Stranger said:
I didn't say anything about a pre-trib rapture in post #293. I said 'you acknowledge a rapture where believers meet the Lord in the air'. Correct? So, do you?
I can speak for BofL for we are one in doctrine. There is no rapture, it's an invention from the 1800's and a twist of 2 verses.
How do you identify the faithful at the Second Coming of Christ as meeting Him in the air, when at the Second Coming He comes back to earth. And at the Second Coming when Christ divides the goat and sheep nations on the earth to enter the kingdom. They are not 'in the air'.
The sheep and the goats are divided in heaven. One on His right, and one on His left.
Sorry, but I am in the Catholic Church. That is the universal Church of Jesus Christ. I am just not Roman Catholic. And, by the way, even your 'Roman Church' sees me as part of the Church. Correct? So, who are you to tell me I am not part of the Catholic Church?
You are part of the Catholic Church, you are just a separated community.
817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:
Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271
818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272
819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276
820 "Christ bestowed unity on his Church from the beginning. This unity, we believe, subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose, and we hope that it will continue to increase until the end of time."277 Christ always gives his Church the gift of unity, but the Church must always pray and work to maintain, reinforce, and perfect the unity that Christ wills for her. This is why Jesus himself prayed at the hour of his Passion, and does not cease praying to his Father, for the unity of his disciples: "That they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be one in us, . . . so that the world may know that you have sent me."278 The desire to recover the unity of all Christians is a gift of Christ and a call of the Holy Spirit.279
CCC
Again, is (2 Cor. 5:10) a judgment of rewards or not?
It's a judgment of what we have done in this life, both good and bad. Rewards come after purification, if required, so this verse has nothing to do with rewards.
Is (1Cor.3:11-15) a judgment of rewards or not? How is this 'purgatory' when it is works that are burned and not the believer?
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble:
13 Every man's work shall be manifest: for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire: and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon: he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.
You are trying to say the believer is not burned but shall suffer loss at the same time. That doesn't make sense. BTW, fire is a metaphor for purification.
1 Cor. 3:15 – “if any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” The phrase for "suffer loss" in the Greek is "zemiothesetai." The root word is "zemioo" which also refers to punishment. The construction “zemiothesetai” is used in Ex. 21:22 and Prov. 19:19 which refers to punishment (from the Hebrew “anash” meaning “punish” or “penalty”). Hence, this verse proves that there is an expiation of temporal punishment after our death, but the person is still saved. This cannot mean heaven (there is no punishment in heaven) and this cannot mean hell (the possibility of expiation no longer exists and the person is not saved).
Again, if the Great White Throne Judgment is the 'General judgment' what is the judgment that took place 1000 years before. (Rev. 20:4-6)
Time does not exist in heaven. One day is like a thousand years so it isn't wise to take it literally.
And if the Great White Throne judgment doesn't take place on heaven or earth, (Rev. 20:11), what is the judgment in the air of (1Cor.3 and 5).
1.Cor 8 Now he who planteth, and he who watereth, are one. *And every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
Notice it doesn't say, "each man shall receive his own reward according to his imputed righteousness."
And, what is the judgment of the sheep and goat nations on the earth. (Matt. 25:32)
34 Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand (sheep): Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 *For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat: (good works) I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink: (good works) I was a stranger, and you took me in:(good works)
36 Naked, and you clothed me
good works) *sick, and you visited megood works) I was in prison, and you came to me.(good works)
I. THE PARTICULAR JUDGMENT
1021 Death puts an end to human life as the time open to either accepting or rejecting the divine grace manifested in Christ.592 The New Testament speaks of judgment primarily in its aspect of the final encounter with Christ in his second coming, but also repeatedly affirms that each will be rewarded immediately after death in accordance with his works and faith. The parable of the poor man Lazarus and the words of Christ on the cross to the good thief, as well as other New Testament texts speak of a final destiny of the soul--a destiny which can be different for some and for others.593
1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification594 or immediately,595 -- or immediate and everlasting damnation.596
At the evening of life, we shall be judged on our love.597
footnotes
591 OCF, Prayer of Commendation.
592 Cf. 2 Tim 1:9-10.
593 Cf. Lk 16:22; 23:43; Mt 16:26; 2 Cor 5:8; Phil 1:23; Heb 9:27; 12:23.
594 Cf. Council of Lyons II (1274)
S 857-858; Council of Florence (1439)
S 1304- 1306; Council of Trent (1563)
S 1820.
595 Cf. Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336)
S 1000-1001; John XXII, Ne super his (1334)
S 990.
596 Cf. Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336)
S 1002.
