in thought, word, or deed, for no one could seriously maintain that: but it must mean that there is somehow a certainty as absolute “as if” it were physically impossible, that those who are born of God will not be characteristically and habitually sinners; that they will not sin in such a sense as to lose all true religion and be numbered with transgressors; that they will not fall away and perish.

Unless this passage teaches that no one who is renewed ever can sin in any sense; or that everyone who becomes a Christian is, and must be, absolutely and always perfect, no words could more clearly prove that true Christians will never fall from grace and perish. How can what the apostle here says be true, if a real Christian can fall away and become again a sinner?
Barnes

born:

1Jn_2:29, 1Jn_4:7, 1Jn_5:1, 1Jn_5:4, 1Jn_5:18; Joh_1:13
for:

Job_19:28; 1Pe_1:23 Mat_7:18; Act_4:20; Rom_6:2; Gal_5:17; Tit_1:2

dead to sin. They are said to be dead to sin, who do not live under the power and dominion of it; who mortify sin, and suffer it (so far as they can) to have no life or power in it. Fall into it they may, but live and lie in it they cannot. It is not falling into the water that drowns a man, but it is his lying in it; so it is not falling into sin that damns a man, but it is his living in it.

You may dismiss the "commentaries and notes" but sinless perfectionism is not found in Scripture.

Your commentary writers are flailing in a sea of theological confusion, and have no clue.
Get rid of them or you'll eventually drown with them.

So, here is why the born again are 1 John 3:9

The Born again is not the body or the mind.
The born again is only the spirit that is become the "new creation"..
And where is the spirit that is born again?
Its "ONE with God".
So, that is the literal SON/Daughter of God.......not your body or your mind or your thinking.
Being Joined to God, is to become "in Christ' and there is no sin found there.

So, the "Old man of sin" is crucified with Christ, its gone., and that is why Paul tells you to stop trying to resurrect it with the law, the commandments and SELF EFFORT to try to save yourself, and keep yourself saved.
"reckon it DEAD"......because it is....its crucified with Christ and He took it to the grave.

Romans 4:8 says that God does not charge sin to the born again, as how could He when they are Joined to Him Spiritually.
So, all that is left is the old man, and it's "crucified with Christ" and God isn't going to count sin against a DEAD MAN.
God is not going to charge the born again with sin that Christ died for 2000 years ago.
See it?


The new man, is the "new creation" born again, and is become "ONE with God".

There is no "law" in heaven.
No commandments.
No sin.
No denominations.
And the Born again, are seated in heavenly places, where no law is found.
Only Grace is found in the KOG., and the KOG is within every born again believer.

Luke 17:20-21

 

[Johann]

1 John 1:9 is not for the Born again.

1 John 3:9 is for the born again.

Try to figure out why, Enoch111

1Jn 1:8 if we may say—'we have not sin,' ourselves we lead astray, and the truth is not in us;
1Jn 1:9 if we may confess our sins, stedfast He is and righteous that He may forgive us the sins, and may cleanse us from every unrighteousness;
1Jn 1:10 if we may say—'we have not sinned,' a liar we make Him, and His word is not in us.

If we say (ean eipōmen). Condition of third class with ean and second aorist (ingressive, up and say) active subjunctive. Claiming fellowship with God (see 1Jn_1:3) involves walking in the light with God (1Jn_1:5) and not in the darkness (skotos here, but skotia in Joh_1:5). See 1Jn_2:11 also for en tēi skotiāi peripateō.
We lie (pseudometha). Present middle indicative, plain Greek and plain English like that about the devil in Joh_8:44.
Do not the truth (ou poioumen tēn alētheian). Negative statement of the positive pseudometha as in Joh_8:44. See Joh_3:21 for “doing the truth,” like Neh_9:33.


If we say (ean eipōmen). See 1Jn_1:6.
We have no sin (hamartian ouk echomen). For this phrase see Joh_9:41; Joh_15:22, Joh_15:24. That is, we have no personal guilt, no principle of sin.

This some of the Gnostics held, since matter was evil and the soul was not contaminated by the sinful flesh, a thin delusion with which so-called Christian scientists delude themselves today.

We deceive ourselves (heautous planōmen). Present active indicative of planaō, to lead astray. We do not deceive others who know us. Negative statement again of the same idea, “the truth is not in us.”
Robertson


Purpose, Occasion, and Background

It is customary to understand 1 John as a response to the rise of an early
form of Gnosticism.

This was a religious mysticism that pirated Christian
motifs to propagate an understanding of salvation based on esoteric
“knowledge” (Gk. gnōsis).

According to this view, redemption is through
affirming the divine light already in the human soul, not through repentance
of sin and faith in Christ’s death to bring about spiritual rebirth.

Writings
widely publicized in recent years, like the Gospel of Thomas and Gospel of
Judas, for example, were products of Gnostic writers. But the heyday of
Gnostic thought was the second through fifth centuries, well after the time
the NT books were written. It can neither be proven nor ruled out that John
had this movement in mind as he wrote.
The study notes for this book will focus on what seems definite in 1 John
rather than what can be imagined. John wrote to Christians who had
witnessed an exodus from their ranks (2:19).

This does not mean that all
John wrote should be interpreted as a response to schism—John is neither
anti-Gnostic nor anti-schismatic. John’s focus is positive, not polemical. His
aim is redemptive, not reactionary. He urges readers to refine their
theological understanding, sharpen their ethical rigor, and heighten their
devotional intensity.

That is, they must grow in faith, obedience, and love.
Yet the letter is not a list of dos and don’ts. It is rather a manifesto of
“Done!”—Jesus’ words “It is finished” (John 19:30) come to mind. First
John highlights what God the Father has “done” in sending Christ the Son,
offering him up as a sacrifice for sins, and sending forth “the word of life” (1
John 1:1) that is causing this world’s darkness to pass away and the true light
of the coming age to shine (2:8).
God’s action becomes the mandate of those who believe in his Son.
“Whoever does the will of God abides forever” (2:17). God’s will is for
readers to receive the saving message of Christ’s coming, rejoice in the
commands of Christ’s teaching, and revel in the love of the Father as it
continually translates into Christian love for one another and ministry to the
world. This is “not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth” (3:18)

Purpose
To clarify the difference between those who belong to God and those who belong to this world so that
the church may enjoy peace and joy in Christ.

1 John 1.9 was written to Christians, no question about it.
So was 1 John 3.9