• Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Jim B

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2020
5,816
1,801
113
Santa Fe NM
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Let me give an example of the serpent at the tree .
HAS GOD really said ye cannot fellowship with brethren in error .
Yes GOD has said that if one is a brother , not to eat with such a one .
NAY NAY says the devil GOD is love , it is written that ye are not to say ye have no need of the hand or the foot .
DO WE SEE how satan works .
Just like at the tree . HE says a lie and yet uses a truth to try and justify the lie .
Watch and behold . HAS GOD said ye cannot eat of the trees of the garden .
Eve says , we may eat of the trees of the garden but of the tree in the midst of the garden ye shall not eat lest ye die .
NAY nay says the serpent , YE SHALL NOT DIE , LIE
For GOD does know that in the day ye eat therof ye shall be as Gods knowing good and evil , TRUTH
FOR EVEN GOD SAID THEY HAVE BECOME as one of us knowing good and evil . SATAN and his men
ALWAYS TWIST TRUTH to CAUSE DIS OBEIDANCE TO GOD . NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN
So how was the fruit when you ate it?
 

Michiah-Imla

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2020
5,978
3,237
113
Northeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I give them eternal life and they shall never perish:.

"no one can pluck them out of my hand."

Finally!

Someone who quotes scripture!

So let’s look at it brother:

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” (John 10:27-28)

The conditions of the promise are in bold underline.

#1. Hear his voice:

“…sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.” (John 5:14)

#2. Follow him:

“…Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:” (1 Peter 2:21-22)

Following in his steps of suffering we accomplish this mind blowing feat:

“Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.” (1 Peter 4:1-2)

If they IGNORE Him and follow someone else they CAN perish!
 
  • Like
Reactions: amigo de christo

mailmandan

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2020
4,357
4,647
113
The Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Bible? I give them eternal life and they shall never perish:.

"no one can pluck them out of my hand."
Some people turn this promise from Jesus in John 10:27-28 into a mockery and promote salvation by works by interpreting it this way - My sheep hear My voice, (some of them hear My voice and some of them don't hear My voice) and I know them, (some of them I know and some of them I don't know) and they follow Me. (some of them follow Me and some of them don't follow Me) And I give them eternal life, (some of them I give eternal life and some of them I don't give eternal life) and they shall never perish; (some of them will never perish and some of them will perish) neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. (some of them will not be snatched out of My hand and some of them will be snatched out of My hand).
 
Last edited:

Michiah-Imla

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2020
5,978
3,237
113
Northeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
My sheep hear My voice, (some of them hear My voice and some of them don't hear My voice)

Can you hear it?

“…if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” (Matthew 5:30)
 
  • Like
Reactions: amigo de christo

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
12,236
3,594
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” (John 10:27-28)

The conditions of the promise are in bold underline.
Sheep hear his voice and follow him. Not perfectly, but we follow him. We follow because He has given us eternal life. Other wise we could not follow HIm.

"All who come to me I will in no wise cast out"

BTW Hear and follow are not conditions they are results.

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Colossians 3:2-4

King James Version

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Ephesians 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
“…sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.” (John 5:14)
But not losing something they have no control over.

Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:


YOu need to remember Jesus went out to and sends us out to gather the lost sheep- not turn goats into sheep.

He also tell sus to gather the wheat and not the tares. Tares do not turn into wheat!

I am not sorry to say this. But your position is that Jesus' blood did not cleanse believers from all their sin! YOu promote whether you realize it or not- that the blood of Jesus is not enough! that is a blasphemy against the blood of Christ

.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

To say you have to stay saved by "good works" ( all works are either good or bad there is no neutral works) denies the scripture.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mailmandan

Michiah-Imla

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2020
5,978
3,237
113
Northeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hear and follow are not conditions they are results.

You can stop hearing Him, and you can stop following Him at some point if you do not:

“…continue in the faith grounded and settled” (Colossians 1:23)


your position is that Jesus' blood did not cleanse believers from all their sin!

My position is the biblical position:

Christ died:

“…for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God” (Romans 3:25)


YOu promote whether you realize it or not- that the blood of Jesus is not enough!

You promote, whether YOU realize it or not, continuing in sin (to whatever degree convenient for you).
 

Michiah-Imla

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2020
5,978
3,237
113
Northeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Ronald Nolette

Do you realize that your position puts the God of the Bible under an unrighteous light?

If it were true, that man could not stop sinning (as nearly every poster in this threads suggests), you make God out to be an unjust God who kills and slaughters people incapable of obeying his commandments:

“And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.” (Ezekiel 9:4-6)

But of course the true God of the Bible is just.

So it’s the doctrine of ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED that’s at fault here, not the God of the Bible!
 