597 St. John of the Cross, Dichos 64.
V. THE LAST JUDGMENT
1038 The resurrection of all the dead, "of both the just and the unjust,"623 will precede the Last Judgment. This will be "the hour when all who are in the tombs will hear [the Son of man's] voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment."624 Then Christ will come "in his glory, and all the angels with him. . . . Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. . . . And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."625
1039 In the presence of Christ, who is Truth itself, the truth of each man's relationship with God will be laid bare.626 The Last Judgment will reveal even to its furthest consequences the good each person has done or failed to do during his earthly life:
All that the wicked do is recorded, and they do not know. When "our God comes, he does not keep silence.". . . he will turn towards those at his left hand: . . . "I placed my poor little ones on earth for you. I as their head was seated in heaven at the right hand of my Father - but on earth my members were suffering, my members on earth were in need. If you gave anything to my members, what you gave would reach their Head. Would that you had known that my little ones were in need when I placed them on earth for you and appointed them your stewards to bring your good works into my treasury. But you have placed nothing in their hands; therefore you have found nothing in my presence."627
1040 The Last Judgment will come when Christ returns in glory. Only the Father knows the day and the hour; only he determines the moment of its coming. Then through his Son Jesus Christ he will pronounce the final word on all history. We shall know the ultimate meaning of the whole work of creation and of the entire economy of salvation and understand the marvelous ways by which his Providence led everything towards its final end. The Last Judgment will reveal that God's justice triumphs over all the injustices committed by his creatures and that God's love is stronger than death.628
1041 The message of the Last Judgment calls men to conversion while God is still giving them "the acceptable time, . . . the day of salvation."629 It inspires a holy fear of God and commits them to the justice of the Kingdom of God. It proclaims the "blessed hope" of the Lord's return, when he will come "to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at in all who have believed."630
footnotes
625 Mt 25:31,32,46.
626 Cf. Jn 12:49.
627 St. Augustine, Sermo 18, 4
L 38,130-131; cf. Ps 50:3.
628 Cf. Song 8:6.
629 2 Cor 6:2.
630 Titus 2:13; 2 Thess 1:10.
Purgatory is not about paying the penalty of sin. Jesus on the Cross pays the penalty of our sin -- which is death. Those in purgatory are not in spiritual death; they are all headed to heaven.
Purgatory pays for the "consequences" of our sin, not for the sin itself.
For example, if I throw a rock through your window I have committed a sin. I can become sorry for my sin and go to Confession and be absolved of that sin. Jesus paid the price for my sin. But......... the window is STILL broken. The broken window is the "consequence" of my sin and it still needs to be repaired.
The Cross does not repair the window, that is my responsibility.
Thus, one of the aspects of purgatory is to pay for all the "broken windows" in our life that we did not get around to paying for during our life on earth.
As to why Purgatory? The answer is love. We cannot enter heaven unless we are perfected and totally holy. God wants us to be with Him. "Covered sin" doesn't cut it. While we may die in a state of grace most of us are probably not perfect. Purgatory is a place of perfection. It purges the imperfections from us
'til what is left is pure gold.
1 Corinthians 3:12-15 is a great definition of Purgatory
In other words, how well we lived our lives as Christians will be judged, the good works and not-so-good works will be judged.
The not-so-good works are the wood, hay, and straw that will burn up in the purging. The good works are the gold, silver, and precious stone that will survive the purging.
We cannot enter heaven with works that can be consumed. We must enter heaven only with works to our credit that can survive the fire. Thus God, who loves us so, provides a way for us to rid ourselves of the wood, hay, and straw in our lives so that we can enter heaven perfect and holy.
Again, this is NOT about purging sin, it is about purging the consequences of sin (paying for the broken windows) and about purging our imperfections in living the Christ-life.
Some Protestants call this the "Judgment Seat of Christ". Our salvation is not being judged here, rather how well we lived our life for Christ is being judged. While some Evangelicals refer to this as Judgment Seat of Christ and Catholics call it Purgatory, it is the same thing.
Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” The word “opponent” (antidiko) is likely a reference to the devil (see the same word for devil in 1 Pet. 5:8) who is an accuser against man (c.f. Job 1.6-12; Zech. 3.1; Rev. 12.10), and God is the judge. If we have not adequately dealt with satan and sin in this life, we will be held in a temporary state called a prison, and we won’t get out until we have satisfied our entire debt to God. This “prison” is purgatory where we will not get out until the last penny is paid.
Luke 16:19-31 - in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are deprived from God's graces for all eternity. So where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.
Rev. 21:4 - God shall wipe away their tears, and there will be no mourning or pain, but only after the coming of the new heaven and the passing away of the current heaven and earth. Note the elimination of tears and pain only occurs at the end of time. But there is no morning or pain in heaven, and God will not wipe away their tears in hell. These are the souls experiencing purgatory.