  • Like
Reactions: amigo de christo

Jim B

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2020
5,816
1,801
113
Santa Fe NM
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
yeah not me . i dont point to a unity that honors and serves the dragon , JIM . And neither should you .
MY UNITY is with those who LOVE CHRIST , not with wolves and serpents who do nothing but decieve the flocks
That is self-deception. You are perpetually criticizing the body of Christ. You're a John the Baptist wanna' be, only you're attacking other Christians. Why??? To make yourself seem important (in your own eyes)? Christians are the body of Christ and when you criticize them you are criticizing the Lord Himself.
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
22,366
38,410
113
51
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So how was the fruit when you ate it?
Oh once upon a time the fruit of my sin was good to my taste . But then CHRIST REVIVED and I DIED .
Go ye and learn that well . The fruit of the wrong tree was once my delight . But now my taste is for the truth . Not sin .
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marvelloustime

charity

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2017
3,234
3,192
113
75
UK
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Hi Chris:

If the OP was talking about our position in
Christ (or stranding as you wrote) then I agree 100% God sees us as only perfect! sin is no longer seen for Jesus paid for all our sins and they are already judicially removed from us.
Hello @Ronald Nolette,

Yes, our 'standing' before God is sure, for it is based on His promises in Christ Jesus. The righteousness of God has been imputed to us, in Christ Jesus: He has declared us to be 'not guilty'; for the penalty for our sin has been paid by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

mailmandan

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2020
4,357
4,647
113
The Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hello @Ronald Nolette,

Yes, our 'standing' before God is sure, for it is based on His promises in Christ Jesus. The righteousness of God has been imputed to us, in Christ Jesus: He has declared us to be 'not guilty'; for the penalty for our sin has been paid by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Amen and again I say AMEN! :woohoo!:
 
  • Like
Reactions: charity

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
14,031
8,059
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Finally!

Someone who quotes scripture!

So let’s look at it brother:

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” (John 10:27-28)

The conditions of the promise are in bold underline.

#1. Hear his voice:

“…sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.” (John 5:14)

#2. Follow him:

“…Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:” (1 Peter 2:21-22)

Following in his steps of suffering we accomplish this mind blowing feat:

“Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.” (1 Peter 4:1-2)

If they IGNORE Him and follow someone else they CAN perish!
I truly fear for you

What you call as requirements. The scripture calls end results

It says me sheep HEAR MY VOICE (results)

it does not say they MIGHT hear my voice (requirment)

It says they WILL follow me (result)

not they might follow me (requirment)

It then says he gives them eternal life (result)

Not that he might give them eternal life, or a better term would be called conditional life (requirement)

It says they WILL never perish (result)

not that they MAY not perish

And it finally says that no man can pluck them from his hands..

it does not say a man (themselves) may pluck themselved out of his hands (which would be impossible)

You are tryign to earn your salvation. You mock the cross and all there is in it. And you reject grace.
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
12,236
3,594
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You can stop hearing Him, and you can stop following Him at some point if you do not:

“…continue in the faith grounded and settled” (Colossians 1:23)
And He will never leave you or forsake you! You are dead and your life is hid! God has perfected forever those who He is sanctifying. You think you are already sanctified because you are under the delusion you don't sin, so I guess god hasn't perfected you yet!
My position is the biblical position:
Almost. Just off by two letters. Yours s is the UNbiblical position.
You promote, whether YOU realize it or not, continuing in sin (to whatever degree convenient for you).

If you knew anything about me you would realize how moronic you are sounding right now with your false accusation (you just broke a commandment!)
 
  • Like
Reactions: mailmandan

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
12,236
3,594
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Ronald Nolette

Do you realize that your position puts the God of the Bible under an unrighteous light?

If it were true, that man could not stop sinning (as nearly every poster in this threads suggests), you make God out to be an unjust God who kills and slaughters people incapable of obeying his commandments:

“And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.” (Ezekiel 9:4-6)

But of course the true God of the Bible is just.

So it’s the doctrine of ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED that’s at fault here, not the God of the Bible!
Men can stop sinning! If they live 24/7 in the Spirit and never give into teh lusts of human flesh! However no man has achieved this for a lifetime and never will. that is why God besides being perfect, holy, righteou, just, is also compassionate, merciful and gracious.

Jesus died to pay for our sins- so even sins uncommiteted have already been paid for! YOu reject the mercy of god by saying man should never sin.

1 JOhn 1:9 is for believers.

And you should beware:
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
have not sinned is the perfect active indicative which means an action started in the past continues to day and into the future.

by sayi9ng you lead a sinless life, you make god a liar and the truth is not in you!
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
12,236
3,594
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So apparently you don’t realize what you’re promoting.

It’s no false accusation.

I didn’t say you KNEW…
Yes I know what I am promoting and it is not the lie you are accusing me of. Once again you have a conclusion and anyone who does not fit into your tiny little misapplication of Scripture, you paint with a broad brush without actually bothering to do some research on the person! Guys like you are a nickel a dozen.

1. YOu are a pharisee
2. YOU are legalistic.
3. You reject the finished work of the cross.
4. You reinterpret the Scriptures out of context
5. Worst of all you are the poster child of the ones who John warned about in 1 John 1:10
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
12,236
3,594
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Calm down @Ronald Nolette

Calm down.

You’re emotional and irrational right now.
No you pretend to be a mind and soul reader??????? Is there no end to you r arrogance! No I am calm and cool and collected despite what you are pretending to think you know of my emotional state.
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
14,691
5,970
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
“…sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.” (John 5:14)

Jesus was talking to Jews under the Law, in your verse.
No Americans, Russians, Africans, French, or...>> born again<<< in the verse as there was no Christ on the Cross yet given for the "sin of the World".